Bulletproof Coffee / Slow Carb Hyrbid? Please Help!

Hey everyone!  


 


I need to lose 20lbs of fat in the next 6 weeks (or else I lose a bet and $500 goes to the Westboro baptist Church...yikes!).


 


I am thinking of doing the bulletproof coffee in the morning as I tend not to have much of an appetite in the a.m anyway.  Then having slow carb meals in the afternoon and evening (before fasting post-dinner, per the BP diet).


 


I think this hybrid approach might work for me because I know that once a week, I will still be going out for a bunch of drinks with friends, so I kinda need that "chest day" available to me. 


 


My question is this:  Will having the BP coffee in the morning help maximize fat loss even when having Slow Carb meals later in the day (and one binge day per week)??


 


Thanks in advance for your help, everyone!  I don't want to lose this bet!! :)


 


-Mike


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Comments

  • PARKERPARKER
    edited April 2014

    Praise the Lord!  That's a pretty tall order IMO.   You might end up lighter one way or another.


  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited April 2014

    BPC in the morning and Slow Carb at night worked for me, until it didn't. I lost ~15lbs on slow carb alone, then another ~10 doing what you described. But then plateaued and started gaining. So beans seem to work, until they don't. If you are >30% body fat, I think you should be able to do this, but I'd add in some high intensity interval training after the coffee and well before you break your fast. You can also make adjustments with less butter in the coffee, but keep 1tbsp of MCT. This should kickstart fat-burning for the day, but not provide energy from the butter for the entirety of your fast, hopefully forcing you to turn to body fat. Whatever you do, separate the coffee from the carbs, you don't want to elevate your insulin while drinking fatty coffee. 


     


    However, pay attention to how you're feeling and carb intake: I did daily hill sprints with very low carb (less beans) and saw results for 3 weeks, then crashed because I was too low-carb. The only way to fix it is to eat high carb for days, gaining like 5 pounds in the process. So back off the intensity near the end of the week, and make sure your cheat day is also high in usable carbs. E.g. drinking + pasta dinner is probably not going to replenish your carbs properly, as your body will be busy with the alcohol and perhaps the gluten. Get all the carbs you need in and digested, ideally from clean sources, before you drink. Then after the cheat day, do plenty of exercise to get back to fat burning ASAP. Minor changes like letting your Saturday cheat day bleed into Friday night or Sunday morning will have a bigger negative impact than you'd expect. 


     


    Your rate of fat burn may slow as your body fat decreases, so unless you are ahead of schedule at two weeks from the deadline, look into weight cutting techniques and find a nearby sauna. (Unless you are actually measuring body fat for this bet with a reliable system like DEXA, in which case I personally would add sketchy drugs if I was not on schedule two weeks out.) 


  • Thanks so much for the thorough reply!!


     


    Fortunately we're not measuring fat loss, so if it comes down to it, I can do some sketchy dehydration technique just before weigh-ins.  With that being said, I really do want to lose some pounds, so I'd love to find a good short term fix that I can leverage into a sustainable long-term approach.  I'm actually doing the bodpod test for my own knowledge/tracking down in Weymouth (I live not far from you, in Cambridge), but the weigh in is just straight pounds.


     


    So, taking into account your advice, here is my plan going forward:


     


    Regular days:


     


    Wake up (about 10am, each day), have a bulletproof coffee with 1tbs butter and MCT


    Interval training for 15-20 minutes every day, 5x/week Sun-Thur, take it easy on friday to prepare for cheat day on saturday. 


    Break the fast with a slow-carb meal in the afternoon


    Slow carb dinner


    Lots of water


    PAGG stack, 6 days a week (including the drinking/cheat day)


     


    Saturday:


     


    Slow carb breakfast


    Slow carb lunch, maybe some good carbs (whole wheat or sweet potatoes?)


    Slow carb dinner and then the good times (many bad-for-you-drinks :))


     


    Sunday:


    Slow carb breakfast (because there will still be lots of insulin in blood from Saturday, presumably)


    Intense interval training session


    Regular slow carb eating


     


     


    Does that seem like a good plan?  Maybe I should add some fasting on Sunday night to get back into ketosis after saturday?


     


    Thanks SO much!!  Really appreciate the feedback!

  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    Have you done your "before" weight yet?


     


    If not, maybe you could do what you can to weigh more, like get really inflamed, don't poo, do a massive carb refeed, have a lot of water. That weight would go quickly, then add that to your above plan.


  • @Jason- so NO beans?  Wont I need some kind of carbs if Im doing intense interval exercise 5x a week?  Also, yes of course I could go for "no drinks", but Im being realistic and knowing that won't happen; trying to find a plan that works along with that. (kinda like that joke: you know how to avoid a hangover on New Years Day? Don't drink on NYE.  Well...of course, but thats not what Im after :) )


     


    @ Stevo - already weighed in, unfortunately.


  • edited April 2014

    Haha you're right, not drinking for 6 weeks DOES call into question my commitment level, but I have a trip to vegas in the middle of all this AND a best friend's wedding, soooo... its tough!  Besides that, Im not going to drink though... if that makes me seem any better/more committed :)


     


    The goal is actually to get in the best shape possible (losing as much fat in the process).  If Im not that close at the end, I'll straight up dehydrate myself if need be.  What Im looking for though, is the best balance of BPDiet and slow carb to burn fat, and put me on a really good track to get in the best possible shape after the bet ends.


     


    So Jason, Id love to get your feedback on doing the hybrid approach based on the circumstances.


     


    Also, Ill be back from the Vegas on 4/21, then I have the wedding on 4/26....would it make sense to just do straight sow carb until after the 26th, then do a month of balls-out-Bulletproof-diet?!


  • Would go full ketogenic a la John Kieffer with Carb Night Solution, following the BPD principles.


    http://carbnite.com/


     


    Would follow shockwave protocol "ripped" for CNS


    http://shockwaveprotocol.com/


     


    Would do


    • Hypercaloric with fats from butter and coconut oil, do not forget O3 and O6
    • Normal day:  BPC in the morning, non starchy carbs + proteins at noon, berries and proteins at night (all organic food, no protein shakes!)
    • Carb night: super hypercaloric: which for me start post workout 2pm and ends around 9pm, use leucine and hydrolysate, minimize fats

    Most importantly, get excellent sleep quality! Most of the body fat your body mobilizes is while sleeping.


     


    And be patient, if you're new to ketogenic and hypercaloric diets your body will compensate your previous hypocaloric diet by putting on mass. Once it knows calories're coming, it will drop BF fast!


     


    Good luck with your bet!


  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited April 2014


    Interval training for 15-20 minutes every day, 5x/week Sun-Thur, take it easy on friday to prepare for cheat day on saturday. 


    Break the fast with a slow-carb meal in the afternoon


    Slow carb dinner


    Lots of water


    PAGG stack, 6 days a week (including the drinking/cheat day)


     


    Saturday:


     


    Slow carb breakfast


    Slow carb lunch, maybe some good carbs (whole wheat or sweet potatoes?)


    Slow carb dinner and then the good times (many bad-for-you-drinks :))


     


    Sunday:


    Slow carb breakfast (because there will still be lots of insulin in blood from Saturday, presumably)


    Intense interval training session


    Regular slow carb eating


     


     


    Does that seem like a good plan?  Maybe I should add some fasting on Sunday night to get back into ketosis after saturday?




     




     


    I'm actually in Somerville, so even closer, I just wasn't specific on my profile. 


     


    So overall I'm with Jason, Bulletproof is better than Slow Carb. Carb refeeds with BP starches are better than cheat days with drinking. I've moved past Slow Carb and eliminated beans, I just carb-up after weight training and still do cheat days. As I said, the hybrid "worked until it didn't" - I lost fat for a while then gained some back without changing my diet, probably because I started having more issues with beans. Still adjusting my diet to fix that. But I was answering your question, and I did have significant fat loss for a while on slow carb, then more on a hybrid, until it stopped working. Also, it's hard to switch to being super strict quickly, and slow carb is a middle ground. It also helps avoid those "off-the-wagon" moments, where if you're being super strict, one slip-up means you go nuts. With slow carb and cheat days, one slip up triggers "don't keep going, save it for cheat day."


     


    Coming off of a standard diet the beans will make you feel full and their "slow carb" nature means that they will be converted to sugar slower and hopefully not spike insulin. They certainly have their issues though - lectins and poor digestion. By the way when I first went slow carb, I did have some serious cravings. Moderate dark chocolate and nuts worked wonders - even like 5 almonds had a big impact on cravings. Just don't overdo it, and never go to the grocery store hungry. 


     


    As for what you wrote:


     


    When I first added interval training, I definitely had to chill out a little by Thursday and Friday.


     


    If you decide to go the cheat day route, I wouldn't have slow-carb lunches and dinners. The cheat day concept is to satisfy your cravings and get them out of your system. That said Tim's "preventing fat gain when you binge" tactics did seem to work for me on cheat days. Fructose/grapefruit, cinnamon, and even Cissus Quadrangularis have an impact for me, as well as the brief Glut-4 workouts he suggests before and after cheat day meals. 


     


    Whole wheat is still not a "good carb" but if you don't plan to eliminate gluten, may as well keep it in if you are doing a real "cheat" day rather than a carb refeed. 


     


    I don't think you'd still have elevated insulin on Sunday morning, unless you do something like order a pizza at 4am after staying out on Saturday night. If you're worried about it just do the glut-4 workout before BPC. 


     


    By the way, if/when you do drink alcohol, I personally find I get more drunk from less alcohol after spending time in ketosis, and had to be careful about that at first. Fat burners are cheaper dates I guess. 


  • edited April 2014

    Thanks again to everyone who has contributed! I really appreciate all the feedback!


     


    I did my pre-diet bodpod test today- The results:


     


    204.9 lbs


    30.6% body fat (holy geez!)


     


    The good news is I kinda went nuts with pizza and drinking all day right before the official weigh in, so my starting weight was 213.2.  That said, I definitely DO want to focus on burning off some of that 60lbs of fat in this body of mine! (crazy to think about it that way).


     


    So based on all of the feedback you've given me (thank you all, again!), here is my NEW plan (I still need some help with a few things, if you guys would be so kind):


     


    For the next two weeks (while Im still in vegas/party-mode):


     


    Stick to proteins and vegetables (no carbs, including beans)


    On drinking days - do all the "preventing fat gain when you binge" techniques, but try and keep all meals the same (protein and veggies)


    Bunches of water


    PAGG stack 6x/week


     


    Question 1: during these next few weeks, should I still do BPC in the mornings, even if its only for 3-4 days in a row?  From what I understand about ketosis, it takes the body a few days to get into it and start burning fat as fuel, so would it make sense to try and trigger ketosis here, when I know that Im going to be going nuts with carbs and such on the weekend (and might be risking putting all that fat back on?)?  


     


     


    From 4/27-5/21 - Post Vegas, Post Wedding - Time to Get Serious:


     


    BFC in the morning.


    Interval training Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Thursday (15-25 minutes) (days off Wed, Fri, Sat)


    Meals of only protein and veggies (lunch and dinner)


    Shit loads of water


    Still doing the PAGG stack


     


    Question 2: Should I incorporate carb refeeds in here somewhere?


     


     


    Thanks again everyone!  Ill be getting another Bod pod test half way through and then at the end, so I'll keep you all posted on the results!!


  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭

    Answer 1: I'm curious what others here say, but I think you could probably do BPC in the mornings. Certainly the MCT is fine, because it can't be stored as fat, only burned for energy. My understanding is that ketosis is defined as a state in which the body burns fat preferentially - but not the only state in which you can burn fat. Plenty of people have lost fat without being in ketosis. In fact that's true of anyone who's lost weight on the slow carb diet, and there are many of those people. If you don't have elevated insulin or fasting blood glucose over 100 (this should be on any normal blood test) you likely shouldn't store fat, but rather use it for energy. During that time, your body might tap into glycogen (stored sugar in the liver and muscles) to handle some tasks like brain function, but you can still burn fat. The "few days to get into ketosis" is because that's how long it should take to use up your glycogen stores, which is when things get more interesting biochemically and your body generates just enough glucose for certain areas of the brain and runs the rest on fat. That's my understanding and I'm pretty confident in it, but again I'm curious what others here say. 


     


    Answer 2: You should carb refeed once a week, and also maybe up carbs a tad once you start training. If you don't, your hunger and metabolic hormones will get out of whack and your body will do everything it can to hold onto fat stores because it thinks you're starving. For this reason, I believe you should carb refeed in the first two weeks also. Otherwise you'll be shocking your body quite a bit by changing diet and likely lower calories (addressed below,) then occasionally feeding it poison (alcohol) and going right back to the shocked state. Note that if you get dry eyes and sinuses, this is a sign that you don't have enough carbs to create mucous. Dry eyes and sinuses aren't a big deal, but your gut lining also requires mucous, and you won't notice that when it's being depleted. Depleting your gut lining = new food allergies = much more difficulty losing weight in the future, because now you're allergic to some of the healthy food you were using to lose weight. Carb up immediately if you get low mucous symptoms.


     


    Additional Point 3: There will be some carbs in your veggies, and perhaps a bit of fat in your protein, but probably not much. Don't forget to subtract fiber from carbs to get "net carbs" which basically means usable carbs. Carbs are calorically dense, so if you start eating only protein and veggies, it's likely that your caloric intake will be vastly lower than it has been, leading to all kinds of cravings. This is why the bulletproof diet includes plenty of fat. I get that you're trying to lose fat, so you could limit it, but I don't think anyone on here is thriving on just protein and veggies. Add a bit of fat, even if it's just a bit of grass fed butter on those veggies. The fat is also important for proper absorption of nutrients from the veggies. As carbs come down, fat should go up. You can play with the ratios, and separating the more fat from any remaining dense carb sources can be a good idea, but that carb to fat relationship is pretty solid. 


     


    General net carb guidelines: <50g net carbs daily leads to ketosis, requires carb refeeds once a week. >50-<100g carbs daily leads to fat loss without ketosis, probably requires carb refeeds. <150g carbs is probably slow weight loss, if the carbs aren't refined sugars or wheat, might be maintenance if you're sedentary. Probably doesn't require refeeds. These numbers vary person to person. They will also vary in the same person based on activity level and metabolic status. Again, fairly confident, but I welcome alternative viewpoints on those numbers. 


  • Awesome!  That is wicked helpful, thank you so much!


     


    Yes I will be adding grass fed butter into the meals as part of this plan (forgot to mention that, thanks!).  Good to know about the inverse-relationship-ratio for carbs/fat too!


     


    Re: "also maybe up carbs a tad once you start training"


    So do you think it would be enough/too much to have a small sweet potato with grass fed butter after my workouts 4x/week (to break my fast a few hours after my morning BPC), and still do the big carb refeed once/week? 


     


    I'd love to hear other people chime in on the BPC before poison-weekends too!


    As it stands right now, I'm planning to start the BPC this Sunday and do it for 4 days before going to Vegas (for 4 days- no BPC during that time, but excess poison), then start back again the following Tuesday (for 4 days) before stopping only on Saturday the 26th (day of the wedding).  After that, I'll be in hard-core mode. 


     


     


    Again, can't thank you guys enough!

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭


    So do you think it would be enough/too much to have a small sweet potato with grass fed butter after my workouts 4x/week (to break my fast a few hours after my morning BPC), and still do the big carb refeed once/week? 




     


    ---


     


    Yeah, see how you feel, you might even get away without the carbs during the week, might not. Intervals certainly burn glycogen, but what made me crash from low carb (I did get the lack of mucous thing going on) was intervals 4-5 per week, continue fasting after intervals, with weight training or kettlebell swings to max reps 2-3x per week later in the day, before breaking the fast. On probably 50-60g net carbs daily and caloric deficit. Good weight loss for the first 2 weeks though, then a huge gain when I had to carb up for days. 


     


    After the intervals your body will be primed to handle the carbs well without fat gain, the longer you wait after the intervals the less that's true, so you might want to skip the butter if your sweet potatoes aren't pre-cooked and ready soon after the workout. Sweet potatoes are a great choice, but they are not "slow carb" meaning they can spike insulin. Which is no problem immediately post-workout. 


     


    If you want to go in-depth with carbs, fats, and training, go to Jason Miller's "bulletproofing the athlete" thread in the athletic performance subforum. But that is a big can of worms, and also includes weight training. For this six week challenge I'd avoid building muscle since you're just using the scale to measure the 20lbs. 

  • Great, thank you!


     


    Not to get off topic, now that I feel pretty confident with my current plan, but I just came across this article: http://www.bulletproofexec.com/rapid-fat-loss-protocol/


     


    Don't know how I missed it before, but in any event, what would you guys think about taking this approach after the wedding when I've got 25 days of dedication and sobriety before weigh-in?


  • HazakinsHazakins Graveyard shift putting me in the Grave&#33;

    anyone have any tips on a food that you can chew, not just drink while doing the RFLP? Been doing it for a couple weeks but always fall off the wagon and eat a bunch of meat when I get home from my 12 hour graveyard.


    Trying to get a grasp on Ketosis? Watch this!

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited April 2014

    ^^Butter, somewhat frozen butter (chewier), and coffee beans (chewiest.) I don't think RFLP is supposed to be pleasant. 


     


    And Mickles, yes to what Jason said. RFLP + any real exercise seems like a great way to kill your adrenals. See how closely you can follow your diet intentions in the first two weeks, and if you can't follow them perfectly with planned breaks/drinking, I wouldn't try to do the RFLP. Alterations/hybrids of RFLP don't seem to work well from what I've read around here. 


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