Climate Change

SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭
edited May 2014 in Biohacker Banter

How do you guys feel about climate change? Is Global Warming going to spell the end of humanity? Is it just political BS?


 


Tell me your thoughts.


 


I only ask because I keep running into threads on forums I frequent or on Facebook, where people are talking about how the Earth is soon to become an inhospitable ball of ash/glacier, and while I've read a bit on the subject, I'd be lying if I said I could make heads or tails of it. In college I took a geology course and we discussed the natural heating/cooling cycles that the Earth had gone through in the past. The professor felt pretty strongly that global warming was a mostly natural phenomenon, and that the alarm amongst the general population was basically a bunch of rubbish. Whether he was right, well, I can't say. It certainly made sense to me at the time, based on my studies, but I haven't been able to do much research on the subject since. Every time I try and seek out the straight poop on this, it seems that all I run into are people with agendas-- either "for" or "against" the idea of human-induced climate change.


 


And, you know, there's the political aspect here, which seems to divide people on the subject before they're even presented with facts or studies.


 


Any good links so that I can research this further? Do you understand climate change or have strong (rational) opinions about it? I'd be interested to hear 'em.


 


And I understand this is kind of a controversial topic for some, so it'd be really, super cool  if we could have, like, a discussion about it that doesn't involve yelling or ad-homs or anything like that. I'm just looking to learn something here, personally!


 


<3


"I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

 

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Comments

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited May 2014


    In college I took a geology course and we discussed the natural heating/cooling cycles that the Earth had gone through in the past. The professor felt pretty strongly that global warming was a mostly natural phenomenon, and that the alarm amongst the general population was basically a bunch of rubbish. 




     


    ----


     


    I agree with the geologists, with a caveat. Geologists have this huge scope of study to the point where only once-in-several-million-years events raise their eyebrows. So yes, what's going on now is small potatoes compared to major geologic shifts like the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. 


     


    And yes, we are coming out of an ice age and this shit is going to happen regardless of human activity.


     


    BUT... To me the data do point to humans adding a couple degrees to whatever trajectory we were on with the normal heating cycle. To geologists, an increase of 2F over a few decades is a rounding error. To the rest of us us, that's New York under water. So it's context. I agree with the geologists, but they need to get their heads out of their asses and speak in normal language, and if they did, I think they'd tell you that beach front property is a bad investment. 


     


    As an example, I had a geology professor who said it didn't matter that Polar Bears were going extinct due to ice melt, because in captivity they can successfully interbreed with Grizzlies and have fertile offspring, which therefore makes Polar Bears and Grizzlies the same species, so therefore they are not going extinct. And yes, that's technically not wrong, but it's still going to seriously fuck up the arctic ecosystem, be really sad, and be difficult for Coca Cola's marketing team. 


     


    AND, we're way too hung up on CO2. To me, CO2 is like calories: it's the most dumbshit simple metric within a complex problem, but it's the only thing the public could understand so we keep talking about it. There is a hole in the ozone layer microwaving our friends in the southern hemisphere, and it's from chlorofluorocarbons humans assembled in labs and released. That is fucking unprecedented, even to geologists.


     


    Also I am a skier, and I'm pissed. 


  • edited May 2014

    I think it is a fear-based power play and money grab.  "Look over here at the melting ice!" (while never mentioning the ice forming over there.)


     


    The abundance potential of this planet is staggering.  Plant trees and veggies and flowers and shrubs.  Change your yard from a worthless patch of lawn, to a rotating seasonal garden.


     


    Let farm animals graze and work the earth.  Give the insects something to eat.  Go easy on having large families.  


     


    I agree with ryanmercer's points above.


     


    We should balance the "consumer" culture with nature.  Stay in balance as best we can on an individual basis, as that is in our control.


    Seeing through the chaotic.
  • Evan BrandEvan Brand Writer and Explorer
    edited May 2014

    While the Artic is melting in some spots, the Antarctic is actually getting thicker with ice.


     


    The C02 issue is chump change as far as I can tell. Have spoke with a few high level environmental experts that agree that it's alarmist and the opposite of what "they" predict is the truth.


     


    The true issues and dangers we are facing in the coming years are fresh water shortages and an even larger epidemic of adrenal fatigue (in the brain, not the adrenals) due to non-native EMF.


     


    But, we're not powerless and have the ability to design our environments for success! 


    Evan Brand, NTP, CPT

    Functional Medicine Practitioner and Podcast Host at NotJustPaleo.com

    Author of REM Rehab and Stress Solutions



  • I think it is a fear-based power play and money grab.  "Look over here at the melting ice!" (while never mentioning the ice forming over there.)


     


    The abundance potential of this planet is staggering.  Plant trees and veggies and flowers and shrubs.  Change your yard from a worthless patch of lawn, to a rotating seasonal garden.


     


    Let farm animals graze and work the earth.  Give the insects something to eat.  Go easy on having large families.  


     


    I agree with ryanmercer's points above.


     


    We should balance the "consumer" culture with nature.  Stay in balance as best we can on an individual basis, as that is in our control.




     


     


    Power and money grab for whom, exactly?  Who has anything to gain from it, aside from perhaps solar panel manufacturers, and a few book sellers?  Are we suggesting that the vast majority of scientists are part of a world-wide conspiracy aimed at propping up the so-called green energy sector?  When independent teams reach the same conclusions in pier reviewed journals, are we to ignore their conclusions because our ideology prevents us from placing any limits whatsoever on private enterprise?  Are we to just let everything play out, and somehow the market will self-correct for externalities that impact us on a global scale?


     


    I agree with the rest of your points, but I fail to understand the motives behind making this shit up.  Rather I see much more motive coming from the fossil fuel industry to muddy the debate with pseudo-science.  If this is all really an elaborate hoax, then virtually every scientific organization world-wide are placing their reputations on the line.  I don't know what would be worse: devastating climate change, or the total loss of credibility and relevance of the scientific community at large in the public's eye.  We may never recover from either scenario.

  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

    Bumping this, in case there's any interest...


    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

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  • Andy BoskampAndy Boskamp Andy Boskamp

    "While the Artic is melting in some spots, the Antarctic is actually getting thicker with ice."


     


    The slight increase in Antarctic sea ice is not a reason to dispute global warming.


     


    Air and surface water temperatures at the south pole are increasing. Warmer air can hold more moisture --> precipitation at the south pole is also increasing. This causes the salinity of surface waters to drop. Warmer and fresher surface waters are disrupting circulation patterns, there is less mixing with colder and saltier deep water.


     


    Now to bring it all together. Despite the increased temperature of surface waters, the decreased salinity is enough to cause greater ice formation. Fresher water has a higher freezing point than salt water (i.e. ice forms more readily). Contrast this with the example of throwing salt on the ground during a snow storm. This lowers the freezing point of the water, causing snow to melt.


     


    * To the reader who doesn't understand this straight away. You can take the easy route, and right me off as an alarmist. But seriously, do think the complexity of the Earth's climate system can be captured by simple facts?


     


    ** The implications of global warming are tremendous. If you try to rebut these claims, I expect more than a mindless, regurgitated one-liner.


    “The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.”

     

    - Marcus Aurelius

  • Andy BoskampAndy Boskamp Andy Boskamp

    ** The implications of global warming are tremendous. If you try to rebut these claims, I expect more than a mindless, regurgitated one-liner.


     


     


    ...You're not listening :P


    “The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.”

     

    - Marcus Aurelius

  • Andy BoskampAndy Boskamp Andy Boskamp

    Yes, relative to Earth's entire history, the current climate is cold.


     


    "Warming happens." Sure but the rate of temperature increases we have recorded recently are not conducive to a cyclic event. We have already elucidated the cyclic forcing mechanisms that have driven climate change in the past. These include changes in tectonic position, and Milankovitch cycles, which both work far too slowly to account for warming over the past century. Volcanic activity is another possibility, but sulfate aerosols and ash are actually elevated over the 20th century, which is conducive to cooling. Changes in ocean circulation can also not be the answer, since there is currently no excess heat for the oceans to release.


     


    Of the known forcing mechanisms, that leaves solar activity and greenhouse gasses as possible explanations. Increased solar activity alone cannot account for all of the recent warming. However, combined with the fact that more of that heat is being trapped by our atmosphere, we have an extremely plausible scenario. Greenhouse gas concentrations have risen sharply since the industrial revolution, and the cause of this increase is anthropogenic.


     


    If increased solar activity cannot explain the current rate of warming, then GHGs do play a part, then human do play a part.


     


    "Ice melting or growing doesn't matter." I equate this to saying that human life does not matter.


     


    Climate models predict a one to ten foot rise in sea level over the next 100 years. A three foot rise is what many experts are claiming as a conservative estimate. This has serious implications for a large portion of the population that lives near the coast. Even if your home won't be under water, coastal cities (that is, most large cities) will be dealing with freshwater shortages. That extra three feet of ocean will intrude into coastal aquifers, rendering them unusable.


     


    This will obviously also have downstream effects on food production, etc. So the effect of sea level rise will be global.


    “The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.”

     

    - Marcus Aurelius

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited May 2014

    I am all for us being good stewards to the environment, but it will never happen. The government geoengineers too much, China pollutes more then most of the countries in the world combined, and nuclear power, don't get me started on that. Really, it doesn't matter all it takes is one good earthquake on the New Madrid fault line and enough radiation sweeps the globe to end life as we know it.


     


    More than likely we will all be long dead before we see the "Day Before Tomorrow" effects of global warming, cooling.


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  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

    Andy Boskamp drank his BP coffee this morning! Awesome stuff.


     


    I started this thread because I knew little about global warming and climate change. I still don't know a whole lot about it, except for what's been shared on this forum and what I've read in the past. But this has been an interesting discussion and I'm glad I started it!


     


    So, here's another question: Can anything be done at this point?


    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

    Let's be friends on MyFitnessPal!

  • edited May 2014

    There is a nasty amount of politics involved, perhaps even more so than in food. I recommend the work of E. Calvin Beisner and the Cornwall Alliance:



    (Note, I disagree with his stance on health/food issues)


     


    http://www.cornwallalliance.org/docs/scientific-orthodoxies-politicized-science-and-catastrophic-global-warming.pdf



  • Weather Channel Founder Explains the History of the Global Warming Hoax

    ohn Coleman, an award-winning meteorologist and weatherman with sixty years of experience and founder of the Weather Channel, produced a video explaining the history of the man-made global warming hoax (see video below).


    Coleman, a former broadcast meteorologist of the year of the American Meteorological Society (AMS), explains that after being a member for several years, he quit the AMS after it became very clear to him that “the politics had gotten in the way of the science.” Coleman explains that there is no man-made global warming, and he’s sure of it. 


    Coleman says that if there were evidence of man-made global warming, he would have been dedicated his life to stopping it: 


    “I love our wonderful planet Earth. If I thought it was threatened by global warming, I would devote my life to stopping the warming!”

    Now they call it “climate change” instead of global warming, because the warming has stopped, says Coleman, and that $4.7 billion in taxpayer money is funding “bogus reports” and “bogus research.” 


    Coleman explains that any warming or “climate change” is extremely negligible from a long-term perspective and certainly nothing unusual or alarming, and points out that Antarctic sea ice is close to an all-time high, and the polar bear population is as high as it’s been in recorded history. 


    In regards to rising sea levels, Coleman says that:


    “It’s rising at about the rate of about six inches per hundred years, as part of this inter-glacial period. When North America was covered in a 400 foot thick ice core at the end of the last ice age, the oceans were low, and then as that ice melted, of course the oceans have risen. That rise has been gentle and is not important.”

    At about the 11:30 mark, Coleman begins a detailed explanation about just how the global warming hoax was started and heated up, including how Al Gore got involved in the movement.  WATCH BELOW:


     



  • Andy BoskampAndy Boskamp Andy Boskamp

    “The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.”

     

    - Marcus Aurelius

  • Andy BoskampAndy Boskamp Andy Boskamp
    edited May 2014

    I disagree. Did you watch the video clips at the end?


    “The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.”

     

    - Marcus Aurelius

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited May 2014

    Again, does climate change really matter when the elite of this planet and all the corporations do nothing for the environment of this planet? The debate shouldn't be about climate change, the debate should be how to deal with modern environmentalism while maintaining a normal standard of living.


     


    The media distracts us with "climate change" so that we don't see the real issues at hand. Alternative energy exists, the only problem is if it was to be introduced the elites would lose power and economies would crash overnight. So what do we do? Continue destroying the Earth with overpollution (Fracking, China, etc.), or change the whole world dynamic?


    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

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