Where Can I Find A Product Like This For Cheaper?

SystemSystem mod
edited March 2015 in General Discussion

It's a Mark Sisson product. While I believe that it's an effective supplement, I have a feeling that I can buy a similar product elsewhere for a lot cheaper.


 


Here it is: http://www.primalblueprint.com/supplements/advanced-health-formula/


 


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Thanks


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Comments

  • Would love to know as well.
  • A worthy substitute would be a Thorne multivitamin and some of those other ingredients in individual supplements tailored to your needs.


     


    There are downsides to all in one supplements, such as unwanted ingredients and negligible dosages. 


  • Folic acid?


  •  


     


    There are downsides to all in one supplements, such as unwanted ingredients and negligible dosages. 




    Good point. I'm worried about that, as well.



  • You want a cheaper version of something not very good? I can pee in your mouth if you want. Haha.




    Lol. It's not good? That's disappointing to hear. I had Mark Sisson up there with Dave as someone whose product I automatically assume is of high quality.

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭


    Lol. It's not good? That's disappointing to hear. I had Mark Sisson up there with Dave as someone whose product I automatically assume is of high quality.




     


    I would have assumed that too, but folic acid is a disaster, and zinc and copper at the same time is questionable. Would not take. 


     


     




    You want a cheaper version of something not very good? I can pee in your mouth if you want. Haha.




     


    It's probably "expensive pee" with lots of unmetabolized high quality supplements in it... hmm. 

  • SystemSystem mod
    edited March 2015


    I would have assumed that too, but folic acid is a disaster, and zinc and copper at the same time is questionable. Would not take. 


     


     




    On a second thought, Sisson's variation of the Bulletproof coffee, which he calls the Primal Egg Coffee, is a disaster. So I probably shouldn't have assumed his products are great. He was low-key jealous of the hype Dave's BPC was commanding, so he tried to one-up him but failed miserably. 


     


    I'll pass on his overpriced mayo, as well, which is why I visited his site in the first place (someone here recommended it). 


  • I sometimes add yolks to my BPC, but I also throw in some lindt chocolate because raw yolks can be off putting sometimes.


  • I sometimes add yolks to my BPC, but I also throw in some lindt chocolate because raw yolks can be off putting sometimes.




    The problem with adding protein to your morning coffee is that it makes you hungry quicker, which kind of defeats the purpose of the "eat a lot of fats in the morning to keep you satiated until after 1 o'clock."

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭


    On a second thought, Sisson's variation of the Bulletproof coffee, which he calls the Primal Egg Coffee, is a disaster. So I probably shouldn't have assumed his products are great. He was low-key jealous of the hype Dave's BPC was commanding, so he tried to one-up him but failed miserably. 


     


    I'll pass on his overpriced mayo, as well, which is why I visited his site in the first place (someone here recommended it). 




     


    Sisson is in such robust (looking) health it makes me wonder if he's just genetically gifted and can do well if he gets diet and supplementation reasonably close to correct. He has a personal history of lifelong athletic competition with only the expected issues from overtraining, nothing catastrophic. Egg coffee, or this supplement, could be good for someone like that. Dave seems to be an outlier that requires getting everything perfect to be in good health.


     


    I suspect I lie on a spectrum between the two. That means I can get something from Sisson's general template while checking the details for errors, and I can get a lot from Dave while not being quite so strict. But I'd rather be less strict with something I get enjoyment out of, say, eating some cheese, vs. not getting my supplementation right.

  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭


    I'll pass on his overpriced mayo




    It is hella expensive, but it looks great. My wife's been wanting me to order some. Could probably just whip it up at home using the same ingredients, though.

    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

    Let's be friends on MyFitnessPal!

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭

    Dave's most recent newsletter extolling the virtues of coffee (and oddly seeming to stick only to the basics) directly recommended and linked to Mark Sisson's Primal Egg Coffee. As for Mark Sisson being jealous of Dave's branding of buttered coffee, the earliest post on MarksDailyApple mentioning Bulletproof Coffe that I could find with a mere casual search was from June 2011, in a comment discussed by readers on the bottom of an unrelated post. The article about Primal Egg coffee was put up in response to questions by MarksDailyApple readers asking Sisson if he had ever tried Bulletproof Coffee, and was posted in July 2013. In between the two instances there appears to be much discussion by both readers and staffers (including Sisson himself) about Bulletproof Coffee. Several coffee-centric articles on Mark'sDailyApple also mention Dave Asprey both in passing and with direct links. It looks like Sisson gives his reasoning behind changing up the fat profile, and in fact prefers mere coffee with cream, only devising the egg coffee as an experiment:


     


    "However, the idea of adding non-traditional fatty food items to coffee intrigued me, so I decided to explore other options. Eventually, I landed on eggs.


    Why eggs?...


    Egg yolks are excellent emulsifiers...


    Eggs are incredible sources of micronutrients...


    I love eggs, particularly the yolks, and enjoy adding them to everything...


     


    But why eggs and coffee?


    I stumbled upon something I had never heard of until recently – Vietnamese Egg Coffee – and decided to experiment in the kitchen..."


     


    There is obviously much more content filling in between those ellipsis, but that gives a basic outline. It appears he followed the same n=1 process that Dave did, and arrived at a slightly different destination. I find it interesting that both copied existing asiatic traditions. Neither brew is an entirely novel idea. Mark Sisson is obviously not marketing his Primal Egg Coffee, and this 2 year gap from hearing about Bulletproof to concocting Primal Egg seems like an oddly procrastinated jealousy. So much so that it seems like...not jealousy. 


     


    A further point I would like to make is this. Most of the people on here are trying out their own variations on Bulletproof Coffee and are not being labeled as doing so out of jealousy. Some even write about it on their own blogs. Most even seem to link to BulletproofExecutive. Mark Sisson also links to Bulletproof Executive. What is the difference here? Please explain why one is acceptable and one is not?


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015

    Also, what's this about the folic acid now?


     


    If you add up the price per ingredient (even assuming you are getting the lowest cost variety from a reputable retailer) you will come out much more expensive in merely the core vitamins alone to achieve the same 30 day supply. Anyone comparing this to other multivitamins?


  • SystemSystem mod
    edited March 2015


     


     


    There is obviously much more content filling in between those ellipsis, but that gives a basic outline. It appears he followed the same n=1 process that Dave did, and arrived at a slightly different destination. I find it interesting that both copied existing asiatic traditions. Neither brew is an entirely novel idea. Mark Sisson is obviously not marketing his Primal Egg Coffee, and this 2 year gap from hearing about Bulletproof to concocting Primal Egg seems like an oddly procrastinated jealousy. So much so that it seems like...not jealousy. 


     


    A further point I would like to make is this. Most of the people on here are trying out their own variations on Bulletproof Coffee and are not being labeled as doing so out of jealousy. Some even write about it on their own blogs. Most even seem to link to BulletproofExecutive. Mark Sisson also links to Bulletproof Executive. What is the difference here? Please explain why one is acceptable and one is not?




    It's because the motives are different. The posters on here who share their variations of their BPC use the same base that Dave uses (Coffee + MCT oil + GF butter), but they add a little extra -- be it cinnamon, or turmeric, or cayenne pepper. Sisson, by comparison, discourses upon how "he's not feeling the BPC" or how "it doesn't work for him" and comes up with his own formula (in an effort to one-up, imo) that isn't nearly as good.  The inclusion of sugar in his coffee makes zero sense. He tries to justify it by saying "it's only a little sugar." Why not use stevia or xylitol? 


  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭


    Also, what's this about the folic acid now?




    I remember John Brisson saying something about its being a synthetic derivative of folate, which leads to suboptimal absorption. Moreover, Dave posted this study in his supplements post and said that supplementing folic acid, rather than folate, may increase your risk of cancer.

    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

    Let's be friends on MyFitnessPal!

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited March 2015


    Also, what's this about the folic acid now?




     


    See the two MTHFR podcasts, 199 and 157. 


     


    1/3rd of the population has genes such that they cannot process synthetic folic acid into natural folate, and up to another third has trouble with it. If you're in the unlucky third, or even if you just have some trouble with conversion and have high exposure to folic acid, you can build up toxic levels of it – while remaining folate deficient. The US government never got this message, which is why folic acid is mandated as an additive in many grain products. 


     


    I haven't found large scale studies on this, but the biochemistry is very clear: if you lack the genes to produce certain enzymes, you won't be converting folic acid to its useful form. 


     


    This is why the bulletproof supplements post recommends folinic acid or 5-MTHF forms of folate. 


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015


    It's because the motives are different. The posters on here who share their variations of their BPC use the same base that Dave uses (Coffee + MCT oil + GF butter), but they add a little extra -- be it cinnamon, or turmeric, or cayenne pepper. Sisson, by comparison, discourses upon how "he's not feeling the BPC" or how "it doesn't work for him" and comes up with his own formula (in an effort to one-up, imo) that isn't nearly as good.  The inclusion of sugar in his coffee makes zero sense. He tries to justify it by saying "it's only a little sugar." Why not use stevia or xylitol? 




     


    ...because he likes a little sugar better than MCT oil and stevia? If Bulletproof Coffee doesn't do it for you, why would you drink it?


    (I also don't think he is trying to stay in ketosis 100% of the time, that wouldn't fit his personal Primal philosophy of adapting)


     


    His motive behind the Primal Egg Coffee experiment was just that, experimentation. He lays it out plainly, and you can search prior posts on coffee and see the constant subscriber comments about BPC. It hasn't been marketed or even mentioned much on his own site, so to say this was an attempt to one-up Bulletproof Coffee is one huge stretch. Mark Sisson knows how to market his products, and Primal Egg Coffee has seen more hype from people here than anywhere else. That's not how you one-up the core of someone else's brand image.


     


     


    Why is doing something differently a sign of jealousy? This is still a double standard here. To me it seems like the fact that Sisson is a high profile member of the current health landscape is one of the reasons behind this flack he is catching, rather than if this was a relatively unknown poster on this forum with his own private blog.


     


    A little example here. This person has not been mentioned much here (if at all) for their alternative to Bulletproof Coffee, and it's called...Bulletproof Turmeric:


    http://drlaurell.com/2014/06/30/bulletproof-turmeric-an-herbal-alternative-to-bulletproof-coffee/


     


    Another example here. This was linked to on this very forum, no huge outcry of "stealing the idea" or "one-upping" from anyone. Putting cannabis butter in your coffee makes no sense right?


    http://munchies.vice.com/articles/cannabis-infused-bulletproof-coffee-would-make-balzac-proud


     


    Does anyone have any reasons as to why doing something differently, discussing the original and directly linking to the original ideas is not acceptable when Mark Sisson does it but is acceptable when other forum users or individuals do it?


     


     


    Oh, anyone find it interesting that:


    Bulletproof Coffee = po cha (Tibetan yak butter tea)


    Primal Egg Coffee = cà phê trứng (Vietnamese Egg Coffee)


    and that there are also things like dawameska mentioned in the article linked above? 


     


    Looks like they are trying to one-up the Asian and Arabic coffee traditions, right?


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015


      The inclusion of sugar in his coffee makes zero sense. He tries to justify it by saying "it's only a little sugar." Why not use stevia or xylitol? 




     


    It could be that Mark Sisson, like myself, is a super taster. This does not mean a person is better per se, and comes with its own set of down sides. Such a person can potentially taste a chemical sharpness from stevia and xylitol, a soapy taste from cilantro, an acidity from ill-prepared coffee, the char from over-roasted coffee, a very bizarre acid quality from goat cheese, residue from certain kinds of soaps, etc. I have no idea if Mark Sisson is such a person, or to what degree he would taste these things, but it is an option. I myself cannot stand the chemical taste from stevia or xylitol, so I opt for raw local honey (~40 GI, does not cause insulin response) or coconut sugar (~70 GI, does not cause insulin response).


     


    What you're failing to look at here as well is the dose efficacy curve. Depending on your overall goal, a pinch of sugar in your coffee may not change a thing. It might knock you out of ketosis if you use enough, but probably not trigger an insulin response. If you have a set carb limit to your day, a pinch of sugar is easy to factor in there. We should start a poll and find out how many forum members sweeten their coffee and what they use. Maybe they are going for different effects from their coffee? Not everyone follows Dave's prescribed reasoning or methods religiously.


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