Joint Pain, From The Gut

My daughter has rheumatoid arthritis, so articles like this always catch my eye.  It is also interesting for information about research involving the microbiome, in general.  The researcher doubts that probiotics are helpful; he thinks they probably don't survive the digestive process.  Thoughts?


Comments

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭

    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

    http://www.fixyourgut.com

     

  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭
    What do you do to inhibit klebsiella, John?

    Low starch diet?

    May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

    How much to eat:
    advanced | How to train: bulletproof training | HRV: HRV FOR TRAINING HRV BASICS What Affects HRV | Brain  & Memory dual n back training advanced training

     

     

  • Jose Scher, author of the study above, who is the Director of NYU's Microbiome Center for Rheumatology and Autoimmunity, said:


     


    “In 10 or 15 years I think the microbiome will be a key therapeutic option for some of these diseases,” he says. “There will be challenges, but I don’t see why it can’t happen. This isn’t science fiction.”  10 or 15 years?  It would seem that your work is cutting edge, John Brisson, and ahead of its time.  


     


    The article also says:  "Scher puts more faith in modifying the microbiome through diet (rather than probiotics - see above)".  He notes that some patients with RA have benefitted from cutting out meat, or adopting a Mediterranean diet.  This has certainly been true for my daughter.  Meat will cause a flare for her, as well as gluten, to a lesser degree.  


     


     Questions for you:


     


    Like Dman, I would also like to know what inhibits klebsiella.


     


    The study above claims that people with RA are much more likely to have a bug called Prevotella Copri.  Any way to inhibit that?


     


    Interestingly, later in the article, it states that another type of Prevotella , P. histicola,  can prevent or halt mouse versions of RA and 


    MS.   Would it be worthwhile for a patient to try and incorporate this bacteria in his/her diet?  Is that possible?


     


    As always, your sharing of your knowledge is most appreciated.


  • I addressed the questions above to John Brisson, but there are so many knowledgeable people here.  Please contribute your opinions...I am always looking for ways to help my daughter.  Thanks.  


  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015


    Jose Scher, author of the study above, who is the Director of NYU's Microbiome Center for Rheumatology and Autoimmunity, said:


     


    “In 10 or 15 years I think the microbiome will be a key therapeutic option for some of these diseases,” he says. “There will be challenges, but I don’t see why it can’t happen. This isn’t science fiction.”  10 or 15 years?  It would seem that your work is cutting edge, John Brisson, and ahead of its time.  


     


    The article also says:  "Scher puts more faith in modifying the microbiome through diet (rather than probiotics - see above)".  He notes that some patients with RA have benefitted from cutting out meat, or adopting a Mediterranean diet.  This has certainly been true for my daughter.  Meat will cause a flare for her, as well as gluten, to a lesser degree.  


     


     Questions for you:


     


    Like Dman, I would also like to know what inhibits klebsiella.


     


    The study above claims that people with RA are much more likely to have a bug called Prevotella Copri.  Any way to inhibit that?


     


    Interestingly, later in the article, it states that another type of Prevotella , P. histicola,  can prevent or halt mouse versions of RA and 


    MS.   Would it be worthwhile for a patient to try and incorporate this bacteria in his/her diet?  Is that possible?


     


    As always, your sharing of your knowledge is most appreciated.




     


    1. Low starch diet and low FODMAP diet would help. Remember this type of diet would reduce symptoms but might not necessarily reduce overgrowth since the bacteria can hibernate for awhile without food and can hide behind biofilm when fasting, making it harder to eliminate. Of course an antimicrobial protocol followed by increasing Bifido might be a better way of going depending on how bad the overgrowth is. Fixing circadian rhythm. limiting not native EMF, and increasing Omega 3 intake would reduce inflammation.


     


    2. Prevotella is a co-infection not the route cause. Both are gram negative bacteria that leak LPS from a leaky gut into the bloodstream. Inflammation from these LPS's cause issues in the joint in spine. The bacteria themselves like to colonize certain areas of the body as well once they get outside the gut.


     


    Bacteroides and prevotella compete with one another. Prevotella likes carbohydrates and fiber as well. Bacteroides like fat and protein and GOS.


     


    3. Not to my knowledge.


    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

    http://www.fixyourgut.com

     

  • Thanks so much, John.  Very interesting and very helpful.


  • edited August 2016
    Vince Giuliano ( PhD physics, Harvard, and one of the developers of the computer ) was able to put his RA into remission about 25 years ago by utilizing four supplements ( ashwagandha, curcumin, boswellia, ginger ). When the RA returned he modified them by making them more bio-available and this was effective enough to drive the RA back into submission . He is interviewed in ayoutube video and you can scroll to minute 18 and he will go into more detail.

    He has made major changes in the foods he eats ( low carb as the carbs drive up inflammation ) and the supplements may not be effective if you do not make necessary food changes. The best structure for how to change the foods comes from the Seignalet Protocol, which was tested on 2500 volunteers for 20 years in France. Of 297 with RA 127 had complete remission and 82% measurable improvement ( just by food changes and lifestyle changes- no grains, no dairy, no soy ).

    Most people find making giant food changes a challenge, but these days we can find paleo substitutes for almost any food we can think of at youtube or at many paleo web sites. Here is a paleo tortilla that a mom developed for her picky children.

    For a delicious healthy cookie that is wheat free and sugar free here is a page from Dr. Mercola. I use stevia as a sweetener and also make major modifications so at to make it into a cake ( lemon zest, flax seeds and chia seeds ground fresh, walnuts and pecans ground, vanilla extract, cinnamon, baking powder, etc: http://recipes.mercola.com/real-food-cookies-recipe.aspx

    UCII is well documented in clinical trial on horses and dogs and people to help substantially with RA. 

    Chinese peony will also help to modulate the immune system, and has the added benefit of being protective of the liver. If you are using MTX it may make it possible to reduce the dosage. 

    A recent study in a science journal showed that ashwagandha is as effective as MTX in treating RA. 


    Dr. Gundry has collected data on 800 patients who tried a lectin avoidance diet for 6 months and of the 800 none did not recover! Scroll to minute 1:17 of a youtube video and you can hear him describe the meat of what he has learned.

    Here are a few links to sites that go into more detail on the lectin avoidance diet:



    "The diet consisted of avoidance of grains, sprouted grains, pseudo-grains, beans and legumes, soy, peanuts, cashews, nightshades, melons and squashes, and non-Southern European cow milk products (Casein A1), and grain and/or bean fed animals."

    Some scientists think that RA is caused by a proteus mirabilis bacteria infection and have written several papers in peer reviewed journals.  Two countries have devoted enormous resources to studying medicinal plants in their countries that have a good potential to wipe out this bacteria of the urinary tract.  I have posted about this in my journal at Inspire and also included practical steps I am taking to make use of this valuable body of knowledge:  https://www.inspire.com/nobeta1/journal/rheumatoid-arthritis-is-caused-by-a-proteus-urinary-tract-infection/

  • Thanks for this valuable information.  My daughter has RA.  I will pass all of this on to her.


  • Hello, there's this novel, clinically validated blood flow and nerve stimulant therapy that might serve beneficial for those suffering from arthritis, joint pains, etc. It's called d'oxyva. this might help you and/or your loved ones. cheers!

Sign In or Register to comment.