Is Bulletproof Coffee Full Of Lies? Or Outdated Info?

https://youtu.be/rwY4H3cNTH0


The issue that we all know about toxins might be outdated or just incorrect. Watch the video of Joe Rogan and Dr. Rhonda Patrick and maybe get a better idea of what's going on. I'm pretty hurt at the findings.

Comments

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited July 2015


    https://youtu.be/rwY4H3cNTH0


    The issue that we all know about toxins might be outdated or just incorrect. Watch the video of Joe Rogan and Dr. Rhonda Patrick and maybe get a better idea of what's going on. I'm pretty hurt at the findings.




     


    Hi Bogdis. Like you, this video brought many new people to the forum last year when it was released, and in fact about a month before when the original podcast (not the 13 minute excerpt) was released. We had an exhaustive and at times contentious thread about it, which is now locked, mainly because so many people kept coming in outraged about what they'd heard and didn't read the whole thread but still commented. 


     


    You can read the whole 21 page thread starting here. Because it was so long, I wrote up a whole-thread summary of things we actually have data on which you can find here


     


    Personally, I like Joe Rogan, and I think Rhonda Patrick is playing for the right team, but is a little overly focused on published human studies. If you read my summary, you'll see a lot of the mycotoxin data we have is in pigs – after all it would be immoral to deliberately expose humans to high levels even in a scientific study. The root of their argument seems to be they did one standard test of a few different coffees, didn't find mycotoxins, and point out that the government has limits for safety anyway and nothing sold is going to be above those limits. IMO they miss the detail of Asprey's argument: that the limits are too high, and therefore standard tests are not sensitive enough to pick up trace amounts of mycotoxins. At the end of the day, skeptics should run their own experiment using the tools at Quantified Mind to see if they can discern a difference between Upgraded beans and other sources. For me, the information on mycotoxin synergy in pigs at http://www.knowmycotoxins.com/is enough for me to attempt to avoid them, but I don't seem to be sensitive to it, so I don't freak out about the occasional trip to Starbucks. Essentially, in pigs in agricultural experiments, multiple different mycotoxins, all below acceptable limits, have a synergistic effect with obvious negative results. One of which is damage to the organs that are used to process mycotoxins, which is my theory as to why people who can handle mold become much more sensitive after living in moldy houses. So if humans are like pigs (and we are fairly similar as compared to other livestock,) then government limits for individual mycotoxins are not good enough, because they don't take into account they're synergistic effect or their cumulative damage in some individuals over time. 


  • Hi, Bogdis.  Welcome to the forums!


     


    Dr. Patrick specialized in annelids, not coffee and she pretty much tells Joe that she only knows a little bit about it.  She said that Dave provides good information, but he misinterpreted the "Swedish study" study.


     


    This all resulted from a botched business deal between Dave and Tait Fletcher.  Tait pretended to want to partner up with Dave an advertise Bulletproof Coffee at the Crossfit Games.  There are different accounts of what actually happened, but Tait ended up cutting Dave out of the dead and he launched his own "mycotoxin free" coffee.  There was a thread that was started a while back here in the Bulletproof Forums where a poster wrote about the new coffee.  Dave posted that Tait's coffee and MCT were inferior to his.  Tait was offended that Dave would post such a thing responded by saying that Dave's coffee contained "a couple" of mycotoxins.  Dave regrets posting on that thread, which is pretty much why he never posts here anymore.  Joe Rogan did a test with a total of three samples and believes that it is statistically relevant.  Onnit discontinued Bulletproof coffee and now sells Tait's coffee instead.  Joe and Tait are good friends, in fact Tait introduced Dave to Joe.


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


     Onnit discontinued Bulletproof coffee and now sells Tait's coffee instead. 




     


    Onnit has also done a soft-launch of their own Onnit brand coffee, roasted in Austin. Onnit was still selling Bulletproof/Upgraded coffee until their closeout sales at the beginning of this summer, around the time their Matcha Chai Latte Tea launched officially and their dark roast had its soft launch to subscribers.


     


    Just to provide more accurate understanding of the sales history at Onnit (thankfully I haven't cleared my inboxes in a while and have everyone's news letters!) ;)  


     


     


    Links:


     


    https://www.onnit.com/onnit-coffee-arabica-dark-roast/


    https://www.onnit.com/onnit-whole-spice-matcha-chai-latte-tea/


    https://www.onnit.com/onnit-coffee-caveman-colombian-amber/

  • I think sometimes people overlook anecdotal evidence too much and make rash decisions from videos like this too. 


     


    Feel awesome = keep doing it. 


    Don't feel awesome = don't keep doing it. 


     


    I do very different things to when i first learned about nutrition affecting health (thanks to a very advanced-for-its time book called the Spartan Health Regime by an Aussie - Anthony Bova - largely based on Weston A Price research) about 10yrs ago. What he wrote isn't suddenly wrong, but new ideas come to light. 


     


    At the end of the day the basis around all this stuff is real food from real sources. 


    Get that bit right, and the semantics are less important.


     


    Rob


  • WalterWalter ✭✭✭

    Use Onnit if you don't wanna restrict your gains. But use Bulletproof if you want to be able to take a couple of rounds.


     


    B)


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited July 2015


    I'm on the fence about buying a few Onnit t-shirts. On the one hand, I like Rogan (despite my criticizing him on this board, i think listening to his show has changed my life for the better) and think the shirts are cool. On the other hand, I hate that the company is affiliated with Tait Fletcher and Mike Dolce. 




     


    Then this will really cause some indecisive purchasing:


     


    Regardless of which company's promotional t-shirt you buy, the manufacturing process involves some sort of human exploitation. Until you find a company that guarantees that their promotional shirts are made under an equal exchange program from 100% fair-trade hemp fibers, made in the U.S.A. or Canada by highly-paid seamstresses who are card-carrying Textiles Union members, with zero environmentally hazardous chemicals involved in the dye process, shipped in recycled cardboard boxes by local small-business couriers, then how will you really know they are free of anything you should hate? Oh wait...where were the sewing machines used by the seamstresses made? Where were the dyes manufactured? What was the socio-economic status of the workers at the dye factory, or the sewing machine plant? Did you order these on an iPad or Macbook Air made by Foxxcon employees? Or a Samsung product utilizing underpaid workers? Did your device contain rare-earth minerals from conflict zones?


     


    In lieu of all the possible atrocities associated with the actual production of the t-shirt you will be buying, how horrible are Tait Fletcher's actions, or Mike Dolce's actions? If they did something to make you hate them, is your hatred of the massive human exploitation that made it possible for you to even know of Onnit's t-shirt offerings even on the same level? Who is more deserving of such hatred, Tait, Mike, the unnamed people who exploit your fellow humans, Joe, the Onnit empoyees? Do all these factors outweigh the value of a comfortable, excellent fitting, snazzy looking t-shirt?


     


     


     


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    Oh, and Onnit t-shirts are currently 40% off, so why not??


  • edited July 2015

    Has Dave ever posted test results showing the level of mycotoxins in his Upgraded Coffee? I love bulletproof style coffee but I do not use the Bulletproof Coffee. I like the info on biohacking Dave provides but I remain skeptical of brands claiming "mycotoxin free" but fail to show evidence of it.


     


    Can any of y'all aware me on why mycotoxins are such a big deal? Don't we consume small amounts of them from various sources? I understand that drinking mycotoxin free coffee will reduce your mycotoxin exposure, but if I'm not sensitive to it should I even care? Slight stresses on the body can be good for you and boost your immune system (vaccines, working out, ect.).


     


    From what I've seen, it seems like Dave is blowing up the mycotoxin severity to sell more of his "mycotoxin free" coffee. With the time and energy special coffee roasters now have in their coffee beans, I highly doubt they don't take measures to eliminate mycotoxins. 


    Brethren, dost thou even hoist?

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭


    I'm on the fence about buying a few Onnit t-shirts. On the one hand, I like Rogan (despite my criticizing him on this board, i think listening to his show has changed my life for the better) and think the shirts are cool. On the other hand, I hate that the company is affiliated with Tait Fletcher and Mike Dolce. 




     


    Then just buy a Higher Primate or RUN JRE shirt. 

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited July 2015


    Has Dave ever posted test results showing the level of mycotoxins in his Upgraded Coffee? I love bulletproof style coffee but I do not use the Bulletproof Coffee. I like the info on biohacking Dave provides but I remain skeptical of brands claiming "mycotoxin free" but fail to show evidence of it.


     


    Can any of y'all aware me on why mycotoxins are such a big deal? Don't we consume small amounts of them from various sources? I understand that drinking mycotoxin free coffee will reduce your mycotoxin exposure, but if I'm not sensitive to it should I even care? Slight stresses on the body can be good for you and boost your immune system (vaccines, working out, ect.).


     


    From what I've seen, it seems like Dave is blowing up the mycotoxin severity to sell more of his "mycotoxin free" coffee. With the time and energy special coffee roasters now have in their coffee beans, I highly doubt they don't take measures to eliminate mycotoxins. 




     


    To my knowledge Dave has not released the test data. My post on why releasing the test data would give away his intellectual property here


     


    Humans are good at dealing with acute toxicity, not so much chronic low-level toxicity. This is the difference between the college student with alcohol poisoning on Friday night who's fine on Sunday, and the guy with cirrhosis of the liver who never gets wasted but drinks daily. If you don't experience obvious symptoms, you can still be dealing with low-level issues, and in the case of mycotoxins they might degrade your ability to process mycotoxins over time. I don't seem to be mycotoxin sensitive, but the research I did convinced me I should make at least a minimal effort to avoid them. I summarized it here, and also a bit in the whole thread summary I linked to in my last post in this thread. 


     


    Why would coffee roasters take measures to eliminate mycotoxins if the government sets limits (that are too high) on all imported beans and there is no economic incentive? 


  • edited July 2015


    To my knowledge Dave has not released the test data. My post on why releasing the test data would give away his intellectual property here


     


    Humans are good at dealing with acute toxicity, not so much chronic low-level toxicity. This is the difference between the college student with alcohol poisoning on Friday night who's fine on Sunday, and the guy with cirrhosis of the liver who never gets wasted but drinks daily. If you don't experience obvious symptoms, you can still be dealing with low-level issues, and in the case of mycotoxins they might degrade your ability to process mycotoxins over time. I don't seem to be mycotoxin sensitive, but the research I did convinced me I should make at least a minimal effort to avoid them. I summarized it here, and also a bit in the whole thread summary I linked to in my last post in this thread. 


     


    Why would coffee roasters take measures to eliminate mycotoxins if the government sets limits (that are too high) on all imported beans and there is no economic incentive? 




     


    There are definitely monetary incentives. These specialty coffee people enjoy being 'coffee snobs'. The current Third Wave coffee movement comprises of micro-roasters doing the same single-origin sourcing Dave is doing. These are all coffee nerds who make it their life mission to create a close personal relationships with their coffee farmers and take every measure to make their beans be higher quality and superior tasting than their specialty coffee competitors, so the monetary incentive is there. There are many legit specialty coffee roasters who are very open about every detail about their coffee beans: where they get their beans, what farm they come from, what elevation the beans are grown at, how they process their beans etc. The world of specialty coffee is definitely beyond my coffee knowledge, but they put every possible variable into consideration. They don't mess around with coffee man. 


     


    In regards to your post about the reasoning of secrecy. I still don't understand how people can blindly believe a claim of "mycotoxin free" without proof. It's like a car company saying," Our new car is the safest car in the world, but we don't want to publish our crash test because it will leak our proprietary safety features. Our car will keep you 100% safe and other cars are death traps. Just take our word for it. We promise..... Srsly we promise so don't worry about it"


     


    Nah brah, I need the test results.


    Brethren, dost thou even hoist?

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭


    There are definitely monetary incentives. These specialty coffee people enjoy being 'coffee snobs'. The current Third Wave coffee movement comprises of micro-roasters doing the same single-origin sourcing Dave is doing. These are all coffee nerds who make it their life mission to create a close personal relationships with their coffee farmers and take every measure to make their beans be higher quality and superior tasting than their specialty coffee competitors, so the monetary incentive is there. There are many legit specialty coffee roasters who are very open about every detail about their coffee beans: where they get their beans, what farm they come from, what elevation the beans are grown at, how they process their beans etc. The world of specialty coffee is definitely beyond my coffee knowledge, but they put every possible variable into consideration. They don't mess around with coffee man. 


     


    In regards to your post about the reasoning of secrecy. I still don't understand how people can blindly believe a claim of "mycotoxin free" without proof. It's like a car company saying," Our new car is the safest car in the world, but we don't want to publish our crash test because it will leak our proprietary safety features. Our car will keep you 100% safe and other cars are death traps. Just take our word for it. We promise..... Srsly we promise so don't worry about it"


     


    Nah brah, I need the test results.




     


    It's a different business model. A nice coffee place wants to have many varieties, all with great flavor profiles. If they have to start discontinuing many of their estates and roasts, it hurts their bottom line. And they'd probably have to if they did extensive testing. Upgraded beans are rather bland, but the value isn't in the flavor. 


     


    You can run your own performance test using the tools at Quantified Mind. Just compare how you perform on a high altitude single origin, a blend focusing on flavor, and Upgraded beans. 

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