Full Review Of The Ketonix Sport

http://bjjcaveman.com/2015/02/23/ketonix-sport-review/


 


Let me know what you guys think and if you find it helpful!


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Comments

  • NickatNickat
    edited February 2015

    Found it really very useful and thank you. We have one.


     


    The correlation of blood ketones measurements to that of the Ketonix Sport values do seem somewhat out in our experience though. Trying to blow at a steady rate and for a precise day to day can be difficult at first.


    We don't suffer from alternating humidity quite as badly as we thought and keeping taking the readings in the same room helps.


    The re calibrated sport edition has made some changes to the original for sure and although not immediate in reading the actual keto state right away, like that of the blood type, has proved a very useful tool indeed.


    Even having to wait at least an hour and a half or so after directly eating to take readings to see how the food type might have influence our keto state isn't that bad. The most annoying thing about it is waiting for the light to turn constant blue before it`s ready. The other is having to put it in the dust bag...lol.


     


    Do your ranges really show from your experience it`s ability of measuring Ketoacidosis on the Sport? Not sure that it really goes that high as in our experience it seems to measure the lower ranges of optimal ketosis rather than the higher ranges.


    It`s certainly not a reliable medical device we would use for anyone with Type 1 Diabetes, pushes the envelope for Type 2 in our opinion. For our diet it`s awesome as is your review. Thank you.


     


     


  • I have enjoyed all of your reviews, to date, on the Ketonix franchise.  It appears that they are operating under the assumption that serum beta-hydroxybutyrate is proportionate to blood.  Your experiments proved this to be false as an absolute statement, but you also showed that there was a relationship.


     


    Just so everyone knows, Bjjcaveman has give up not just time, but a considerable amount of money to pay for the test strips to show us the data.  I appreciate your sacrifice so that others can learn.




  • Found it really very useful and thank you. We have one.


     


    The correlation of blood ketones measurements to that of the Ketonix Sport values do seem somewhat out in our experience though. Trying to blow at a steady rate and for a precise day to day can be difficult at first.


    We don't suffer from alternating humidity quite as badly as we thought and keeping taking the readings in the same room helps.


    The re calibrated sport edition has made some changes to the original for sure and although not immediate in reading the actual keto state right away, like that of the blood type, has proved a very useful tool indeed.


    Even having to wait at least an hour and a half or so after directly eating to take readings to see how the food type might have influence our keto state isn't that bad. The most annoying thing about it is waiting for the light to turn constant blue before it`s ready. The other is having to put it in the dust bag...lol.


     


    Do your ranges really show from your experience it`s ability of measuring Ketoacidosis on the Sport? Not sure that it really goes that high as in our experience it seems to measure the lower ranges of optimal ketosis rather than the higher ranges.


    It`s certainly not a reliable medical device we would use for anyone with Type 1 Diabetes, pushes the envelope for Type 2 in our opinion. For our diet it`s awesome as is your review. Thank you.


     


     




     


     


    In my experience, I don't think this tool would be appropriate for someone worried about ketoacidosis. 


     


    For type 1 diabetics, ketoacidosis can spring up on you suddenly even if it's not diet related (like with abnormal stress, or illness), and is a life threatening condition, so I think you'd need something more accurate on an instant by instant basis.


     


    I mean... I guess knowing the trends would be helpful, but for folks susceptible to ketoacidosis they're probably already testing their blood glucose regularly, and that in itself will give them the moment by moment data they need.


     


    With my experience using the ketonix sport, even if it flashes red 5 times, that could mean that you're in deep ketosis with a blood ketone of 1.0 mmol or greater... AND it can also mean that you've already fallen out of ketosis with a blood ketone reading of 0.4 mmol....  so having that kind of range for something that can be life threatening just isn't helpful.


     


    I know I'm rambling a bit.. and can clear try to clear this up if you need.

    Check out my blogs 

     

    www.bjjcaveman.com

     

    www.theketorash.com

  • NickatNickat
    edited February 2015


     


    With my experience using the ketonix sport, even if it flashes red 5 times, that could mean that you're in deep ketosis with a blood ketone of 1.0 mmol or greater... AND it can also mean that you've already fallen out of ketosis with a blood ketone reading of 0.4 mmol....  so having that kind of range for something that can be life threatening just isn't helpful.


     




     


    Yes please. We kinda get the measures you took of the gases measured in nanomole/liter:


     


    The Ketonix Standard displays 4 different LED colors:


    • Blue:  0 – 150 nmol/L
    • Green:  150 – 400 nmol/L (Small)
    • Yellow:  400 – 930 nmol/L (Moderate)
    • Red:  > 930 nmol/L (Large)

    and you estimated Parts Per Million on this scale : 


     





    Blue ~ 0 – 5 ppm

    Green ~ 5 – 10 ppm  (with range of 10 flashes)

    Yellow ~ 10 – 20 ppm (with range of 10 flashes)

    Red ~ 20 – 40 ppm (with range of 10 flashes)





    But where does that relate to mM (millimolar measurements)?


     


    We have been working on the scale that fits at these blood ranges:


     


    Upper greens (7 or 8 blinks) seem perfectly optimal and yellow reaching starvation ketosis. Ten red flashes still within starvation ketosis at around 5 millimolars at most.  Ketoacidosis measurement then would be out of reach. A linear relationship seems to exist here for blood ketone measures. 


     


    Post for Nic for a measured 48 days showed:


     


    Day 1                   Blue                                   


    Day 2                   Green 3 flashes


    Day 3                   Green 5 flashes


    Day 4                   Yellow 7 flashes                                                                                    


    Day 5                   Green 7 flashes                


    Day 6                   Yellow 4 flashes


    Day 7                   Yellow 6 flashes                


    Day 8                   Green 5 flashes                


    Day 9                   Green 9 flashes


    Day 10                 Green 7 flashes


    Day 11                 Red    2 flashes                    


    Day 12                 Carb Day                                       


    Day 13                 Green 10 flashes                           


    Day 14                 Green 9 flashes


    Day 15                 Yellow 6 flashes                                                                                   


    Day 16                 Yellow 3 flashes


    Day 17                 Green 8 flashes


    Day 18                 Yellow 6 flashes                                                                                     


    Day 19                 Carb Day  Potato


    Day 20                 Green 9 flashes                                                                               


    Day 21                 Yellow 1 flash       Ketosis adapted body                                             


    Day 22                 Yellow 4 flashes                                                                                       


    Day 23                 Yellow 8 flashes                                                                                       


    Day 24                 Red    2 flashes                                                                                           


    Day 25                 Red 1 flash                                                                                               


    Day 26                 Carb Day


    Day 27                Yellow 2 flashes                                                                                        


    Day 28                Green 9 flashes                                                                                     


    Day 29                Yellow 7 flashes


    Day 30                Yellow 5 flashes                    


    Day 31                Yellow 8 flashes    


    Day 32                Green 9 flashes                                                                   


    Day 33                Carb Day           


     


    Decided to compare a few am to pm measures for a check.


     


    Day 34               1 Green flash am / 8 Green pm   


    Day 35               5 Green flashes   / 6 Yellow flashes                                                       


    Day 36               5 Green flashes  / 8 Green flashes


     


    Decided to eat Carbs and consume alcohol to see influence:


     


    Day 37               2 Green flashes / Ate Carbs + Alcohol  showed 5 Yellow flashes 


    Day 38                *8 Yellow Flashes am showing alcohol still there?


    Day 39               Steady Blue Ate Carbs


    DAY 40              Green 5 flashers


    DAY 41               Green 7 flashes                                                                                                   


    DAY 42               Green 6 flashes


    DAY 43               Green 6 flashes                                                                                               


    DAY 44               Green 8 flashes                                                                                    


    DAY 45               Yellow 3 flashes                                                                                    


    DAY 46               Steady Blue Ate Carbs


    DAY 47               Green 7 flashes       


    DAY 48               Green 6 flashes                                                                                                    


     


    Based on your comment then the measures could vary from deep ketosis to that of a blood ketone reading of zero. That`s interesting as body fat % has definitely fallen although body weight remains almost stable after the first 10 days. What`s going on in your eyes? Please ramble. 


  • Thanks for the review. Would i be possible to plot them against each other. Not as a time series plot, rather, blood ketone on the Y axis and ketonix on the X axis?

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  • Thanks for the review. Would i be possible to plot them against each other. Not as a time series plot, rather, blood ketone on the Y axis and ketonix on the X axis?




     


    Someone kindly did this here:


     


    http://i.imgur.com/09Gv4Ui.jpg

    Check out my blogs 

     

    www.bjjcaveman.com

     

    www.theketorash.com

  • edited March 2015

    As a possible alternative to what's available on the market, in the book Keto Clarity (pg. 94) there is a reference to a DIY breath ketone meter while looking for ketosis measurement options.  Here's the link: http://jenslabs.com/category/electronics/ketosis-detector/   If you know a bit about electronics, this could be a fun project!  Unfortunately, my DIY electrics skills only go as far as rewiring lamps, so I'll keep shopping!


  • Not much of a correlation then. Might not be zero but looks as 10-20%. There is no correlation coefficient given but if r=0.5 the Square (r^2=0.25) is the explained variation in percent (25% if r^2=0.25).

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  • NickatNickat
    edited March 2015

    10441382_945858228780755_381067170154531


     


    SOFTWARE AND FASTER CHARGE TIMES $95.00


     


    The software is designed to configure and retrieve values. Also make it more easy to manage several users by having profiles where the data is saved to. Calibrating the unit is also a great benefit as different environments could affect the previous models self calibration. It is also possible to adjust ranges to suit your capability.


    Beside the awesome feature to easily adjust and log the breath acetone, other interesting factors that can affect the ketosis can also be logged through the software, making variables easily compared at one place.

    To enhance the product for future version and provide data to study the effects on/from ketosis the user can agree to anonymously submit the data.


    Any study published from this data will be published on the www.ketonix.com site.


     


     


    F1.large.jpg


     


    Mean (±SEM) changes in breath acetone, plasma acetoacetate (AcAc), plasma β-hydroxybutyrate (β-HBA), and urinary acetoacetate. n = 12 subjects per time point. *Significantly different from 0 h (fasting), P < 0.05. The vertical dashed lines indicate the time points at which a ketogenic meal was consumed.


  • NickatNickat
    edited March 2015


    Not much of a correlation then. Might not be zero but looks as 10-20%. There is no correlation coefficient given but if r=0.5 the Square (r^2=0.25) is the explained variation in percent (25% if r^2=0.25).




     


    Could say the same about the urinary readings too. However peeing out excess is a little different to breath, in that breath is established ketones and not excess measured by-products.


    F4.large.jpg


  • phantasmphantasm
    edited April 2015


     


    Post for Nic for a measured 48 days showed:


     


    Day 1                   Blue                                   


    Day 2                   Green 3 flashes...


    DAY 48               Green 6 flashes                                                                                                    


     


    Based on your comment then the measures could vary from deep ketosis to that of a blood ketone reading of zero. That`s interesting as body fat % has definitely fallen although body weight remains almost stable after the first 10 days. What`s going on in your eyes? Please ramble. 




     


    Very good post!


     


    I'm experimenting with my Ketonix sport and may upgrade to the new one.


    I found that even after carb day I can squirt some MCT oil via medicine dropper into my throat, test with ketonix within 30min and register 6 green flashes.


    I tried again today after having some nuts and NOXplode and registered 4 green flashes.


    It seems that the sugars in the NOXplode are enough to get alcohol breath, or my ketonix is waaaay off the mark.


     


    Do you have the upgraded ketonix yet?


    I find the upgrade to be really expensive. Send back original (paid $139), pay an additional $95 for upgrade plus shipping to Sweden. The new unit costs $149 so that's basically just buying a new one.


     


    Body fat going down and body weight remaining the same could be attributed to muscle increase.


  • edited July 2015

    I have purchased and used the new 2015 model. The acetone levels are indicated by %,  colours and the number of flashes in that particular colour.


     


    My highest reading to date is 92% with eight red flashes. I have asked the manufacturer to supply me with a table showing % reading versus PPM Acetone. What seemed to me as being a normal and


     


    straight forward question has yet to be answered.


     


    I have searched around on the internet re this issue and can only find a collection data, but no firm up front data from the manufacturer. This leads me to believe that I have purchased a "cat in a sack".


     


    My own fault of course, but disappointing never the less.


     


     


    P.S


     


     I have recorded all results, sometimes with BHOB and BG values, meals etc




  • I have purchased and used the new 2015 model. The acetone levels are indicated by %,  colours and the number of flashes in that particular colour.


     


    My highest reading to date is 92% with eight red flashes. I have asked the manufacturer to supply me with a table showing % reading versus PPM Acetone. What seemed to me as being a normal and


     


    straight forward question has yet to be answered.


     


    I have searched around on the internet re this issue and can only find a collection data, but no firm up front data from the manufacturer. This leads me to believe that I have purchased a "cat in a sack".




     


    On https://www.ketonix.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38&catid=2&Itemid=117&lang=en is the ralation (at least now) shown.


    Ketonix2PPM.png

  • I've used / compared the Ketonix against blood ketones, and found it not to be very well correlated - especially at higher ketone levels in the blood (e.g. fasting).


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  • cortextcortext ✭✭
    edited November 2016

    I've been thinking about picking one of these up -- good investment, or useless investment? I have a Precision Xtra, but the strips are pretty expensive -- name brand strips from the US are around $5 per test, or ~ $2 if I go with generic from Canada and buy in bulk. When I'm testing, I do like to test often (eg. once in the morning, maybe again after exercise or a meal, and maybe in the evening.)

    I see that BHB and Breath Acetone aren't well correlated. Perhaps, this is useful in that a different device would allow me to measure a different form of ketone? I've read that Breath Acetone is a marker of current substrate usage (eg. Running on ketones) while BHB is more of a marker of having been in ketosis for a while and built up "Ketone Stores."

    I'm a bit of a gadget nerd. The main thing holding me back is that I've read the numbers can read high or low based on how you blow through the device, and they can read high or low depending on how many carbs you've eaten (eg. a high carb diet can read high ketones on this device.) I'm concerned that I'd get it and the data would be all over the place and useless for trying to draw any real conclusions about my diet or find trends.

  • Hmm, I'm also reading the ketonix reads high after eating fiber, so methane also messes it up.

  • After using it for a while, I think it's most helpful in terms of trends. Are you generally trending higher or lower?

    If you want an accurate spot measurement, it's definitely not it.

    I recently did a 15 day series of measurements with blood glucose, blood ketones, and ketonix breath acetone while doing a keto type Whole 30 diet:

    http://bjjcaveman.com/2016/11/29/whole30-days-1-15/

    You can see that there isn't very much correlation, although I'm sure if we stretched the trend out longer they might start matching up if you looked at a moving average...

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    www.theketorash.com

  • cortextcortext ✭✭
    edited December 2016

    @bjjcaveman said:
    After using it for a while, I think it's most helpful in terms of trends. Are you generally trending higher or lower?

    If you want an accurate spot measurement, it's definitely not it.

    Hmm, I'm definitely on the lower ketone side of things. I consume a high amount of fiber from lots of vegetables, and practice some intermittent fasting. I should be under 1mmol at most times (often, I've seen 0.4mmol BHB with a precision xtra without too much carb restriction), although I do throw in the occasional Brain Octane which should boost it up to some higher level. I haven't restricted carbs heavily in a while, but when I did I was in the mid 2 - 3.0mmol BHB range. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm a bit lower right now, since I'm a little freer with my carb intake and eating window than I've been in the past.

    I'd love to be able to get some sense of when I might be dipping in and out of ketosis and to what depth. It looks like the Freestyle B-Ketone strips from Canadian pharmacies are around $2.5 a test strip -- not too bad. Although, if I want to check in the morning and before or after dinner then run that for a week it's like $35 bucks and 14 bloody finger tips. Or, $100+ and a lot more finger pricking if I want to look at a bigger timeframe. Checking just here and there, it's fairly affordable.

  • Ketonix and blood test messure different ketones. From Ac-Co-A Acetoacetate (AcAc) is formed and from AcAc beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) is produced. AcAc isn't fully stable and loses acetone in a constant rate. Ketonix therefore shows blood AcAc where blood test show BHB. It's valuable to know both in many situations but to use one to estimate the other isn't the way to use it.

    I've done some guides on how to troubleshoot ketosis where you can learn more about how to draw information about the body state from AcAc and BHB messurements (question 7 in the video).

    http://www.blackbeltnutrition.org/7-popular-ketogenic-questions-nobody-seems-answer/

    Which Factors are Most Important for Strength Development? Find out on this episode with Black Belt Nutrition on Super Human Radio 

    The 5 Best & Worst Supplements - A free insider report from Black Belt Nutrition

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  • I came across this one as an interesting alternative... half the price (albeit a little more hacked together):
    http://www.ketometer.biz

    I wonder how the accuracy / data compares.

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