Bp Vs. Phd Keto

After experimenting with different diets over the years, I can't deny the powerful mental effects of having ketones fuel the brain. What I'm trying to determine is whether BP is optimal to Paul Jaminet's ketogenic diet recommendation in the Perfect Health Diet book. Essentially, as opposed to BP, you would eat the following on a daily basis: ~50g carbs from safe starches (more on exercise days), ~100g protein including 5g BCAA, unlimited veggies, and a minimum of 4 TBSP of MCT oil, all along with a 16 hour fasting window. So compared to BP, the average day is higher in carbs, same or slightly higher in protein, and lower in fat.


 


The other key differences between this and BP would be no refeeds, no loss of muscle glycogen, no keto breath, no copious amounts of sea salt. It's a low carb diet with the presence of ketones without the cyclical nature of BP. So if you wanted to lose weight, you'd eat those minimum macros, and then keep additional calories to a minimum so your body is forced to obtain its fat needs from stores in the body. Instead of fatty cuts of meat, you'd eat lean protein and seafood.


 


You could even implement the PHD keto diet within the context of BP (still having BP coffee, eating carbs only with your last meal, and obviously still eating the most BP types of food, etc).


 


I'm looking for reasons to choose one over the other. Any further thoughts on why one might be best? Has anyone experimented with both?


 


-Brandon


 


Comments

  • I haven't read the PHD book. 


    The Macros you mentioned sound fairly "Paleo".


     


    MY advice would be try both and find what works for you!


    Anything that cuts out crappy food is going to do well for you.


     


    Everyone is different, so what I find works may not be the same for you anyway.


     


    Rob




  • After experimenting with different diets over the years, I can't deny the powerful mental effects of having ketones fuel the brain. What I'm trying to determine is whether BP is optimal to Paul Jaminet's ketogenic diet recommendation in the Perfect Health Diet book. Essentially, as opposed to BP, you would eat the following on a daily basis: ~50g carbs from safe starches (more on exercise days), ~100g protein including 5g BCAA, unlimited veggies, and a minimum of 4 TBSP of MCT oil, all along with a 16 hour fasting window. So compared to BP, the average day is higher in carbs, same or slightly higher in protein, and lower in fat.


     


    The other key differences between this and BP would be no refeeds, no loss of muscle glycogen, no keto breath, no copious amounts of sea salt. It's a low carb diet with the presence of ketones without the cyclical nature of BP. So if you wanted to lose weight, you'd eat those minimum macros, and then keep additional calories to a minimum so your body is forced to obtain its fat needs from stores in the body. Instead of fatty cuts of meat, you'd eat lean protein and seafood.


     


    You could even implement the PHD keto diet within the context of BP (still having BP coffee, eating carbs only with your last meal, and obviously still eating the most BP types of food, etc).


     


    I'm looking for reasons to choose one over the other. Any further thoughts on why one might be best? Has anyone experimented with both?


     


    -Brandon




    What you describe as keto PHD sounds exactly like BPD to me. I personally think anyone not getting at least 30-50g/day of carbs from starch or sugar is just crazy. And anyone looking at the BPD thinking you shouldn't do that is misinterpreting. (All this is my humble opinion, maybe I am the one misinterpreting.)


     


    What I am about to write has to do with your questions which make it sound like you want to cut fat.


     


    I am currently 25. From January 2015 to July 2015 I went from 210lbs to 160lbs on a BPish low carb cyclical keto diet. To get to 160lbs I had to be in a calorie and carb restricted state. It was just impossible for me to keep that up. So Its now taking me a year to sort out and realize that I need to change my goals/priorities around a little bit and realize that I may never be able to get "the last 10-15lbs" off my waist and chest. The realization is being comfortable with extra body fat and to be able to enjoy some more carbs and try to use the carbs to fuel more workouts/exercise and try to pack on muscle instead of cut fat. 


     


    I don't know if this last paragraph really pertains to you, if it does I hope it helps. 

    Make, [then,] thyself to grow to the same stature as the Greatness which transcends all measure; leap forth from every body; transcend all Time; become Eternity; and [thus] shalt thou know God. Conceiving nothing is impossible unto thyself, think thyself deathless and able to know all,—all arts, all sciences, the way of every life.  – Corpus Hermeticum XI “The Mind of Hermes”



  • What you describe as keto PHD sounds exactly like BPD to me. I personally think anyone not getting at least 30-50g/day of carbs from starch or sugar is just crazy. And anyone looking at the BPD thinking you shouldn't do that is misinterpreting. (All this is my humble opinion, maybe I am the one misinterpreting.)


     


    What I am about to write has to do with your questions which make it sound like you want to cut fat.


     


    I am currently 25. From January 2015 to July 2015 I went from 210lbs to 160lbs on a BPish low carb cyclical keto diet. To get to 160lbs I had to be in a calorie and carb restricted state. It was just impossible for me to keep that up. So Its now taking me a year to sort out and realize that I need to change my goals/priorities around a little bit and realize that I may never be able to get "the last 10-15lbs" off my waist and chest. The realization is being comfortable with extra body fat and to be able to enjoy some more carbs and try to use the carbs to fuel more workouts/exercise and try to pack on muscle instead of cut fat. 


     


    I don't know if this last paragraph really pertains to you, if it does I hope it helps. 




     


    I think that's where personal physiology comes into play too. 


     


     


    I recently started tracking macros out of curiosity using MyFitnessPal.


     


    My macros for yesterday (which is an average day, though some days have a little more carbs and less fat) are:


    17g Carbs (3%)


    209g Fat (83%)


    80g Protein (14%)


     


    I was in a 500 Calorie deficit (and actually over-ate at dinner). 


     


    I feel amazing, ketone levels are awesome, and see no reason to change. 


    I do refeed on occasion though, and usually still manage to keep some ketones (and always get back into deep ketosis quickly).


     


    Hence my advice to try it and see. 


     


    I do agree there's little difference between them.


    The difference between 25g and 50g of carbs (in terms of actual food) is extremely low.


     


    Rob

  • It's so close that a variation is all about trial and error.  I found that BP works better for me once I get over the numbers and just follow my body within the guidelines.  I often worry I don't eat enough though, because I stop being hungry.  What works best for me, personally, is a little carb every night (even if it's a couple of raw carrots,) and not too much protein.  I pretty much live on Dave's proteins in smoothies and fish and eggs.  But for me, (being a woman,) carbs are key.


  • Thanks for all the insight guys.


    My goals are pretty much in line with most people here I think -- cutting down on fat (and inflammation) and adding muscle. I made this post because, for me, having 30-50g of starch on a nightly basis in addition to my veggies seems to take me out of deep metabolic ketosis.


    I have not been sure whether to interpret BP as a true cyclical ketogenic diet (trying to induce deep ketosis for up to a week at a time) vs. daily dips in and out of ketosis. Based on Dave’s old articles and podcasts, it seems like he used to favor the former but now leans towards the latter.


    I was able to lose fat when doing 4-5 days of straight keto -- avoiding starch/sugar, moderating protein, and eating as many veggies and fat calories as I wanted, but my sleep quality and gym performance really suffered. And when I tried adding in the nightly 30g of starch (which took me out of deep ketosis), my sleep quality improved greatly but I was putting on fat because I still ate a really high amount of calories from fat (macadamias, coconut milk, etc).


    So I’m trying to decide between an approach of a true cyclical ketogenic diet where fat calories are unrestricted vs a low carb non-ketogenic diet where fat calories should be somewhat restricted (e.g. PHD keto). For the latter, ketones would still be present much of the time through MCT oil, but I don’t think you would experience the negative side effects of true metabolic ketosis such as loss of muscle glycogen, bad breath, etc.


    I'm going to try cutting back a lot on the daily fat (moreso within Dave's suggested range of ~9-10 servings a day...I was eating twice that!) and try upping the number of days I have 30g carbs in a given a week (plus a refeed 1 or 2 times per week). In the 2 week protocol outlined in the book, he has carbs in about half the dinner recipes, plus the once a week protein fast...this overall approach would also be pretty similar to PHD keto.


    Thanks again,

    Brandon


  • Honestly I think down the line the bulletproof deal is pretty dependent on usage of Brain Octane and strategic fasting to get quickly into keto, once fat adapted for some time.


     


    I'm pretty sure I can get into ketosis in maybe a day or sometimes a bit longer.


     


     


    I'm in your similar camp where I workout a fair bit and wasn't really building much muscle.. I upped carbs a bit and added a little bit more protein and that helped a lot. --- I'd say just stick to bulletproof but add in more carbs weekly.


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