Phenylpiracetam Experience, Help?

Second attempt at racetams. Feeling the exact opposite of what I hoped: slow, spacey, bordeline... sedated? Am extreeeeemely relaxed, in a way that's not necessarliy unpleasant - but "relaxed" is definitely not a feeling I need more of :/


 


I tried first dose of 100 mg (took a 4 hour nap). Today I went with 200 mg.


 


Before I give up, am wondering about choline. Might that be missing? Don't have a headache, but have experienced a few fascinating (!?!) sensations in my head/behind my sinuses. Like the release of a joint popping, but more intense and inside my head. Weird. Back of my neck is definitely tight. Maybe this counts as a headache?


 


Am hesitant on choline because I've had issues with depression (low dopamine/norepinephrine variety) and understand it can exacerbate depression issues. Am doing well now, but don't want to mess with it.


 


Have tried piracetam in the past to no effect.


 


I was Rx'd Nuvigil a few years ago and it was a game-changer for me, but wasn't sustainable. The extra cylinders weren't worth the crash.


 


Any suggestions on how to proceed?


 


thanks!


 


 


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Comments

  • What are your goals?  Why do you want to use drugs at all?  How do you measure yourself?  Telling us what you don't want isn't that helpful.


  • Sorry, I assumed most people on here are pretty well versed on why I might be taking something like phenylpiracetam.


     


    Specifically... I have a brain injury (prefrontal cortex). This results in, among other things, extremely poor execitive function, impaired mental stamina and what's essentially a VERY bad case of ADD. Years of rehab and various off-label trials (under the care of a neurologist) have taken me as far as they can. Until the Drs come up with new ideas, I'm looking for my own. I had a very good initial response to Nuvigil and have read many comparisons between it & the racetams. Figured it was worth trying.


     


    So yeah, this isn't recreational for me. I'm not a typical "bio-hacker". I'm trying to regain funciton - not hack my performance. How do I measure myself? In my case, it's usually very obvious what does and doesn't work.


     


    thanks for your help.



  • Second attempt at racetams. Feeling the exact opposite of what I hoped: slow, spacey, bordeline... sedated? Am extreeeeemely relaxed, in a way that's not necessarliy unpleasant - but "relaxed" is definitely not a feeling I need more of :/


     


    I tried first dose of 100 mg (took a 4 hour nap). Today I went with 200 mg.


     


    Before I give up, am wondering about choline. Might that be missing? Don't have a headache, but have experienced a few fascinating (!?!) sensations in my head/behind my sinuses. Like the release of a joint popping, but more intense and inside my head. Weird. Back of my neck is definitely tight. Maybe this counts as a headache?


     


    Am hesitant on choline because I've had issues with depression (low dopamine/norepinephrine variety) and understand it can exacerbate depression issues. Am doing well now, but don't want to mess with it.


     


    Have tried piracetam in the past to no effect.


     


    I was Rx'd Nuvigil a few years ago and it was a game-changer for me, but wasn't sustainable. The extra cylinders weren't worth the crash.


     


    Any suggestions on how to proceed?


     


    thanks!




    =======


     


    The sinus and pressure issue is probably a sign of choline. Strangely it is sometimes a sign that you need more and sometimes a sign you have too much.


     


    You might want to add CDP choline if you are worried about dopamine and depression. CDP choline can improve dopamine production and it increases the dopamine receptor sites. It's actually helped alleviate cocaine addiction etc.


     


    My first suggestion would be to pair the phenylpiracetam with CDP choline. Don't give up on racetams, but also don't be too attached to making them "work" for you. They don't work for everyone. After this test, you might find that you have more luck with something like CILTEP.

  • Have you tried a TULIP protocol?  There seems to be a lot of studies out there showing that it helps improve brain function in people with traumatic brain injury.  Most people use low LED security lights four times a week (start with 30 seconds per sight and cover the whole brain) and take the TULIP stack (ubiquinol, PQQ, shilajit, and creatine).


     


    Good luck to you!


  • abinsfabinsf
    edited April 2014


    You might want to add CDP choline if you are worried about dopamine and depression. CDP choline can improve dopamine production and it increases the dopamine receptor sites. It's actually helped alleviate cocaine addiction etc.


     


    My first suggestion would be to pair the phenylpiracetam with CDP choline. Don't give up on racetams, but also don't be too attached to making them "work" for you. They don't work for everyone. After this test, you might find that you have more luck with something like CILTEP.




     


    Thank you. VERY helpful. Dopamine has always been a sticking point for me, the TBI only complicates things further. My 23&me / genetic genie results shed some light, but my understanding is pretty limited. Completely misunderstood the choline-depression connection, will try! Did a month long trial of CILTEP,  no noticeable effects.


     


    Appreciate the reminder on expectations - I honestly didn't expect much from phenylpiracetam after my non-experience w/piracetam, but always hopeful. So far, Nuvigil has been the only thing that's made any *real* difference. It just wasn't sustainable.


     


    Oddly enough, Brain Octane (but not regular MCT) w/matcha comes in second for increasing alertness. Alertness without focus, but still...


     


    thanks again!




  • Have you tried a TULIP protocol?  There seems to be a lot of studies out there showing that it helps improve brain function in people with traumatic brain injury.  Most people use low LED security lights four times a week (start with 30 seconds per sight and cover the whole brain) and take the TULIP stack (ubiquinol, PQQ, shilajit, and creatine).


     


    Good luck to you!




     


    TULIP? No, this is new to me. Will look into it more (might be back with some Qs).


     


    THANKS

  • edited April 2014

    Maybe try Modafanil?  Nuvigil is armondafanil - maybe Moda is gentler with the crashes for you?


     


    As far as choline goes, I was never a choline person but I've been having great results lately with Alpha GPC. 


     


    My current stack:


    1.6g Piracetam, 300mg GPC, 1g Artichoke, 1g Phenylalanine, 200mg RALA, 100mg CoQ10, 100mg Shalijit, 10mg PQQ, 500mg Mg(Malate)




  • Maybe try Modafanil?  Nuvigil is armondafanil - maybe Moda is gentler with the crashes for you?


     


    As far as choline goes, I was never a choline person but I've been having great results lately with Alpha GPC. 


     


    My current stack:


    1.6g Piracetam, 300mg GPC, 1g Artichoke, 1g Phenylalanine, 200mg RALA, 100mg CoQ10, 100mg Shalijit, 10mg PQQ, 500mg Mg(Malate)




     


    Nice stack man! What's the reasoning that you don't use forskolin with your stack? 

  • edited April 2014

    I cut out forskolin because 1) I don't know what is in the other 80%-95% of the extracts, 2) it is said to be rough on the liver and I have to balance the risks and rewards with my entire supplement portfolio;  and 3) I'm trying to minimize exogenous sources of cortisol spikes.  When I started taking Piracetam, I realized that it would be just as good as forskolin for increasing cAMP (if not better, at least based on how I feel) so I could lose the forskolin.  I also don't miss the exercise of self-standardizing the 4mg doses.


     


    My studying has been pretty damn good on this stack.  I don't get much free time, so I need to kill it when I have an hour or two - this stack definitely helps me get after it right away and honker down even if I'm aversive to some of the material I'm studying.




  • I cut out forskolin because 1) I don't know what is in the other 80%-95% of the extracts, 2) it is said to be rough on the liver and I have to balance the risks and rewards with my entire supplement portfolio;  and 3) I'm trying to minimize exogenous sources of cortisol spikes.  When I started taking Piracetam, I realized that it would be just as good as forskolin for increasing cAMP (if not better, at least based on how I feel) so I could lose the forskolin.  I also don't miss the exercise of self-standardizing the 4mg doses.


     


    My studying has been pretty damn good on this stack.  I don't get much free time, so I need to kill it when I have an hour or two - this stack definitely helps me get after it right away and honker down even if I'm aversive to some of the material I'm studying.




     


    Thank you for the quick an thourough explanation man! Just some comments though...


     


    There's a great 95% extract out there. http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/analyzed-supplements/forskolin-95-60-caps.html


     


    So it would only be taking 5mg a day of forksolin, which from all the studies I've seen would not be harmful to the liver.


     


    But if piracetam is doing the trick for you that is awesome! I just referenced the 95% extract above just in case anyone is interested in it.


     


    I've never heard of piracetam increasing cAMP though. Do you have any literature you could point me to? Or explain this more!


     


    Thanks man. 




  •  


    According to both those studies, piracetam dosage was based on 100mg per kg of body weight - increasinging cAMP 35%.


     


    I weigh 170 lbs, so in theory wouldn't I want to be taking around 7.7 grams of piracetam per day? 

  • I don't think you are close to using that information to calibrate a Piracetam dose.  How much does 4mg of forskolin dose increase your cAMP?  What about magnesium or caffeine or exercise?  Plus, you are presumably using Piracetam for reasons beyond cAMP - for me it was a bonus when I discovered that I might be able to cut out forskolin and feel no different.



  • I don't think you are close to using that information to calibrate a Piracetam dose.  How much does 4mg of forskolin dose increase your cAMP?  What about magnesium or caffeine or exercise?  Plus, you are presumably using Piracetam for reasons beyond cAMP - for me it was a bonus when I discovered that I might be able to cut out forskolin and feel no different.




     


    ahhhh good point! It was just a comment haha

  • GhastlyPrezGhastlyPrez Ghastly Prezence

    Hmm the whole stiffness of the neck and popping noises doesn't sound too good to me. >.> I'd be worried about some form of allergy (which from what I currently understand there isn't allergies to nootropics) and I say that because of seeing people "lockup" after taking some medication and have to backdoor with a benadryll to be able to move their neck and jaw again.


    Too much choline has been linked to depression, but I don't think a slight dose (maybe like the minimum recommended dose taken every  other day) would be harmful in these regards. Personally I have never experienced a slowing or drowsy effect from phenylpiracetam, but we're all chemically different and I've heard of people getting drowsy off of Aniracetam. I've always thought that it may be due to the potency of the racetam, not sure what would cause the drowsiness or lethargy (maybe ACh stimulation? or perhaps AMPA stimulation?).


    How many other nootropics have you dabbled with, primarily asking about racetams. If Phenylpiracetam is the first racetam you've taken what you could be experiencing may be only be a temporary "adjustment" to the new chemical that you've introduced to your system. If you've taken other racetams with better effect, I would think that it has something more to do with the phenylpiracetam as a chemical and not as a nootropic (in which case I would suggest trying a different racetam that could be beneficial to your overall goals in nootropics).


    :3


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