No Fail Fat Burning For Women

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  • Okay, that makes more sense. I was actually having a very similar conversation in the facebook group this week, regarding whether your fat intake can be high enough that you're in ketosis but not actually burning any stored fat. Frustrating. :/


    I've run across some ideas that make it sound like that doesn't necessarily have to happen though, Dave's "4,000 calories a day without exercising" story for one. I read one book, Cate Shanahan's I think, where the author talked about nutritional starvation, where you take in plenty of calories, or more than enough, but because of insufficient nutrition, your body still goes into a type of starvation mode and packs on the pounds. In the opposite case, if you're getting stellar nutrition, you can theoretically overeat without gaining weight, maybe even lose weight.


    I think that happened for me over the last holiday season, when I did nothing different except adding a couple of nutrient dense foods to my diet (bone broth, liver, sprouted grains) and dropped 15 pounds. I need to figure out how to make that happen again. :)

    A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for.

  • Jason MillerJason Miller Mother nature isn't stupid mod


    Okay, that's a fair criticism of VLC diets, Jason, but it's not really fair to Skye's program to say "most people don't do it right, so the program is bad." I do think her book could be written better and be more clear about what to do -after- the first 10/21 days. It seems to me that a lot of women look at the 10 days as the set up for the entire diet, apart from carb refeeds, and I don't think that's what was intended, especially given how, ah, strongly Skye responded to those who came in here with an attitude of restriction. And Reka, how is using VLC to turn on ketosis an empty claim? The fact that it's not a long term strategy doesn't change how it works. If you eat high fat/low carb, your body starts burning fat instead of carbs.


    My interpretation of Skye's plan:

    -You do the 10-day depletion -if- you're coming off a high carb diet, for the simple purpose of jump starting your body's "fat furnace."

    -You then cycle 3 days of slightly modified BPIF with 1 day of HIIT and carb refeeding.

    -Within your eating window, you eat as much good food as you want, no restriction. What that good food is depends on how you respond to adding it back.


    This is a pretty simple program and, like I said, not much different from Dave's BPIF. Let's not bash the program just because a few people didn't do it right.




     


     


    The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim.  The fundamental claim being made is that carbs are bad, but they aren't so that kind of squashes it already, people having actual fat loss (not lean mass and water) are doing so by eating less calories than maintainance.  You have to show me someone that is not losing water and lean mass while losing fat mass eating a caloric surplus using only the absence of carbs as the method.  

    My Crossfit auto template programming here, body composition coaching through Eat to Perform here,
  • I wonder if my fat intake could be too high. I could cut some out of the coffee for starters. Should probably get ketostix and make sure I'm actually in ketosis at all, though I don't know how I could not be. 


  • Jason, Skye never says carbs are bad, beyond what I'm pretty sure is the consensus on here against nutrionally empty processed modern "food." She uses a short period of restriction at the outset, and then allows as much as the individual's body can tolerate of healthy carbs like rice, sweet potatoes, fruit and veggies.

    A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for.

  • Magess, I think it's definitely possible. I don't know what your diet looks like, but I'd try increasing or decreasing something for a week or two and see what happens. :) Also, I know Skye is big on the HIIT, but I don't know that it's entirely necessary. If you want to improve your fitness, definitely, but if you're just wanting to lose weight, then it's adding one more stressor to an already difficult process. Dave talks about that in one of the intro posts I think. Dr. Cate (author of Deep Nutrition) definitely thinks it's unnecessary.

    A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for.

  • Lizz, I don't know that what I'm doing actually counts as HIIT. I mean, I'm doing what she says in her book, but it doesn't leave me dead the next day. I'm pretty tired at the time, but the following day I'm okay. I decided to try adding weight when I do the squats in the tabatas to make them harder. The kettlebell swings I just don't know about. I can't go a full 15 minutes because my head starts to hurt and I can feel myself using the wrong muscles just to get through the motion. But the next day... no real soreness. Maybe that's good? Maybe that's terrible. I read recently that NOT getting DOMS was a good sign. But I just don't feel like I'm using/needing the 3 days in between exercise days.


     


    I think it's true that Skye doesn't say carbs are bad. But the book is limiting you to only eating them on a workout day. So once every four days. I had quite the plate of sweet potatoes and rice last night, let me tell you. I don't put on any water weight after the carb day, though. Even though the book says that's to be expected. Again, no idea if that's a good thing or a bad one.


     


    I'm trying now to figure out if I have a problem with nightshades. I did avoid them the first 21 days. Jumping into spicy curries was probably not the way to perform a test on myself. 


  • Yeah, she does kind of seem to limit starches to workout days, but that's one of the things I wish she were more clear about. The best I can find is that she says on normal days, during your eating window, to have as much healthy fats, protein, and veggies as you want. But she also talks in another place about fruits you can eat. And the list she provides is labeled as being for the 10-day depletion. She also talks about adding things back and her experience with adding back dairy. It's just not entirely clear. On that, I kind of agree with Jason that she doesn't really have a good "exit plan" set up.


    Since a large part of her inspiration is Dave's plan, I'm filling in some of the holes with his guidelines.

    A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for.



  • I think it's true that Skye doesn't say carbs are bad. But the book is limiting you to only eating them on a workout day. 




     


    No, her plan says limit safe starches to the period after HIIT, not carbs.  Other carbs are perfectly fine during the rest of the plan - especially green leafy veggies and other low-carb veggies, all of which provide a lot of nutrients. The plan also allows only a limited amount of low-carb fruits, because many women do not respond well to large amounts of fructose, the sugar found in fruit. It limits dairy because of the impact on our hormones, which is a much bigger issue for women than for men.


     


    What you all seem to be missing is that this is not a "diet" which is why it doesn't come with an exit plan.  There are diet modifications, but the workouts are equally important for improved health.  It's intended to burn fat, and reduce or eliminate inflammation from the body. A person can't eat healthfully for a short time, then go back to eating crap and expect the weight to stay off.  Expecting a short-term diet change to lead to long-term, permanent benefits is irrational.


     


    I say this as someone who has been eating this way for 4 months and has lost fat steadily during that time. My levels of inflammation have gone down a lot, and I've gained a lot of muscle from the HIIT. I would never have considered doing either kettlebell swings or tabata before I read the book, and both are a great addition to my life and my health.  This is a very healthy way of eating, if you do it properly, but it is intended as a permanent lifestyle change.

  • I really wish there would be ab easier way to participate in this group, am I the only one who finds it difficult?  I have had to page through about 25 or more "pages" to get to the most current posts....I have looked at Skye's "No Fail Fat Burning For Women" website and there is zero activity except many adverts for signing up the program.   There are so many questions and I am sure the answers are all in here .... I am going to print Greer's docs as they sound awesome.  I have been start and re-starting various plans and got to the "highest confusion level" some say one thing and others say something else.  I have decided today to stick to Skye and Dave as I do LOVE BPC, just have to include the supplements. I have not stopped dairy on my previous attempts and after reading here have decided that NO MORE DAIRY.   Today is day 1 of my 21 day.  I can't weigh myself because I am not home until Monday.  


     


    Is there an easier way to get to the last page (most current posts) if anyone knows please share.  I think I will report here daily.


     


    Thanks for reading and thanks to all you awesome ladies for your sharing your experiences.


     


    Have a blessed Friday.




  •  


     


    Is there an easier way to get to the last page (most current posts) if anyone knows please share. 


     




    I just click on the double >> next to the page numbers at the top of the post.  It take you to the last page of the thread. 

  • When all else failed for my last ten pounds, I tried the "Warrior Diet" by Ori H. and it rocks.  I never feel deprived and I even started working out daily with weights and a punching bag.  Feel awesome and am not so fixated on the numbers on the scales because I feel buff. 


  • Hi everyone, I have been doing bulletproof and Skye's book for almost 4 months with no real results and am getting frustrated.


    Has anyone actually had results (fat loss and increased energy?).  I can't get any replies to any emails or posts here and am about to go back to the pitiful low fat way of eating because all my skinny friends are getting results with that program and I have been drinking butter in my coffee and getting fatter.  Any help would be sooo appreciated!


     


  • Ahhhhh thank you Linda...I don't know why I hadn't worked it out before :)


  • I'm 2 months in with no results. So, I'm afraid I'm not much help. I feel fine. But nothing's shifting around as far as I can tell. I've checked and I definitely go into ketosis. I just redid the initial 10 days and had my first carb day yesterday. So I expect to show no ketones today and am curious when it will come back.


     


    I have noticed that I don't put on water weight after a carb day. I have no idea what that means. 




  • Hi everyone, I have been doing bulletproof and Skye's book for almost 4 months with no real results and am getting frustrated.


    Has anyone actually had results (fat loss and increased energy?).  I can't get any replies to any emails or posts here and am about to go back to the pitiful low fat way of eating because all my skinny friends are getting results with that program and I have been drinking butter in my coffee and getting fatter.  Any help would be sooo appreciated!




     


    I've lost 12 lbs. in 4 months, with the increased energy and focus, and I'm down a size in clothing (which to me is more important than what the scale says). I lost about 1/2 lb./week the first few months, but my weight loss has picked up speed lately. I think it's because I upped my carb intake on refeed nights, and I'm making good progress with the tabata & kettlebell workouts.  Like Magess, I don't put on water weight after carb night...I came on here to find out if anyone else was having that result, too.  :-P


     


    A couple of questions:


     


    1) Are you following the eating plan, or have you made modifications to it? Specifically, are you eating any dairy and sugar?  I ask because those two things are the biggest causes of weight-loss stalls for women.  


     


    2) Are you intermittent fasting? If so, how long? Increasing your non-eating window can help.


     


    3) Are you doing the workouts on carb nights?  Having your muscles glycogen depleted makes a big difference in how effective this is. 



  • I've lost 12 lbs. in 4 months, with the increased energy and focus, and I'm down a size in clothing (which to me is more important than what the scale says). I lost about 1/2 lb./week the first few months, but my weight loss has picked up speed lately. I think it's because I upped my carb intake on refeed nights, and I'm making good progress with the tabata & kettlebell workouts.  Like Magess, I don't put on water weight after carb night...I came on here to find out if anyone else was having that result, too.  :-P


     




     


    After 4 months, have you modified your kettlebell or tabata any? I do those too, but I'm not left exhausted for the next few days or anything. Like, I can kinda feel that I did something the next couple of days, but it's not major aching. And yet I don't think I can go up to 40lb kettlebell, or do more than 8 minutes without passing out. (The kettlebell gives me a headache when I finish the 15 minutes at the current weight, too.) So I don't feel like I can push myself much harder in the moment, but I feel like I could do the exercises more frequently overall.

  • hi, is it supposed to feel great when you are in ketosis? if it is not (tiredness, a kind of feeling to lay down to bed, ...)please, can you tell me more?thank you so much, all of you
  • I am new to this site and have ordered the book.  I have just taken the tests and have found out that I have stage III adrenal fatigue, SIBO, leaky gut, low cortisol, and a parasite.  The doctor told me due to Stage 3 adrenal fatigue I can't do the BPC for breakfast.  Is that true? 




  • After 4 months, have you modified your kettlebell or tabata any? I do those too, but I'm not left exhausted for the next few days or anything. Like, I can kinda feel that I did something the next couple of days, but it's not major aching. And yet I don't think I can go up to 40lb kettlebell, or do more than 8 minutes without passing out. (The kettlebell gives me a headache when I finish the 15 minutes at the current weight, too.) So I don't feel like I can push myself much harder in the moment, but I feel like I could do the exercises more frequently overall.




     


    Yes, I've been increasing my sets (of 10 reps) each week until I can do 25 reps comfortably, then increasing the weight of the bell (and starting over again at 15 sets). It definitely raises my heart rate, and I sweat like mad, so its a good workout.   I'm not feeling ongoing muscle pain the day after, but I do feel the effects.  If you can't go up a weight yet, just increase the amount of sets you're doing.


     


    For tabata, from what I've read elsewhere 4 minutes is the standard. I'm not sure where Skye got 8, and I personally cannot do it.   I did it her way the first time and could barely walk for the next 2 days! I alternate between air squats, wall pushups (I know, I'm a weakling), jumping jacks and kettlebell swings. I've been trying to increase my sets each week, but I'm still at 6 minutes. 

  • Hi all.  Reading your posts with interest.  I am not getting results any longer.  At first I had the energy increase and dropped a few pounds.  Then everything stopped.  Energy is zilch (even worse than before I started,) weight and measurements have plateaued.  I am working with a healthcare provider to help with my nutrition.  He is amazing and I've been having some luck with my energy from things he's suggested.   I'm on hormone replacement therapy (bioidentical.)  He also ran blood test to check nutrient levels and adjusted my supplements accordingly.  Being menopausal I feel like I'm just trapped with this poochy stomach and low energy.  I've never ever in my life been a low energy person and none of my clothes fit right.


     


    I truly believe in the BP diet and think Dave is on the right track about our food supply.  I read everything he puts out.  I've been eating Paleo for years and switched up to Dave's much cleaner version. 


     


    Anyhoo - just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in the "lack of expected results" feeling.  I wish Dave would take some time to work on menopausal issues and not just healthy fertility.  Wouldn't it be nice if he did a "healthy active grandparents" series???  I always figured I'd be THAT grandma who could keep up with them and with this fatigue and energy depletion, getting daily chores done is a big deal for me. 


     


    We continue to eat on the green side of the BP list and we love knowing we are eating such healthy food. 


  • SystemSystem mod
    edited September 2015


    Hey KRSherwood!

    Congrats on being on Day 6. Yes, the first few days can feel almost flu-like as your cells release toxins. The first week was rough for me but then I lterally woke up the next day feeling like a combo of Wonder Woman, Michelle Obama and Rhonda Rousey.


    Ellie's advice below is pretty spot on. To combat the "keto flu" take your magnesium and potassium at night, drink a lot more water to help flush the toxins out and up your pink salt intake. As far as morning energy goes, re-read pg 67, "Kickstart Your Morning Energy and Adrenals with Pink Salt."

    HUNGER

    Do not fear fat. During your feeding window I want you to really up your healthy fats to comprise 80% of your meal. Keep protein moderate. Yes, have more than one butter coffee or tea. Sometimes adapting to fat can take the body a while to get used to. Take some betaine HCL with your drink and food if you find yourself nauseous. I know you're doing the tea because you loved sugar with coffee (who doesn't?!). Have you tried stevia in your coffee? Another thing I do is put ground vanilla along with my ground coffee when I brew. Awesome flavor.


    Instead of adding more MCT oil to your drink, up the butter. It seems (anecdotally, I don't have the research) that when women up the MCT there's less fat loss than when they up the butter. Another idea is blending in a raw egg yolk into your coffee. It is DELICIOUS. Tastes like ice cream. If you're hungry I suggest trying the coffee with stevia, upping you butter and blending in an egg yolk. Have as much as you want until it's time to eat. And when you eat, go for it. Go to town. Fatty cuts of clean meat, fatty fish, butter, ghee, coconut oil, avocados, coconut milk (full fat), olive oil (not to cook with). Steam some cauliflower and drop a chunk of butter in there with some pink salt, garlic, pepper, red pepper flakes and blend. Soooo good. Better than mashed potatoes.


    Yes, once you make healthy fat the cornerstone of your diet and have shifted your body to using fat as fuel (as it's supposed to), your hunger pangs will decrease significantly. Even after a workout. For example, today I had two butter coffees, had to lift at noon and I powerlifted very heavy, drank a SuperStarch pre-and during workout and still am not very hungry. I will probably eat once today: a big salad and beef stir fry.


    Ellie is also correct about the collagen drink. I often mix warm water, collagen powder, a splash of apple cider vinegar, a dash of cinnamon, stevia to taste, and a tiny dash of cayenne for my nightcap. Tastes like a spicy hot apple cider.


    So the takeaways here are:

    • Your body is healing itself right now. I know it sucks but soldier through and you WILL come out on the other side feeling like a ninja.
    • Drink more water. Eat more pink salt. Combine the two in the morning.
    • Healthy fat comes first. Fat will fade the hunger.
    • You got this. You were a D1 athlete and raise two children. You totally got this.
    Keep rocking. Keep us posted.



    hello and thank you for sharing your intelligence!

    so, i've just ordered your book on amazon.uk and i will have to wait a few days to read it.

    i really would be grateful if you could help me in the meanwhile.

    i have posted a thread called "tiredness", so everything is already there.

    but then i really hope, no better, I KNOW FOR SURE you are my ultimate answer!


    in a nutshell, the Bp seems that it is not enough for me either, then i add a matcha Bp after 2 hours or so, sometimes another one around noon so i can wait until 2pm for lunch because usually the night before my dinner is at around 7.30pm


    (BP Coffee with 1 tablespoon and a half of ghee-ancient organic's-1 teaspoon of brain octane)

    (BP Matcha with Ippodo matcha tea, 1 teaspoon of XCT oil, 1 tablespoon and a half of ghee)


    my lunch and dinner are pretty much the same but, of course, different kind of fish and meat every day, xct oil in the salad (cucumbers, raw zucchini, raw asparagus, black carrots, radishes, 1 hass avocado (a day), pink salt).

    i don't eat any kind of cereal though

    i would really appreciate your help. thank you in advance, yours truly
  • Like many of you, I also feel like I am at a standstill,  or maybe marching in place.  Just reread Skye's post from 9/25/2014, which I guess Mia posted today.  Thanks Mia - the one thing that pops from that post for me  is the MCT / butter suggestion.  Up the butter instead of (and maybe in place of) the MCT oil, which I will do.  And to be honest, other than a multivitamin, I don't take any of the suggested supplements.  Still this has been the easiest plan, with the fastest results I've ever tried.  Can't speak for everyone about exercising, but for me I try to swim at least 30 mins 3 times a week, instead of tabata, or hiit.  As fall fast approaches I may up that to 4 times a week.  I just believe the cardio and resistance from swimming has been a great benefit to my overall health.  I started NFFBFW in May.  I've lost a size and one-half in pants and almost a full 2 sizes in tops.   Thanks to everyone who has posted tips and/or results. 


  • Hi,


    I'm new to this forum, but not to the BP diet. In January my husband and I started doing it together, within 2 months he had lost 20 lbs, I lost 2. Needless to say I got a little discouraged, and fell of the wagon so to speak. I also read a lot of conflicting information from a lot of different sources, and noticed that I got more brainfog off of the BP diet and gained more weight. I then found the NFFBFW by Sky st.John and was following it closely or so I thought, but after re-reading it recently I realized that I missed a lot of details and 18 days ago I started over. This time I'm doing the diet by the book, and last time I weighed myself, almost a week ago, I had only lost 3 lbs but all of my clothes are starting to feel looser and I feel better. The one thing that I still struggle with and stands out for me from the post above is drinking enough water. It seems to be such a simple thing but such an important thing if you want to  loose the weight, at least for me. I'm also going to do one round of the RFLP starting next week, as I'm getting impatient and I'm still aprox 30 lbs over weight. I also really appreciate this forum and I have read many of the threads about many different subjects but esp. the ones on womens weight loss as we seem to function a little different then the men. :wink:


  • Well I got a second Bodpod reading after 3 months of following this and I can say it's a complete failure. +2lb, +5% body fat


     


    On to the next thing.


  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭


    Well I got a second Bodpod reading after 3 months of following this and I can say it's a complete failure. +2lb, +5% body fat


    On to the next thing.




    Looking at those metrics, I presume you lost lean mass as well

    fake it till you make it

  • Jason MillerJason Miller Mother nature isn't stupid mod


    Well I got a second Bodpod reading after 3 months of following this and I can say it's a complete failure. +2lb, +5% body fat


    On to the next thing.




    This result is consistent with under eating, you don't loose lean mass when exercising and fueling properly, this would also explain the lack of weight gain on your refeeds, when you eat extra and nothing happens or weight drops its a sign that calories are too low and the stress response is using fat as protection.
    My Crossfit auto template programming here, body composition coaching through Eat to Perform here,
  • Hi there


    I’ve been low carbing for a while and decided to try BP as I only want to lose 5-6 pounds, this was after I broke the low carbing to go on holiday and now the scale wont budge, the other night I was high in ketosis using the Ketonix to monitor. As per the BP I had a tiny amount of sweet potato and had taken the recommended vitamins on BP plus collagen in my night decaf coffee.

    I always test myself half an hour after my last coffee and reads high but now its showing nothing even on the urine sticks. I’m going out of my mind as I was living my life without any starch carbs and thought the BP would be great to introduce more.

    This is really getting me down as I’m not overweight but my do feel bloated and horrible with these extra pounds.


    Hope you can help.


    Many thanks


  • This result is consistent with under eating, you don't loose lean mass when exercising and fueling properly, this would also explain the lack of weight gain on your refeeds, when you eat extra and nothing happens or weight drops its a sign that calories are too low and the stress response is using fat as protection.




     


    Make me wonder how many calories I "should" have had. I mean, I was typically getting around 2k. It didn't feel like restricting. But I guess you can always put more mayo on everything.

  • Jason MillerJason Miller Mother nature isn't stupid mod


    Make me wonder how many calories I "should" have had. I mean, I was typically getting around 2k. It didn't feel like restricting. But I guess you can always put more mayo on everything.




    My girlfriend eats over 2000cal/day and is 5'0" 123lbs, I recall your earlier post saying you are 280ish. Adding more fat doesn't really make a lot of sense, you are undereating protein which plays a large part in keeping and increasing lean mass, you are greatly limiting carbohydrates which control cortisol (stress) and fuel these workouts you are doing, your metabolism is likely weak compared to the metabolic demands of your organism (which is much greater than 2000cal). I'm glad you are getting bodpods, that is awesome at judging the effectiveness of what you are doing. What was the before/after of your lean mass?
    My Crossfit auto template programming here, body composition coaching through Eat to Perform here,


  • My girlfriend eats over 2000cal/day and is 5'0" 123lbs, I recall your earlier post saying you are 280ish. Adding more fat doesn't really make a lot of sense, you are undereating protein which plays a large part in keeping and increasing lean mass, you are greatly limiting carbohydrates which control cortisol (stress) and fuel these workouts you are doing, your metabolism is likely weak compared to the metabolic demands of your organism (which is much greater than 2000cal). I'm glad you are getting bodpods, that is awesome at judging the effectiveness of what you are doing. What was the before/after of your lean mass?




     


    Before: 129lb lean muscle


    After: 115lb lean muscle


     


    My overall bodyweight is basically the same. 277 -> 279. Weirdly I haven't noticed anything else different, like the way clothes fit. They fit the same now as 3 months ago. I was mostly thinking the bodpod reading would turn out the same because of that.


     


    I get about 100g of protein a day. At the beginning of the year I'd been doing this high protein thing that averaged 150-200g. After 3 months of that, I weighed 10lb more and my pants got tighter. So that didn't seem like something to keep doing. When I stopped specifically adding protein to things, I ended up where I am now.

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