New Metastudy Suggests Protein After Workout Doesn't Lead To Muscle Gain

http://www.realclearscience.com/journal_club/2013/12/05/you_dont_need_protein_after_lifting_weights.html


 


The researchers conclude that the total amount of protein you consume matters for muscle growth, but the timing doesn't matter.  Would be curious to hear any thoughts from those who agree, disagree or know of any research supporting this or a contrary conclusion.


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  • Don't have any hard science but definitely agree just from working out. You can feel the tiredness and aches as your muscles repair themselves the next day, never really believed there is this hour long window for maximum muscle growth. 

  • Star ChaserStar Chaser Powered by Shred
    The one hour widow is a myth.. UNLESS you didn't fuel properly pre workout, are in a serious mass gain protocol (aka eat everything in front of you, all the time) or you re going to be workout out again that day.

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  • Well, I've done the same type of review as they did but came to the opposite conclusion. However, I did adjust for other factors to get the post workout protein supplementation free from confounding factors. With that said, the protein post workout is more important for strength than for hypertrhophy.


     


    But I get confused where these scientist went to school. Really sloppy science. In the graph they show 21 studies on strength. 19 of them shows post protein was better than control and in 2 of them control was better. In my book that is a clear win for protein. On top of that, I bet the 2 studies that a was worse than control used soy protein. That is the only protein I've seen that gives worse results than control (carbs).


     


    With that said, you can still  build muscle without post workout protein but if you are in a hurry, take the protein.


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  • Well, I've done the same type of review as they did but came to the opposite conclusion. However, I did adjust for other factors to get the post workout protein supplementation free from confounding factors. With that said, the protein post workout is more important for strength than for hypertrhophy.




     


     


    What role does protein play in building strength as opposed to building muscle?  Is it involved in ATP synthesis?

  • edited June 2014
    Ok, I see I was wrong, soy protein was not used in the 2 studies where protein lost to placebo. However, I looked up the 2 studies. 

     

    1. Weisgarber 2012

    What can I say, protein did beat placebo. Not sure if the scientist are sleepy or what's up here?

    Citate "chest-press strength (PRO 16.6 ± 11.1 kg, PLA 9.1 ± 14.6 kg)"

    Last time I looked, 16.6kg was more than 9.1. Don't you agree?

     

    2. MIELKE 2009

    They used "whey + leucine". Other studies has showed that adding leucin to whey will diminish it's anabloic effect.

    Simply becauce whey already has s perfect amino acid profile so disrupting that by adding more of any amino acid will lower its effect. 

     

    So what this review actually shows is 20 studies where protein won with 20-0 over placebo. If post protein had no effect we should expect a 10-10 even bout. Can we get 20-0 by chance? Yes, the probability for that is (1/2)^20 = 1/1 048 576. You read right, one chance in one million to get that result. 

     

    In fact, this review has showed such compelling evidence for protein so if this was a court we would have DNA proof, 10 cops as witnesses and 2 independently filmed movies of the crime. That is how strong the evidence is. 

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  • It stimulates synthesis of muscle protein, actin and myosin. Hyperthrophy also occurs from sarcoplastic growth, water retention and other stuff that actually carbs stimulates. However, these things does not make you stronger. Since placebo usually is carbs, the cell volume will increase even without more muscle protein has been synthesised. Therefore cell volume (muscle volume) is a poor indicator of protein synthesis in short term studies. 


     




    What role does protein play in building strength as opposed to building muscle?  Is it involved in ATP synthesis?



    Which Factors are Most Important for Strength Development? Find out on this episode with Black Belt Nutrition on Super Human Radio 

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  • I actually wrote to the publisher and got response right away. they will review this case again and get back to me.

    Which Factors are Most Important for Strength Development? Find out on this episode with Black Belt Nutrition on Super Human Radio 

    The 5 Best & Worst Supplements - A free insider report from Black Belt Nutrition

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  •  


     

    2. MIELKE 2009

    They used "whey + leucine". Other studies has showed that adding leucin to whey will diminish it's anabloic effect.

    Simply becauce whey already has s perfect amino acid profile so disrupting that by adding more of any amino acid will lower its effect. 

     

     




    Sir, what do you think about adding leucin post workout to spike insulin?  Does the diminished anabolic effect make it a poor option?  


    A bit off topic, my apologies 

  • The amount of insulin needed to reach optimal muscle protein synthesis is fairly low. It is actually reached just with whey protein, not even carbs are needed. Additional "spike" of insulin will not help protein syntheses. However, it will stimulate the body to store fat. If you are below 3g leucine post workout adding leucine will help. However, if you take whey protein in such amount that you already have 3g leucine adding more of any individual amino acid will only interfere with the amino acid profile of whey. 


     


     


     




    Sir, what do you think about adding leucin post workout to spike insulin?  Does the diminished anabolic effect make it a poor option?  


    A bit off topic, my apologies 



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  • have you read keifer's carb backloading? i'd be curious to hear your take on his reasoning behind suggesting that after resistance training there's a window when any high GI carbs you eat will only go towards building muscle instead of gaining fat, independent of insulin. or is that some BS he made up so people would supplement their pizza-eating diets with weight training and be amazed that they grow muscles?


  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭

    in this study review they think it seems to be good to take pre post workout protein...


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/


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  • The amount of insulin needed to reach optimal muscle protein synthesis is fairly low. It is actually reached just with whey protein, not even carbs are needed. Additional "spike" of insulin will not help protein syntheses. However, it will stimulate the body to store fat. If you are below 3g leucine post workout adding leucine will help. However, if you take whey protein in such amount that you already have 3g leucine adding more of any individual amino acid will only interfere with the amino acid profile of whey. 





    So bodybuilders injecting 3iu(+) insulin and wasting their time?  


    The 'carb back loading' people seem to feel that spiking insulin post workout (with a variety of methods) is idea of growth.


    What are your thoughts?  

  • I’m familiar with carb back loading. I actually did something similar myself 15 years ago when I was competing in martial arts and wanted to cut weight without losing strength. There are studies showing that on an isocaloric diet taking the carbs in the evening rather than evenly spread out during the day is better for fat burning and weight loss.


     


    I like the diet but regarding diets I would argue the same as for workout programs. Which program is best? How many reps and sets should I do? There are several good programs and you need to change between them since the body adapt. 


     


    I believe the same is true for diets. Not that you should start eat pizza and other modern process products but within the paleo type of food you can mix and vary things.


    Fasting, BP fasting, carb back loading, ketogenic diet, high protein, low protein and so on. Make some changes now and then. We for sure could not eat the same way day in and out during the evolution. 


     


    Even though it is less harmful for the cells to load up with carbs post workout compared to if you have not worked out I wouldn't do it week after week without any variation. 


     


     




    have you read keifer's carb backloading? i'd be curious to hear your take on his reasoning behind suggesting that after resistance training there's a window when any high GI carbs you eat will only go towards building muscle instead of gaining fat, independent of insulin. or is that some BS he made up so people would supplement their pizza-eating diets with weight training and be amazed that they grow muscles?



    Which Factors are Most Important for Strength Development? Find out on this episode with Black Belt Nutrition on Super Human Radio 

    The 5 Best & Worst Supplements - A free insider report from Black Belt Nutrition

    3 Steps to become a master Bio-Hacker - Part 1

     

  • eh, for now i am pretty content sticking with the bulletproof diet, and mostly just trying to see what other useful ideas/practices out there overlap with the bulletproof approach. i'm not really trying to invest a lot of time in "working out" either, trying to be as minimalist as possible with that so i can focus on the other physical activities that i am into, which is why i'm sticking with BBS for now. on the BP diet you're going to do a weekly carb refeed anyways, and was just wondering if you think that combining the refeed with a post workout protocol makes sense, especially for folks looking to add lean mass. i started a little more detailed thread about this idea here if you care to chime in: http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/11358-tglutglut-4-foodbody-comp-hack/


  • I find these studies extremely confusing. Could someone help me translate them into real life application?


    One question I have is whether I need protein/ carbs before a strength training or HIIT interval training or would some BCAA's be sufficient?


    I also don't understand how to figure out how much protein/ carbs I need after each of these types of exercise and in what period of time before one starts losing muscle. Also calculations seems primarily based on knowing your lean body mass. I weigh 118 lbs, but have no idea how much if that is LBM.


    Thanks!
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