Bodybuilding For Muscle Mass Gain

Hi,


I'm bodybuilding rigorously 5x a week. Heavy lifting and low reps for maximum mass gain. How does one go about that on the bulletproof diet? BP diet says eat to satiety - if I do that I won't gain, because it's very easy for me to feel full and not eat much. For gains I need to force myself to eat extra. I have the iron mass Schwarzenegger mass gainer for extra calories and protein and I add some collagen whey to it as well, that's not quite bulletproof though.


Any advice is welcome. Thanks!

Comments

  • im listening to ben greefield's podcast on how to become a fat burning machine..dec6 episode lots of great advice if you haven't already heard It ;)


  • Ditch the mass gainer, make your own- whey, eggs, coconut milk, butter? Tastes awesome..


  • Drink as much protein and carbs as you can during/post workout, You will be thirsty during lifting and if you drink more than just water that will help. I cant give too much more input because I am the opposite: eat all day don't gain any weight.


  • This is the closest topic I found to ask my question.

    If the goal is gaining muscle, than from what I understand higher volumes are key.

    When I train for strength I only do basic compound barbell movements (+weighted dips and pull ups) for major muscle groups and no compound/assisted/ or single joint/assisted movements.

    For massing, I plan on doing the basic barbell movement first (lets say squat for legs) and another exercise in a assisted manner (lets say leg pushes).

    So, my question is, should I be doing both exercises in a row or should I split them, lets say squat, bench, leg press, some other chest exercise?


    Will doing two same muscle group exercises in a row positively impact hypertrophy or it doesn't matter as longer as you increase volume on a weekly basis, regardless of how you split it in a one given training day?


    Many thanks!


  • Carbs Carbs Carbs. These have been great listens for me over the last couple weeks:


    http://daily.barbellshrugged.com/the-window-of-gainz-episode-178/


     


    Layne Norton's podcast has been really good recently. He knows his shit 


    http://www.biolayne.com/category/podcasts/


     


    I have a bag of Dextrose coming in the mail. 


    Freelance Wordpress developer and wannabe powerlifter
    carlaiau.com

     


  • This is the closest topic I found to ask my question.

    If the goal is gaining muscle, than from what I understand higher volumes are key.

    When I train for strength I only do basic compound barbell movements (+weighted dips and pull ups) for major muscle groups and no compound/assisted/ or single joint/assisted movements.

    For massing, I plan on doing the basic barbell movement first (lets say squat for legs) and another exercise in a assisted manner (lets say leg pushes).

    So, my question is, should I be doing both exercises in a row or should I split them, lets say squat, bench, leg press, some other chest exercise?


    Will doing two same muscle group exercises in a row positively impact hypertrophy or it doesn't matter as longer as you increase volume on a weekly basis, regardless of how you split it in a one given training day?


    Many thanks!




     


    Check out this http://www.biolayne.com/podcasts/physique-science-radio-episode-4-periodization-with-dr-mike-zourdos/


     


    I usually do 2 heavy lift movements followed by 3/4 assistance movements. 


     


     


    Mondays

    Heavy Squat

    Sumo Variation



    Support exercises (not heavy, just for pump/volume)

    One Legged Leg Press

    Hamstring Curls

    Ab Wheel

     

     

    Wednesday

    Bench

    Bench Variation (pause press, or close grip)

     

    Support Exercises (not heavy, just for pump/volume)

    BarbellRows / Incline Press

    Lat Pull Down / Barbell Press

     

     

    Friday

    Conventional Deadlift

    Squat Variation (pause squats)

     

    Support Exercises (not heavy, just for pump/volume)

    Walking Lunges

    Pull Ups (banded)

    Planks

     

     

    Saturday

    Is just a repeat of Wednesday but lighter(mainly for technique)

     


    For Squats and Bench it works on a progression of 4 x 8, the next week, 5 x 5 the next week, then 3 x 3.

    Deads go 4 X 6, 4 X 4, 4 X2, then repeat.

     

    Note, I am a beginning powerlifter, but I am seeing mass gainz from this program.

    That doesn't say it is optimal, but it definitely beats 5x5 programs I have used in the past and the old 4 sets of 10/12 reps to failure idea

     

     


     


     



     

    Freelance Wordpress developer and wannabe powerlifter
    carlaiau.com

     


  •  


    Check out this http://www.biolayne.com/podcasts/physique-science-radio-episode-4-periodization-with-dr-mike-zourdos/


     


    I usually do 2 heavy lift movements followed by 3/4 assistance movements. 


     


     


    Mondays

    Heavy Squat

    Sumo Variation



    Support exercises (not heavy, just for pump/volume)

    One Legged Leg Press

    Hamstring Curls

    Ab Wheel

     

     

    Wednesday

    Bench

    Bench Variation (pause press, or close grip)

     

    Support Exercises (not heavy, just for pump/volume)

    BarbellRows / Incline Press

    Lat Pull Down / Barbell Press

     

     

    Friday

    Conventional Deadlift

    Squat Variation (pause squats)

     

    Support Exercises (not heavy, just for pump/volume)

    Walking Lunges

    Pull Ups (banded)

    Planks

     

     

    Saturday

    Is just a repeat of Wednesday but lighter(mainly for technique)

     


    For Squats and Bench it works on a progression of 4 x 8, the next week, 5 x 5 the next week, then 3 x 3.

    Deads go 4 X 6, 4 X 4, 4 X2, then repeat.

     

    Note, I am a beginning powerlifter, but I am seeing mass gainz from this program.

    That doesn't say it is optimal, but it definitely beats 5x5 programs I have used in the past and the old 4 sets of 10/12 reps to failure idea

     

     


     




     


    Thanks for the advice!



    I´ll check the link!


    Muscle mass increase could be from the "beginner" status =)

    Can´t say much about your program e.g you´re doing the big 3 and if you have progress at the expected rate, great =)


    However, why no overhead press? From the standpoint that powerlifting does the "big 3" I get it. But it´s a good basic exercise and I don´t think incline press could be a perfect substitute for that.

    Also, why 3x3? Isn't this rep range more for peaking and not for general strength training? However I´ll admit I do reps of 3 on deload weeks and lighter training days to maintain high levels of fitness and lower volume/fatigue.

  • Jason, advise please?


  • @ D0N

    I am having a similar issue not having the appetite I need so what I'm doing for those meals I feel like I'm "force feeding" myself I'm doing my

    Protein shake with blitzed oatmeal ( when u add water and cook oatmeal expands and is harder to get down which is why I blitzed it in the "raw" form just be sure to drink plenty water) . This is way easier to get down for me...hope this helps!
  • Got it, thanks!




  •  


    With regard to super-setting antagonist muscle groups.


    For example, 

    Chest and back

    Biceps and triceps

    Hams and quads



    Not likely the best training idea for maximal effect, supersetting works well with things like push- push, or pull-pull, because it allows you to get that much more metabolite accumulation in the target muscle by using bigger muscles to help it along when it's already fatigued. Skull crushers first and close grips after let the chest drag the triceps further into metabolite accumulation than they would go by themselves.


    But with antagonist supersets like push-pull or push-squat , one muscle is resting and flushing metabolites out while the other works, so there is no additional metabolite accumulation compared with normal straight sets.  Probably the best focused efficiency would be whole sessions like mon-push, tue-pull, wed-squat, repeat, otherwise you risk dividing your energy resource across the antagonists in a session.



     




     


    If you have a volume goal and it is accomplished by antagonist supersetting (due to time constraints, and/or limited sessions in the gym), should the total weight volume be discounted because of disadvantages with metabolite flushing?


     


    Does the above apply if your goal is overall strength rather then hypertrophy?


     


    I am only recently becoming an exercise nerd, so have mostly dogmatic ideas (probably from a misguided adolescence of Muscle and Fitness magazines) to pull upon at this point. For every article on training out there (that isn't actively promoting a product) there is like 20 nutritional articles, so solid advice seems to be a bit harder to find. I am rating Layne Norton's Physique science podcast that I've just started listening to (whilst camping out in the pain cave foam rolling), good science based exercise yarns.

    Freelance Wordpress developer and wannabe powerlifter
    carlaiau.com

     
  • If one does, lets say, 3 leg exercises one after another (warm-up 2 x 12, working sets 3 x 12 reps, basic compound barbell first, assistance work after), is doing a warm-up set or two for every assistance exercise necessary or is this a waste of energy?


    It "feels" like a waste of energy, considering that the warm-up is below 60% 1RM (below hypertrophy threshold) and in spite of the weight being relatively light, it still uses up resources.  


    Considering that I´m fine doing working sets straight away after the compound basic without compromising safety/technique, should I still do the warm-up sets?


    Thoughts?


  • DagothUrDagothUr
    edited September 2015

    Ok, my next set of questions.


    Currently: week 2 of hypertrophy training, gym 4 times a week.

    Plan: 3 mesocycles of hypertrophy training, 5 weeks each, 4 week of training and 1 week deload, 15 weeks total, which is just under that 4 month max productive hypertrophy training (from my understanding).

    Second mesocycle will switch exercises for the "variability principle" benifits.

    Calories: +500 over maintenance, which is 4000-5000 kcal/day.


     


    Q1) Deload weeks - will still eat +500 over maintenance, however, should the last deload week be used to slightly reverse-reverse diet to maintenance calories, or this doesn't make a difference?


    Q2) Plan after massing: 3 mesocycles strength training, 1 mesocycle maintenance calories and slightly higher volume, because I heard Dr. Israetel saying, that abruptly lowering volume when switching from hypertrophy training may not be optimal for best newly grown muscle retention. Seems like a good idea. To implement or not?


     


    Q3) 2 and 3 strength mesocycles: lower volume strength training and cutting calories -500 to -1000 max per day to cut the fat gained while massing. Once again, second mesocycle will switch exercises for the "variability principle" benifits. NOW. I listened multiple times to a podcast with Dr. Israetel and Armi Legge regarding the 7 principles of training. In the end of the podcast, they discussed coupling calories to different training phases and there was a moment that was unclear to me. The idea was: hypertrophy training - hypercaloric eating, high volume; lower volume strength training - maintenance calories; cutting phase, HYPOcaloric eating, high volume hypertrophy training. The last part is the one that doesn't make sense to me. One goes hypocaloric, mTOR in muscle tissue down-regulates, you add high volume hypertrophy training, which in the long run activates AMPK and there is no nutrient excess to build muscle despite the high volume training. I just don´t know, this doesn't sound right from my perspective. Wouldn't cutting on lower volume strength phase be slightly more logical, considering that higher intensities activate mTOR and preserve muscle tissue?


     


    Q4) In terms of calories at the end of the 3-d strength mesocysle while deloading, should I a) eat maintenance, reverse diet, so by the end of the deload week I´m once again +500 over maintenance?


    Thanks in advance!


  • RekaReka ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015


    Ok, my next set of questions.


    Currently: week 2 of hypertrophy training, gym 4 times a week.

    Plan: 3 mesocycles of hypertrophy training, 5 weeks each, 4 week of training and 1 week deload, 15 weeks total, which is just under that 4 month max productive hypertrophy training (from my understanding).

    Second mesocycle will switch exercises for the "variability principle" benifits.

    Calories: +500 over maintenance, which is 4000-5000 kcal/day.


     


    Q1) Deload weeks - will still eat +500 over maintenance, however, should the last deload week be used to slightly reverse-reverse diet to maintenance calories, or this doesn't make a difference?


    Q2) Plan after massing: 3 mesocycles strength training, 1 mesocycle maintenance calories and slightly higher volume, because I heard Dr. Israetel saying, that abruptly lowering volume when switching from hypertrophy training may not be optimal for best newly grown muscle retention. Seems like a good idea. To implement or not?


     


    Q3) 2 and 3 strength mesocycles: lower volume strength training and cutting calories -500 to -1000 max per day to cut the fat gained while massing. Once again, second mesocycle will switch exercises for the "variability principle" benifits. NOW. I listened multiple times to a podcast with Dr. Israetel and Armi Legge regarding the 7 principles of training. In the end of the podcast, they discussed coupling calories to different training phases and there was a moment that was unclear to me. The idea was: hypertrophy training - hypercaloric eating, high volume; lower volume strength training - maintenance calories; cutting phase, HYPOcaloric eating, high volume hypertrophy training. The last part is the one that doesn't make sense to me. One goes hypocaloric, mTOR in muscle tissue down-regulates, you add high volume hypertrophy training, which in the long run activates AMPK and there is no nutrient excess to build muscle despite the high volume training. I just don´t know, this doesn't sound right from my perspective. Wouldn't cutting on lower volume strength phase be slightly more logical, considering that higher intensities activate mTOR and preserve muscle tissue?


     


    Q4) In terms of calories at the end of the 3-d strength mesocysle while deloading, should I a) eat maintenance B) reverse diet, so by the end of the deload week I´m once again +500 over maintenance?


    Thanks in advance!




     


    Q3 Not sure why they recommend that volume but my experience is that with training hard and concentrating your carb intake around your workouts and making sure you get enough protein during the whole day, you can stay hypocaloric for some weeks while maintaining strength, muscle and even energy. It requires some micromanaging but it works for me perfectly.


     


    Q4 You end the 3rd mesocycle hypocaloric, right? I wouldn't just jump back up to maintenance but use the reverse dieting and up calories by 100 per week. This will take longer but you can go back to above maintenance in a few months, not sure if that's suitable for your schedule, if not, you can try increase it twice a week by 100 kcal.


    It doesn't get easier... It's you who gets better.

     

    Is your social worker in that horse?

     

    Success has a price, not a secret.

  • Thanks for the reply!


    Q3 - one or two weeks high volume hypo-caloric training - probably not a big deal. However, two or three months - that's an overkill from my point of view and a ton of pissed away high volume training, which could have grown one some muscle mass, if one would eat hyper-calorically.


     


    Q4 - yep. If hypertrophy training wasn't a priority, I would do just that e.g reverse diet for a few months. I´ll most likely do the one-week reverse diet. I´m uncertain it will protect me from excessive fat regain, but then again that's whats cutting for =)))

  • Jason?


  • If hypertrophy is your concern, http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2015/07/are-bigger-muscles-better-antioxidants-and-the-response-to-exercise/


     


    The bias of the article is against hypertrophy, but you can still reverse engineer its conclusion for your own muscle gains. Building muscles that are both large and healthy is difficult. Your body would prefer muscle efficiency as opposed to sheer size. 


    Selected threads from the BP forum (Use your own signature to highlight threads that you think are important or significant)

  • Q4) My bad. If its my strength phase, 3´d mesocycle, deload week, should I still eat maintenance calories or gradually increase them, so by the end of the week I´m back to +500 and can start my next massing cycle. Or it just doesn't matter a lot?



    Thanks!


  • The #1 rule of bodybuilding is to take the time to know your body. Experiment with different exercises, positions, and ranges of motion.


     


    Don't get super caught up in how much weight you can lift. If your goal is to look good for muscle mass and muscle density, train with high volume, and try to get as much blood rushing into the muscles as possible. Go for the pump and the burn.


     


    #2 rule of bodybuilding: You need to be eating enough CALORIES. Even if you're eating 300 grams of protein a day, f you aren't getting enough calories, you won't grow. Period.


     


     


    I've trained like that for the past year and have gotten incredible results. Although I am not as strong as some of my friends and can't lift as much weight as they can (because they train heavier), visually I look a lot better because of my training style, and that's how I like it.


  • I'm new here and I don't really know all of the terminology used...However, I trained with weights for over 35 years and competed in bodybuilding competition for many years. I know what works for me now at my current age and how that has changed with each decade I've trained and how I train with lighter weights and much higher reps. As an example 20 years ago I would leg press with 1200 lbs for 5 or 6 reps...now I top out at 800 but do 20 reps. And I would be in the gym up to 2 hours a day (dumb) and the past 10 years I'm never in a workout for more than 45 minutes. I believe the real secret to progress is consistency and I was very fortunate to go to work in 1980 for Larry Scott...He won Mr America, Mr Universe and the first 2 Mr . Olympia contest. So I had a very good mentor early on.


  • I'm new here and I don't really know all of the terminology used...However, I trained with weights for over 35 years and competed in bodybuilding competition for many years. I know what works for me now at my current age and how that has changed with each decade I've trained and how I train with lighter weights and much higher reps. As an example 20 years ago I would leg press with 1200 lbs for 5 or 6 reps...now I top out at 800 but do 20 reps. And I would be in the gym up to 2 hours a day (dumb) and the past 10 years I'm never in a workout for more than 45 minutes. I believe the real secret to progress is consistency and I was very fortunate to go to work in 1980 for Larry Scott...He won Mr America, Mr Universe and the first 2 Mr . Olympia contest. So I had a very good mentor early on.




     


    Isn't advising people on how to lift without including the most important dietary recommendation - steroids - a bit irresponsible?

  • Isn't advising people on how to lift without including the most important dietary recommendation - steroids - a bit irresponsible?




    First...I haven't given recommendations on how to lift or any advise on diet...I gave an example of what has worked for myself only...In addition giving anyone, particularly a novice advise to use steroids is completely irresponsible.
  • What does your diet and training routine look like?

  • Who are you asking?




    Sorry I forgot to quote, I was asking barks.
  • Hey Jason...here's a few sites that I've given more details about my training...neither one is selling anything.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/bodybuilders/jeffb.htm


    http://www.getnarked.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-1003.html
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