Why Is Casein Bad? And Is It Bad For All Of Us?

DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭
edited April 2014 in The Bulletproof Diet

Hello guys.


I am looking into inflammation and diet again. I wonder why exactly casein is so bad because most scientific studies I find do not state that it is bad. From what I know it is actually good as long as you are not allergic or intollerant to it.


 


I would be more than happy to see some science behind the avoidance of casein in general...


Looking forward to your answers.


 


 


Cheers,


Daniel


 


Edit: Here is something on the pro side of milk proteins: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24720113


May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

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  • katolotuskatolotus ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014

    depends if you have issues with diary. Bad is too general term.


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭

    I see. The reason why I'm asking is because there are a lot of people who say that casein increases inflammation in the body. I wonder where this opinion is coming from. I wonder if there is more to it than a possible allergy response.


    May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

    How much to eat:
    advanced | How to train: bulletproof training | HRV: HRV FOR TRAINING HRV BASICS What Affects HRV | Brain  & Memory dual n back training advanced training

     

     

  • Casien can cross react with gliadin, and it is a common problem for many people (particularly who have autoimmune issues) - if you tolerate it fine then enjoy it - just watch the source.


  • I recall reading somewhere Dave approves casein from A2 Cows?

    The casein in Goat milk is A2.

    From many studies conducted comparing whey & Casein, casein seems to be the best source of protein for building muscle due to its slow release of amino acids trickling into the bloodstream provides the muscle with a more sustained supply of amino acids which increases protein synthesis longer.

    Whey is absorbed quicker but protein synthesis doesn't last as long so a Casein/whey combo or casein/Leucine combo seems the best approach for post w/o protein.
  • Further to this same question...


     


    I was listening to podacast #113 with Dr. Cate and they were discussing the issues with processed protein sources, specifically whey protein powder, and that it was not ideal because of the processing. I understand that protein powder from a grass-fed source is better, but should I avoid whey and casein all together?


     


    I always have a protein shake post-workout and if I've had a heavy workout session I will add in a casein shake at night because of the slow release and the recovery/rejuvination that takes place at night. I don't think I react badly to these products but for overall health is it recommended to ditch them? I am interested in muscle building so is there a better alternative that anyone can suggest?


     


    Any help on this topic would be helpful. And apologies if it has been covered in other areas of the forum.


  • I'm very intrigued about this also. I eat a lot of fresh mozzarella, I buy it from tesco here in the uk and it says on the packet it's made in Germany. I personally think over here in Europe our cheeses and dairy are probably a lot lot better than the highly processed cheeses in the states and due to climate our cows here in uk almost all are grass fed, I think anyway!


    Any more information on casein inflammation?


    Just for the sake of it I'm doing a test of no casein for a week and then I'll eat it again, see if I have any dodgy reactions.
  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭

    Casein causes inflammation in some people and digestive issues in other people. Some people can tolerate it some people cannot. Genetics and leaky gut is my guess.


    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

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  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭

    I found the answer myself here:


    Casein (in all dairy) increases a Th1 response in mice (R) and likewise gives me and my clients brain fog.


     


    • Dairy (casein) (R1, R2) -Confirmed
    • Dairy (casein) (R1, R2) -Confirmed

     


     


    http://selfhacked.co...e-of-brain-fog/


    http://selfhacked.co...-th2-dominance/


     


     


    On the other side Whey seems to be good. :) Look it up in the above articles if you are interested. -Cheers


    May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

    How much to eat:
    advanced | How to train: bulletproof training | HRV: HRV FOR TRAINING HRV BASICS What Affects HRV | Brain  & Memory dual n back training advanced training

     

     

  • Danno RedDanno Red Practical Man

    Human milk protein is ~40% casein so in broad terms, casein is meant to be human food. I think if you F up the source's or the consumer's diet sufficiently anything has the potential to irritate...e.g. bad casein from poorly fed/raised cows is probably more likely to cause problems than casein from an ideally fed cow. And on the flip side, the best-raised/fed cows' casein probably will irritate the most inflamed, abused human gut. Just like coffee & people there's a broad spectrum of situations that are more or less likely to result in an unfavorable outcome...try to get as much right as you can and listen to your body while you find sources of natural foods that work for you.

  • Is it possible to both get a lot of energy from casein protein ( I find fresh mozzarella particularly good) but then also suffer inflammation and negative side effects . I'm not aware of any negative side effects but I geuss they're not always obvious.
  • J.T.J.T.
    edited July 2014

    It's another one of those n=1 type substances. When I was worrying about huge amounts of protein, I was told I needed casein before bed to continually flood my body with amino acids. So I was eating about 6-8oz of cottage cheese before bed every day.


     


    Within 2 weeks I looked like a puffed up marshmallow and gained 10 pounds DESPITE "counting calories". After I cut out the cottage cheese, it took about 3-4 weeks to start looking like normal again and lose that 10 pounds, likely caused by inflammation.


     


     


    For some people, they have no problems, for others like myself, it can be a kryptonite.


  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016


    Human milk protein is ~40% casein so in broad terms, casein is meant to be human food. I think if you F up the source's or the consumer's diet sufficiently anything has the potential to irritate...e.g. bad casein from poorly fed/raised cows is probably more likely to cause problems than casein from an ideally fed cow. And on the flip side, the best-raised/fed cows' casein probably will irritate the most inflamed, abused human gut. Just like coffee & people there's a broad spectrum of situations that are more or less likely to result in an unfavorable outcome...try to get as much right as you can and listen to your body while you find sources of natural foods that work for you.




     


    But is human milk supposed to be consumed past childhood?


     


    I don't have an issue with people consuming dairy on occasion as long as they don't have issues with it.


    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

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  • J.T.J.T.
    edited July 2014


    But is human milk supposed to be consumed past childhood?


     


    I don't have an issue with people consuming casein as long as they don't have issues with it.




    ___________________________________________________________________________________________


     


    Agreed. Babies consuming human breast come under the assumption from nature that your baby has tight junctions in their intestines and a proper bacterial balance in their guts. Most of us have taken antibiotics or other drug therapies which ruin the balance of gut flora and weaken the tight junctions in our intestines causing molecules of casein to leak through because it digests so slowly.


     


    If you have a solid gut, then you probably are ok. But even then, there are those 20% of humans who are genetically programmed to treat gluten like an immune invasion and all hell breaks loose. So I think casein, like gluten, has people out there who are just not genetically programmed to be able to handle it properly. The rest who can't tolerate it, probably have some bacterial imbalance in their guts.


     


    With that being said, there are people out there who can survive on nothing but casein and gluten and feel amazing. I'm just not one of them. Find your own kryptonites and if you are really a true bio-hacker, find WHY they are your kryptonites.


  • I have an allergy to casein and have avoided whey in the past because I thought it might be a problem for me.  I have not been tested for whey allergy or sensitivity.  I have tried whey shakes a few times and my experiences were not good.  I'm wondering if the problem may have been casein in the whey product.  Has anyone used Bulletproof Whey Protein with an identified casein allergy?  Is there casein in Bulletproof Whey Protein?  I'm new  and would appreciate some advice about protein sources for shakes - whey or collagen - or other suggestions.


  • Danno RedDanno Red Practical Man


    I have an allergy to casein and have avoided whey in the past because I thought it might be a problem for me.  I have not been tested for whey allergy or sensitivity.  I have tried whey shakes a few times and my experiences were not good.  I'm wondering if the problem may have been casein in the whey product.  Has anyone used Bulletproof Whey Protein with an identified casein allergy?  Is there casein in Bulletproof Whey Protein?  I'm new  and would appreciate some advice about protein sources for shakes - whey or collagen - or other suggestions.




     


    Short answer is yes, any whey taken from milk can have casein in it. Concentrate made from cheese whey will have what's known as GMP (glycomacro peptide--aka kappa casein) in it. And even the best processing of milk can have trace amounts of casein in the whey fraction. For more info keep reading!


     


    GMP is a double-glycosolated 64 amino acid chain of (kappa) casein that's snipped after coagulation of milk into cheese curd ... acid hydrolysis makes this happen as the pH of milk drops after the rennet's been added. This molecule remains water-soluble so it's tricky to separate out using only membranes ... ion-exchange processing is far more selective and whey made using this method tends to be less denatured and completely free of casein. Another product though is whey straight from milk (aka native whey). This whey is very likely to be essentially free of casein, tiny old GMP or otherwise, aside from whatever sneaks past the filtration methods used to make it. It's possible that this casein isn't as allergenic as the casein found in cheese though.


     


    Bulletproof whey says it's from native whey so in theory it should be free of casein ... but that's only as reliable as their process of manufacture. Pure filtered products require vigilance on membrane maintenance and processing pressure/flow-rates to assure proper separation. Hope my blathering has helped, not hurt, your quest!

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