What Is The Best Ces Device Out There?

13

Comments

  • Glenn,


     


    I typically use subDelta and gamma sessions ranging in length of 20 minutes to 1 hour.


     


    I use the subDelta before bed to enable me to get the most out of whatever sleep I get and gamma in the morning or when I want a mental boost.


     


    While certainly subjective, I've worked this into my life, so this seems worthwhile to me.


     


    The Oasis Pro does not have a continuous frequency control.  Its frequencies operate more as step functions.  Each step oscillates within a set range.  One can certainly create custom sessions that incorporate various frequency range steps for different lengths of time.


     


    I do recommend the device.  I want to do a lot more with it.  I plan to try running 100 HZ while doing Heart Math.


     


    This might present a problem if the emWave2's ear clip pulse monitor interferes with the CES frequency.  I've actually thought to contact Heart Math to see if they have or can recommend a finger pulse monitor to pair it with the device.


     


    I also, very much want to begin using the devices tDCS capability.  My major hesitation being, I have yet to find clear and concise information on electrode placement matched to anticipated affects.  


     


    If anyone has such information, please let me/everyone else know.

  • Glenn GrantGlenn Grant Hack. Dev. Transcend.

    Cool, definitely sounds useful to me! Looks like I will order one as soon as I hear back from the rep methinks :)


     


    Have you (or are you willing to) make your sessions available online at all? Would be interesting as a starting ground.


  • Glenn,


     


    Certainly willing to share sessions, just a bit logistically cumbersome for me.  The sessions software only runs on Windows and I run both my business and life on Macs.  I've got to actually borrow a Windows machine to load the software and update my device.  Still, I can likely come up with a way to do it.

  • Glenn GrantGlenn Grant Hack. Dev. Transcend.

    Glenn,


     


    Certainly willing to share sessions, just a bit logistically cumbersome for me.  The sessions software only runs on Windows and I run both my business and life on Macs.  I've got to actually borrow a Windows machine to load the software and update my device.  Still, I can likely come up with a way to do it.


     


     


    Yeah, that's fair enough. Have you thought of running windows under parallels/vmware, or as a dualboot with bootcamp?


     


    Got this back from Phil from Elixa yesterday, thought people looking to buy an Oasis Pro in the future may find it useful:


     


    Just got this from mfg:


     

     



    We just modified an OASIS device with 2X firmware for a customer.



     



    Dave programmed the unit so that the Icons would accurately portray the type of sessions.  Example, when you select Alpha, you will actually get alpha from 9 – 11 Hz, not 18 -22 Hz.



     



    The original OASIS Pro sessions have been modified so that they run at the original frequencies.



     



    He created a Gamma session which was installed in the User Designed  +1 slot.    This session runs at 38 – 42 Hz for 20 minutes.  When this session is running the B2 and 100 Hz icons will both be lit up to indicate that it is a Gamma session.  (Please see the attached revised Icon list)



     



    Using the Session Editor you can program from 0 to 50.8 Hz.


     


     


    Ordered mine (frequency doubled, TDCS, session editor) Pretty excited!


  • Glenn -- Great news.  I think I'll send mine back and have it reprogrammed.  Thanks for the info.


  • kuzia60kuzia60
    edited March 2013



    Andreas, here is a torrent with research on TDCS. Lots of good information: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7138060/tDCS


    Also, here is a assembly of people on reddit with the same ideas: www.reddit.com/r/tDCS/




    Ilya


  • Glenn GrantGlenn Grant Hack. Dev. Transcend.



    Andreas, here is a torrent with research on TDCS. Lots of good information: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7138060/tDCS


    Also, here is a assembly of people on reddit with the same ideas: www.reddit.com/r/tDCS/




    Ilya


     


    Cool torrent, shall have to check it out!


     


     


    Also, for anyone with a frequency doubled device, here are the sessions I was given with mine (asjusted to take the doubling into account)


    NB: These will not work as expected if your device is not frequency doubled. I take no responsibility, etc etc. You've been warned.


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qyfk3hyys3qezt4/Oasis%20Pro%20x2%20Sessions.zip

  • Glenn -- Many thanks for posting the sessions from your new device.  I'll examine these more closely over the next couple of days. 


     


    A question about the response you received from Mind Alive, especially:


     


    "Dave programmed the unit so that the Icons would accurately portray the type of sessions."


     


    Do you understand this to mean that: given a 2X frequency firmware modification, Dave at Mind Alive has supplied you with a full complement of sessions renamed and then shifted to their appropriate memory slots in the device so that the Icons align properly?  


     


    I think this makes sense and would provide the easiest way to do all of this.  If so, one could simply upload all of your sessions to any 2X modified device and essentially have the same functionality.


     


    I rather doubt that Dave reprogrammed the icons on the device if you take my meaning.   Just checking, managing an altered device on one's own does have drawbacks.  If Mind Alive has made this easier to address the needs of members of this forum, what a great thing.


  • AndreasAndreas ✭✭
    edited March 2013

    kuzia60 -- I have come across both the sites you recommended on tDCS over the past few months.  I've found them interesting, but not user friendly.  I still don't see in them (or anywhere else I've found) a simple listing of:


     


    locations for electrodes,


    expected affects, and


    timing of sessions to optimize the affects.


     


    One can readily find such a list for CES use.  I've posted one on this forum (maybe even early in this very thread).  We know what  subDelta generally does.  We know what gamma generally does.  We know what 100 hz generally does.


     


    I just haven't found a clear listing of tDCS electrode placement that provides the same level, clarity, and synthesis of information.

  • Glenn GrantGlenn Grant Hack. Dev. Transcend.

    Glenn -- Many thanks for posting the sessions from your new device.  I'll examine these more closely over the next couple of days. 


     


    A question about the response you received from Mind Alive, especially:


     


    "Dave programmed the unit so that the Icons would accurately portray the type of sessions."


     


    Do you understand this to mean that: given a 2X frequency firmware modification, Dave at Mind Alive has supplied you with a full complement of sessions renamed and then shifted to their appropriate memory slots in the device so that the Icons align properly?  


     


    I think this makes sense and would provide the easiest way to do all of this.  If so, one could simply upload all of your sessions to any 2X modified device and essentially have the same functionality.


     


    I rather doubt that Dave reprogrammed the icons on the device if you take my meaning.   Just checking, managing an altered device on one's own does have drawbacks.  If Mind Alive has made this easier to address the needs of members of this forum, what a great thing.


     


     


    Yeah, the way I understand that is he remade the sessions taking into account the doubled frequency, and made sure they lined up with the right lights. So in theory, anyone installing those sessions I posted would get the same effect.

  • AndreasAndreas ✭✭
    edited March 2013

    Glenn -- Great!  You've hugely simplified my life and my brain hacking.  If you ever make your way to NYC, I spot you dinner.


  • Glenn GrantGlenn Grant Hack. Dev. Transcend.

    Hehe, no worries :) Just glad to help out!


  • Hehe, no worries :) Just glad to help out!


     


     


    @ Glenn Grant


    I have had a doubled frequency DAVID delight Pro for a few months now  and have used the session editor to program various sessions. When I do this I have to program each point in the editor to be half the frequency I want to receive when running the device. Does the session editor you were provided with require the same of you, or if you program 30 hz is the output 30 hz?  You also posted that you were told "Using the Session Editor you can program from 0 to 50.8 Hz." Is it correct to interpret this as, meaning your device can be programmed anywhere from 0 to 50.8 hz? With my current setup I am limited on the lower end and do not have the ability of the full subdelta range. 


     


    @Andreas You also do not have the ability to access the full subdelta range, correct? Have you contacted mind alive about  modifying your device or the session editor to give you full use of the  0 to 50.8 hz range?

  • @zieman93  -- Really best to just call up Mind Alive and ask them these questions.  That said, I believe subDelta as well as 100hz get driven by different frequency generators than the core frequencies.  I also seem to remember that subDelta alternates the positive and negative poles.  Within the core frequencies, a doubled device can not go down to zero hz.  The session editor can only play the available frequencies it has no means to add to the range of frequencies.


  • Glenn GrantGlenn Grant Hack. Dev. Transcend.

    @ Glenn Grant


    I have had a doubled frequency DAVID delight Pro for a few months now  and have used the session editor to program various sessions. When I do this I have to program each point in the editor to be half the frequency I want to receive when running the device. Does the session editor you were provided with require the same of you, or if you program 30 hz is the output 30 hz?  You also posted that you were told "Using the Session Editor you can program from 0 to 50.8 Hz." Is it correct to interpret this as, meaning your device can be programmed anywhere from 0 to 50.8 hz? With my current setup I am limited on the lower end and do not have the ability of the full subdelta range. 


     


    @Andreas You also do not have the ability to access the full subdelta range, correct? Have you contacted mind alive about  modifying your device or the session editor to give you full use of the  0 to 50.8 hz range?


     


     


     


    I don't believe my session editor is any different to the others, though I haven't actually installed/played with it yet (they preloaded the modified frequencies on mine, so I haven't needed to yet)


    I also remember reading somewhere (earlier in this thread?) that someone else with a frequency doubled device said that their lower frequencies seemed to not be modified, so they could still hit the 0.1hz subdelta. Don't quote me on that though.

  • kuzia60kuzia60
    edited March 2013

    kuzia60 -- I have come across both the sites you recommended on tDCS over the past few months.  I've found them interesting, but not user friendly.  I still don't see in them (or anywhere else I've found) a simple listing of:


     


    locations for electrodes,


    expected affects, and


    timing of sessions to optimize the affects.


     


    One can readily find such a list for CES use.  I've posted one on this forum (maybe even early in this very thread).  We know what  subDelta generally does.  We know what gamma generally does.  We know what 100 hz generally does.


     


    I just haven't found a clear listing of tDCS electrode placement that provides the same level, clarity, and synthesis of information.




    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    All of that information is in the research papers. There is no database that has aggregated that information, but that info is in the torrent.


    The location for electrodes are according to the http://www.jneuroengrehab.com/content/figures/1743-0003-7-24-1-l.jpg . I do not remember what this protocol is called, but it is in the research.


    The research papers, usually in the methodology section, will include how the experiment was done. This will include, the size of the electrodes, the salinity of the saline solution, the placement of the electrodes, the duration of stimulation, the amount of current, etc. Different placements on the head will produce different results. If you are running it in cathode or anode, will make a difference. Its probably a good idea to integrate all of the experiments that have already been done, to save time, and to make the process more efficient. There is no need to make mistakes that have already been made. 


    Ilya


  • @kuzia60 -- You make my point precisely.  No readily available abstract or organization of the most essential information seems to exist.  Happy to contribute to compiling it, but not certain I have the time to take on doing all of it myself.


     


    Links to mountains of information don't help, unless we start a kind of crowd sourced effort.


     


    Anyone up for it?


  • Andreas, Im down. We can make a document that will have these fields: Electrode size, electrode position, Salinity of the solution, duration of use, effect achieved, cathode or anode, device used, amount of current.


    Can you think of any other fields that would be relevant?


     


    It would be cool to make a how-to guide for this technology.


    We can split up the research in the torrent. If we have 3-4 people, we can synthesize that information rather quickly. 


    Let me know if you want to do this. 


    Ilya


  • Ilya -- Now we have two.   Let's see if we get some other volunteers.  I'd recommend adding a link to the original source of the information.  Later on we might want to add a few fields in which users of such a list might add feedback or even a survey of their experiences with the various settings.


     


    Best,


    A


  • Hey guys. I am new to the forum, but have been following this one close for the past few days as i have been interested in purchasing the Oasis Pro. I spoke with a lady named Carol yesterday and talked them into selling me the Pro with the tDCS kit also. I was able to get the gamma frequency add on for 50$ too. However, she gave me some "required reading" and a waiver to sign before i am able to order my unit.


     


    Andreas: like you mentioned i have not been able to find a user friendly guide for tDCS. The little bit of info I have gathered has led me to believe that an understanding of the Brodmann Area Chart of the brain along with an understading of the functions of these areas would be of great help. I am very inerested in figuring this out so i can improve my cognitive/learning ability and i plan on putting some time into this. So, count me in on helping to gather information.


  • kuzia60kuzia60
    edited March 2013

    Does anyone else want to help Andreas and I parse this information into something that is an easy to use guide?


    If so, please let us know in this forum. It would be awesome to make all of this information accessible to a lot of people, quickly. 


    Andreas, I think a link to the original source of information is a great idea. I think a way to accomplish that would be to add "research paper title" (so it will be easy to find on google and in the academic databases), and "date published" as a field. We can potentially make this an editable google docs file that people can add to when new research comes out. The survey is also a good idea. It would be cool to have all of the people trying the different protocols, with the exact specifications provided in the protocol, to write down the effects they observed. They should have a control session (where they try to do things before they started using TDCS) We should have a way to quantify these things. Sites like quantifiedmind come to mind, but there should also be more "practical" effects to quantify. We can figure that out as we go. 


    I would be willing to get started on this project on Wednesday. 


    Ilya


  • NShucet, thanks for the help!


    Ilya


  • Looks like we have some momentum.  


     


    Ilya -- following from your ideas, maybe we can include a couple of fields for each entry to suggest specific tests which would help people evaluate the different protocols.  Quantified mind has a variety of them.  Various IQ tests.  N-back performance.  Probably lots of others.  


     


    We couple also start a thread on this forum for specific reporting of subjective experiences and observations.  Not as organized or structured but likely useful if we give some thought to tagging things properly.


     


    A simple Google doc spreadsheet can get us started.  Down the road maybe we port things to a database structure.


     


    Starting to give this all more thought.


     


    This gets interesting.


     


    A


  • What do you guys think of using the EEG 10/20 model to ensure proper placement of the anode and cathode? I found an intructional manual on how to do this:http://www.trans-cranial.com/local/manuals/10_20_pos_man_v1_0_pdf.pdf

  • Andreas, Nshucet, how about we organize a google hangout to figure out exactly what we need to do, who will do it, and when we want it done by. Shoot me a message so we can coordinate this whole process. Im pretty excited, it should not be too much work and we will be able to produce a really usable document.


    Ilya


  • hzahza ✭✭
    edited March 2013

    I'd like to get in on this too.  My interest is using tDCS while studying Chinese character/vocabulary flash cards to see how it affects retention.  I've been making my own cards and studying them for the last 10 years, but the most individual characters I've been able to stuff into my head at any given time is about 2500, and if I slack off on the study, I lose a lot of it, maybe even close to half.


     


    It's been difficult trying to choose a device to go with, because naturally I want the broadest range of functionality I can get (full delta-gamma CES and tDCS), but the device that Nshucet describes sounds like what I want.  Is that with the frequencies doubled, or will it still go down all the way to 1 Hz?  Of course, it's essential that the company waive whatever restrictions there are on the tDCS functions.  


     


    I'd also be willing to help compiling a user's guide if I'm able to contribute there.  I'm generally pretty good about writing in clear and simple language, but I have to understand what I'm talking about, and so far I'm still a little too new to this territory.  


     


    Have to buy a device first, too.  I'll contact the Oasis people soon, maybe after work today.


  • hza: the way i got them to sell me the tDSC device was to let them know i had good knowledge on where to place the electrodes. they wanted me to read the tDSC article on the mind alive website and also watch a a video that the producer, Dave Seiger, had put up. There are a few videos on youtube also. I actually spent probably eight hours studying this subject before i signed the waiver. I ended up telling them that i thought if i used a Brodmann Area Chart with and EEG 10/20 measurment chart that i would be able to use it properly. They tried to hook me up with neurofeedback practitoners in my area, but i just told them that I wasnt interested in seeing a practitioner and that I knew i was capable of using the device correctly. So they will sell it you, but you just have to show them that you do the proper research on how to use it.


     


    The gamma function is now availble in addition to the other functions. So the device will keep all of its regular functions, but have the gamma added on. From what i saw on the internet this device offers the broadest range of functions.


  • hzahza ✭✭

    hza: the way i got them to sell me the tDSC device was to let them know i had good knowledge on where to place the electrodes. they wanted me to read the tDSC article on the mind alive website and also watch a a video that the producer, Dave Seiger, had put up. There are a few videos on youtube also. I actually spent probably eight hours studying this subject before i signed the waiver. I ended up telling them that i thought if i used a Brodmann Area Chart with and EEG 10/20 measurment chart that i would be able to use it properly. They tried to hook me up with neurofeedback practitoners in my area, but i just told them that I wasnt interested in seeing a practitioner and that I knew i was capable of using the device correctly. So they will sell it you, but you just have to show them that you do the proper research on how to use it.


     


    The gamma function is now availble in addition to the other functions. So the device will keep all of its regular functions, but have the gamma added on. From what i saw on the internet this device offers the broadest range of functions.




     


    Sounds like the best device available, then.  Guess I'd better spend some time reading up on the basics.  I downloaded a bundle of tDCS articles from the mindalive site, including one on safety issues.  That's probably a good place to start; that and YouTube.  

  • I recently received a series of emails from Mind Alive (makers of the Oasis Pro CES device).  They included all of the reprogrammed sessions for a 2X device, and more:


     


    "There is also a revised  2X firmware.  On this revision,  the  B2 and 100 Hz icons will light up when a gamma session is detected.


    As well the icons will light up according to the session.  Ie alpha icons for alpha sessions.


     


    If you are interested in the revised 2X firmware, we will upgrade it for you at no extra charge. "


     


    (emphasis mine)


     


    So they have done some firmware changes in response to the interest of people on this forum as well as rewriting the sessions.  


     


    I have to say I see this as a "stand up" thing to do.  They had no obligation to send the sessions or offer the new firmware at no charge.


    They really seem to want to distribute this technology and do some good in the world.


    Nice to have them around.


     


    I sent them my device last Friday, they made the 2X firmware changes, installed all the new sessions, and had the device back to me by 10 AM Tuesday morning.  For good measure they included a new battery.


     


    Doesn't get better than that. 

  • So I am one week in to using my CES and tDCS and I must say that I have seen no benefits. Does anyone have any specific experience with improving sleep or improving studying skills? I am kinda feeling like I wasted almost 700$ and will probably return it after another week if I don't see any improvement
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