Anyone Use Cold Packs Post-Workout ?

i've never used cold packs before.  recently i've started doing some exercises that i've never done before (mostly some crossfit/mma-type stuff) like kettlebell swings, cleans, push-presses etc   that have been causing post-workout pain/soreness in the delt/trap/collarbone areas.    i'm mid-40's so my recovery time isn't what it used to be .     so , regarding cold packs, what would be the specifics on using re: timing ... do i use immediately(within minutes) after the workout ?   Or is it ok to use the packs a few hours later or is that too late for max efficiency ?     Also can anyone recommend a particular brand (cost is no issue) cuz i know there are tons of brands out there...i'd want one that stays secure w/o slippage and one that stays cold the longest.     Thanx !


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  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited February 2015

    may be you don't need to use the cold packs...


    your post reminded me of the RICE (Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation) treatment.


    The guy that came up with that mnemonic was Gabe Mirkin. That was back in 1978, newer studies have shown that icing/cooling may actually delay healing (or at least not hasten recovery).


     


    I have not read these articles myself (yet), but here are a couple by Gabe Mirkin on the topic that may give you some other strategies;


    1. Why Ice Delays Recovery (2014)


    2. Ice Delays Recovery from Injuries (2013)


     


    edit: if you find anything helpful or interesting...post it up


    fake it till you make it

  • I have a cold 5 minute cold shower post work- out & cardio, then 2 hours later I sit fully emerged except face/head in an ice bath for 45minutes, been doing this protocol since last November.

    Also have a cold shower upon rising , pre w/o & when ever I can during the day, on the nights I don't have an ice bath I have a pre bed cold shower.


    Research Cold Thermogenises by Jack Kruse , it's a life changer.


  • I have a cold 5 minute cold shower post work- out & cardio, then 2 hours later I sit fully emerged except face/head in an ice bath for 45minutes, been doing this protocol since last November.

    Also have a cold shower upon rising , pre w/o & when ever I can during the day, on the nights I don't have an ice bath I have a pre bed cold shower.


    Research Cold Thermogenises by Jack Kruse , it's a life changer.




     


    Thanx Ablett...i've previously heard about cold thermogenesis but have never looked into it and really don't know anything about it...my only knowledge on this subject until today has been knowing that some athletes use ice baths post-workout/post-game to recover but i never looked into the science behind the process.   


    In a nutshell, could you give me a brief summary of Jack Kruse's book ?   Why for example a pre-bed cold shower would be superior to a warm one ?  Your personal daily routine sounds like you basically like to fit in as many cold-experiences(shower &/or bath) per day as possible...is it more important to do it on workout days versus rest days ?   

  • Thanx Ablett...i've previously heard about cold thermogenesis but have never looked into it and really don't know anything about it...my only knowledge on this subject until today has been knowing that some athletes use ice baths post-workout/post-game to recover but i never looked into the science behind the process.   

    In a nutshell, could you give me a brief summary of Jack Kruse's book ?   Why for example a pre-bed cold shower would be superior to a warm one ?  Your personal daily routine sounds like you basically like to fit in as many cold-experiences(shower &/or bath) per day as possible...is it more important to do it on workout days versus rest days ?




    Here's a start & click on some of the links for more info.

    http://jackkruse.com/cold-thermogenesis-easy-start-guide/
  • To me, listening to Jack and everyone else speak on ice bathing and the many forms of cold adaptation then listening to KStarr and the Marc Pro guys on ice I am torn. I personal have found no decrease in recovery time from ice bathing. I would ice bath for 40-60 mins and get my skin to 4-8*C, but still would be sore. Now there are tangible benefits to ice bathing that indirectly enhance recovery. Ice baths are a sleep hack on steroids. I work swing shift in a hospital as a nurse so my work week is 3.5days, one time I turned off the alarm look a little melatonin and slept post 60min ice bath with an achieved skin temp of 5*C. The results were a tripling in my deep sleep according to my zeo and a full 14hrs of rest, barely moving. It was a friggen coma. Deep sleep is increased by ice baths thus increasing all the restorative properties of sleep which enhances recovery. Its a hormetic stressor that doesnt tax your next work out. 


     


    For recovery I find carbs, compression like voodoo flossing and socks, and passive muscle electrical stimulation the best. If I am sore for more than one day and feel like I have CNS fatigue from something like after a big deadlift day or long KB HIIT workout I will up my carbs and lower my fat. 


     


    The compression like voodoo flossing is highly under rated for recovery. I feel like it literally squeezes out the lactic acid. This is limited to limbs obviously, so smashing the remainder with a PVC pipe or fancy rumble roller  is effective. 


     


    A MarcPro or Compex is an expensive invest that I somewhat regret. The MarcPro is not sensitive enough to go through any adipose (I am not thin) and it has limited settings (only intensity). From everything I read a Compex would have been better (Elite Sport Edition). 


     


    And a lesson taken from runners is active recovery. I like Tim Ferris's damage control protocol as well as light kettlebell work.


  • To me, listening to Jack and everyone else speak on ice bathing and the many forms of cold adaptation then listening to KStarr and the Marc Pro guys on ice I am torn. I personal have found no decrease in recovery time from ice bathing. I would ice bath for 40-60 mins and get my skin to 4-8*C, but still would be sore. Now there are tangible benefits to ice bathing that indirectly enhance recovery. Ice baths are a sleep hack on steroids. I work swing shift in a hospital as a nurse so my work week is 3.5days, one time I turned off the alarm look a little melatonin and slept post 60min ice bath with an achieved skin temp of 5*C. The results were a tripling in my deep sleep according to my zeo and a full 14hrs of rest, barely moving. It was a friggen coma. Deep sleep is increased by ice baths thus increasing all the restorative properties of sleep which enhances recovery. Its a hormetic stressor that doesnt tax your next work out. 

     

    For recovery I find carbs, compression like voodoo flossing and socks, and passive muscle electrical stimulation the best. If I am sore for more than one day and feel like I have CNS fatigue from something like after a big deadlift day or long KB HIIT workout I will up my carbs and lower my fat. 

     

    The compression like voodoo flossing is highly under rated for recovery. I feel like it literally squeezes out the lactic acid. This is limited to limbs obviously, so smashing the remainder with a PVC pipe or fancy rumble roller  is effective. 

     

    A MarcPro or Compex is an expensive invest that I somewhat regret. The MarcPro is not sensitive enough to go through any adipose (I am not thin) and it has limited settings (only intensity). From everything I read a Compex would have been better (Elite Sport Edition). 

     

    And a lesson taken from runners is active recovery. I like Tim Ferris's damage control protocol as well as light kettlebell work.




    Since I've introduced ice baths I'Ve been able to train effectively every day at a higher intensity, ice baths have been a big game changer for me, my only regret is not discovering ice baths a decade ago.


  • Since I've introduced ice baths I'Ve been able to train effectively every day at a higher intensity, ice baths have been a big game changer for me, my only regret is not discovering ice baths a decade ago.




    Have you done serial lab work to trend the hormetic response? I remember reading the IOC's report on Ice Baths to determine if it was a form of doping. For the life of my I cannot find the article again and regret not saving it. If I remember correctly ice baths had significant effects on inflammatory interleukin brain natriuretic peptide specific to heart stress and tumor necrosis factor alpha. It basically reduced what looked like from blood labs, exercise induced heart failure. Now the athletes dont have heart failure but the biomarkers for heart failure were elevated in these test subjects. Post Ice Bath (unsure of protocol) the labs returned to normal, not only that but the interleukins flipped to anti-inflammatory. 


     


    ioc = international olympic committee 

  • Have you done serial lab work to trend the hormetic response? I remember reading the IOC's report on Ice Baths to determine if it was a form of doping. For the life of my I cannot find the article again and regret not saving it. If I remember correctly ice baths had significant effects on inflammatory interleukin brain natriuretic peptide specific to heart stress and tumor necrosis factor alpha. It basically reduced what looked like from blood labs, exercise induced heart failure. Now the athletes dont have heart failure but the biomarkers for heart failure were elevated in these test subjects. Post Ice Bath (unsure of protocol) the labs returned to normal, not only that but the interleukins flipped to anti-inflammatory. 

     

    ioc = international olympic committee




    Be good to read that article!


    Getting blood tests done soon so it will be interesting to see the/if any changes since my last test mid 2014.


    Doctors will never promote it coz they can't precribe us a bag of ice although it won't be long before Chemists/Pharmacy will be the only place to obtain bags of ice so the Docs can have a win.
  • A cheaper way to make the ices is a five gallon bucket with salt, rubbing alcohol and epsom salt. This lowers the freezing point making the ice colder than if it were just water, if you can use the bucket than ziploc bags, or one gallon buckets or jugs like apple cider vinegar containers. 


  • How exactly do you guys go about taking your ice baths? Fill the tub with water and dump a bag of ice in? Thanks.
  • I purchased a 150gal animal trough made by rubbermaid from tractor supply. I am a big 5'9" and fit in it no problem, I also have taken a dip with my lady in the ice bath. I have a chest freezer that I put a 5 gallon bucket of salt water in, it generate 40ish # of ice for $1.... or what ever the salt cost me. 


  • How exactly do you guys go about taking your ice baths? Fill the tub with water and dump a bag of ice in? Thanks.




    Yes, I fill bath with tap water on its coldest setting then add 12kilos of ice , lay in bath fully immerged except head/face for 45 minutes minimum.
  • Icing is definitely a very controversial topic these days and I go more to that not icing side, especially in the case of injury.  There has been plenty of good research out there that it hurts your ability to heal and that things can go wrong quickly when adding cold to an injured area (this could be a whole other discussion).


     


    My go to for recovery is active movement in the same/similar motions that caused you to be sore.  Letting your body get this less intense muscle contractions will help you set up your lympathic system to re-absorb the "junk" that your body produces when you are working out or when you get injured.  Since the lympathic system is a passive system you are required to have this muscle contraction in order to help it.


     


    Ice bathing is another topic.  While I do not believe you get a vasoconstriction and vasodilation to "flush" all the debris and junk from your muscles there has been some good evidence out there about it's ability to help you recover by taking your body out of a sympathetic state and switching you to a parasympathetic state and thus setting your body up for a better chance to recovery and repair your tissues after a hard work. 


     


    The great debate continues.


    Joel Luedke MSe, ATC, CES, PES

    www.totalathletictherapy.com

    @TtlAthltcThrpy

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