Anti-Vaxxers Accidentally Fund A Study Showing No Link Between Autism And Vaccines

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  • Maybe one day they will build a vaccine that doesn't have chemicals in it to satisfy both sides of this never ending battle.


  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015



     


    One study does not prove anything. Primates were not given both vaccinations or multiple vaccinations that human babies get all at a time. In addition it was not done on humans.


     


    I am not going to say that vaccines strongly cause autism, but it is possible that they can contribute to it compared to everything else wrong with their environment.


     


    Both groups are stupid. To say vaccines are extremely safe is wrong and to say they do not work (except the flu shot) and are 100% dangerous is wrong as well.


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  • The whole article is ridiculous.  How do you accidentally fund something?  "uuuuh...we thought we were donating to the Michele Bachmann campaign."  They funded a study.  The study turned out to not have the results that they were looking for to meet their political agenda.  That's what happens when you are being motivated by other factors besides scientific curiosity.  Studies are not meant to be investments.


     


    John is right.  We will never prove that vaccinations do not cause autism just like we will never prove that there is no Bigfoot.  This is because P ⇒ Q, ¬Q ⊢ ¬P is faulty logic.


     


    The same is true of vaccine effectiveness.  Even in the most effective attenuation made, sometimes they don't provide immunity.  Unlike Bigfoot, we can find evidence of this.  Vaccines are not a miracle drug - nothing is.  Sometimes there are side effects and complications.  Every person should have the right to measure the *actual risk* (not the propagandized nonsense from the mouths of politicians) and make their own choices based on the available data.


     


    I might actually get a flu shot this year.  There is only an 18% chance that it will give me immunity from the flu, but I also have an infant at home.  The flu could be fatal to my son, so it may be worth it since the chances of complications are about 3% for my demographic.  Since 18 > 3, it might be worth it.


  • edited October 2015

    I see the CDC groups influenza with pnumonia and was wondering what the modern infant mortality numbers from influenza are in the US? 


     


    What ever happened to trusting our immune system, and that catching a cold or getting the flu naturally makes your virus solving foundation that much stronger?  Pedialyte and a mother's nurturing care are amazing.


     


    A good friends wife recently had to either be let go, or consent to forced vaccinations at her hospital-related job, and seems to be sick at a much higher rate than pre-vaccinations/flu shots.  She is miserable now and is constantly complaining about it.


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  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

    I work at a hospital as well, and I think I might bite the bullet and get the flu shot this year. They're still giving us the option of foregoing it, but we have to wear a mask whenever we're in the building. I did that last year and it sucked. The flu shot has its problems. The shot they offered last year ended up not covering the strains that were common in our part of the country, IIRC. This happens sometimes. But I don't think that there's any real "danger" to getting the shot, unless you just so happen to be that really unlucky one-in-a-million who reacts badly to it.


     


    If I go through with it, I'm probably going to take some supplements to counteract the brief immune system downregulation. I don't like it, but it's easier than the alternative. And I don't feel like there's much risk involved. While I personally don't mind fighting off the flu and giving my immune system stat a +1, I understand why a hospital would want employees vaccinated.


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  • There were 140 deaths from influenza out of 4 million births last year, so roughly 0.0035%.  The overall infant mortality rate was 0.06%, so about 6% of all infant deaths were documented as caused by influenza.  The interesting thing would be to find out, of them, how many were given the vaccine, and how many of their parents were given the vaccine.  Then, discover other factors like daycare, and other public exposure, verses contracting the disease from the parents.  So, I suppose 18 > 3 is an oversimplification. 


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015


    The whole article is ridiculous.  How do you accidentally fund something?  "uuuuh...we thought we were donating to the Michele Bachmann campaign."  They funded a study.  The study turned out to not have the results that they were looking for to meet their political agenda.  That's what happens when you are being motivated by other factors besides scientific curiosity.  Studies are not meant to be investments.




    The title of the article is pointing out the irony inherent in the findings. The anti-vaxxer groups constantly complain that all the studies on vaccines that show no evidence for a causal link with autism are "funded by Big Pharma". The studies that they have funded themselves have historically used a particular hand-picked group of doctors and scientists, and continually showed sloppy science and cherry-picked data. This particular study was the SafeMinds organization's attempt at funding their own large-scale study to back up their claims with third-party science, because of course all industry studies would back up Big Pharma!


     


     


     


    A shorter version: SafeMinds though they were funding a study to prove a causal link between vaccines and autism. The study they funded showed no causal link. Thus they "accidentally" showed that they have no causal link.


     


    It's good journalism. Don't get too hung up on the title.


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    One study does not prove anything. Primates were not given both vaccinations or multiple vaccinations that human babies get all at a time. In addition it was not done on humans.


     


    I am not going to say that vaccines strongly cause autism, but it is possible that they can contribute to it compared to everything else wrong with their environment.


     


    Both groups are stupid. To say vaccines are extremely safe is wrong and to say they do not work (except the flu shot) and are 100% dangerous is wrong as well.




    This is not just one study proving something. This is a study that finally meets the "not-funded-by-Big-Pharma" complaint that anti-vaxxers have had with all the other studies that have been done over the, oh, last hundred years of vaccine development!


     


    Fact is, we have the largest real-world field test of the effectiveness of vaccines in action right now. The developed world is vaccinated. We can study the humans. We can study the autism. The purpose of using lab animals is to study an entire generation in a relatively short amount of time.


     


    The contention here is not that vaccines are "extremely safe" vs "do not work", it is the claim that "vaccines cause autism". In all seriousness the large needle they inject the vaccine into you with is probably more likely to injure you than the vaccine.


     


     


     


    In my opinion the largest factors surrounding autism that are overlooked are:


     


    1. Expansion of the diagnosis criteria and the clinical definition of autism.


     


    2. Changes in our environment over the last 100 years.


     


    3. Gradual shift in average age of first pregnancy.


     


    4. The age of the onset of autism symptoms does not necessarily indicate causation.


     


    and are not centered around ethyl mercury or the MMR vaccine. 

  • Thimerosal (ethyl mercury) has not been used in childhood vaccines in the US since 2001.  I don't know why they are still running studies on this unless they are hoping to put it back in the vaccines.


     


    I have worked in many public school districts, I work with a lot of children, and I am privy to the medical reports of thousands of students each year.  The rise in autism diagnoses are the result of the No Child Left Behind Act and ARD protocols.  It is the same thing with ADD/ADHD.  The students really haven't changed since I have been teaching, only the law has changed.  Now, the process for identifying cognitive disorders is standardized and suddenly everyone has autism, ADD, dyslexia, and is on medication (not everyone, but probably close to 80% of my 10-year-olds take daily medication).  So, if 80% of the population is afflicted, who has the disorder?  Is the other 20% "normal?"


  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015


    probably close to 80% of my 10-year-olds take daily medication




    I really hope that's an exaggeration, man. Because that's horrific.


     


    I'm only 27, but it's insane how much things have changed in schools since I was a youngin'. Save for the occasional asthmatic, I can't remember kids at school ever having to take regular meds. I plan to homeschool my kids, and when I hear about things like this, I can't imagine doing it any other way.


     


    Edit: If you guys did an episode of the FYG livestream on this, it'd make for a dynamite listen.


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  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭



     


     


    That's how science actually works... and I find it great that they are so honest about the results.

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  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015


    Thimerosal (ethyl mercury) has not been used in childhood vaccines in the US since 2001.  I don't know why they are still running studies on this unless they are hoping to put it back in the vaccines.


     


    I have worked in many public school districts, I work with a lot of children, and I am privy to the medical reports of thousands of students each year.  The rise in autism diagnoses are the result of the No Child Left Behind Act and ARD protocols.  It is the same thing with ADD/ADHD.  The students really haven't changed since I have been teaching, only the law has changed.  Now, the process for identifying cognitive disorders is standardized and suddenly everyone has autism, ADD, dyslexia, and is on medication (not everyone, but probably close to 80% of my 10-year-olds take daily medication).  So, if 80% of the population is afflicted, who has the disorder?  Is the other 20% "normal?"




    The entire "issue" surrounding Thimerosal is propagated by the ridiculous anti-vaxxer groups, as is the "issue" surrounding the MMR vaccine. That is why they are funding studies based on these faulty correlations. Nobody that I know of wants to put Thimerosal back in vaccines due both to the newer preservative options and to the PR nightmare it would bring.


  • I think flu shots are money making scam really. I never had a flu shot once in my life, and never once contracted the flu.


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015


    I think flu shots are money making scam really. I never had a flu shot once in my life, and never once contracted the flu.




    Can you explain the profit model that is operating when selling flu shots and how that offsets the R&D, manufacture, logistics, marketing and advertising costs?


     


    (By the way, that's called a non-causal correlation. Avoiding flu shots did not prevent you from getting the flu.)


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