Linseed Oil Vs Krill Oil!?!

Hi,


 


I am currently "consulting" my uncle in regards to supplementation.


 


When proposing Krill OIl as an Omega 3 fatty acid source he said he saw linseed oil in a shop nearby and now asked if instead of krill oil he can simply down a tbsp of linseed oil every morning..


 


Now I recall that there were "stuff" going on with common linseed oil and that Dave would not recommend it but I can't recall the details.


 


Are there any valid arguments I can present my uncle?


Comments

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭

    It oxidizes rapidly. Linseed oil is for varnishing wood, not eating.


     


    (It is also combustible, if you wad up a rag soaked in linseed oil and throw it into a garbage can it can ignite spontaneously and cause a fire.)


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016


    Linseed oil - see also flax seed oil




    Yup. Boil it 'n stain some spalted maple! Eat some flax muffins if you want flax seed oil inside you  :mrgreen:


     


     


    On a more serious note some points to consider:


     


    Conversion of ALA to DHA with plant sources of Omega 3s is rather poor compared to getting your DHA directly from marine animals.


    Flax seed oil oxidizes easily compared to krill oil.


    Krill oil capsules have incredibly low amount of Omega 3s for their price point.


    Krill oil has astaxanthin, but the actual levels in each capsule may be in dispute.


    Fish oil has sustainability concerns and some less expensive ones use farm raised fish, but has a much higher level of Omega 3s for the price point.


    Consider the dose he is looking to take and the reason for taking it.


     


    I'd recommend taking a pharmaceutical grade Omega 3 over krill oil or fish oil so you are not taking 3-6 capsules of fish oil to the amount of Omega 3 that you want, but it really depends on why he is taking it and what his goals are.


     


     


    Now that I have a minute to sit and drop links:


    Chris Kresser - Why fish stomps flax as a source of omega-3


    OmegaVia - Flaxseed Oil vs Fish Oil


    Fish Oil Dosage


    What Is "Pharmaceutical Grade" Fish Oil?


    OmegaVia - Krill Oil Misinformation


  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016

    sparefilms...why does 'Flax seed oil oxidize easily compared to krill oil'


    fake it till you make it

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016


    sparefilms...why does 'Flax seed oil oxidize easily compared to krill oil'




    It is susceptible to damage by heat and light, necessitating refrigeration to prevent oxidation and rancidification. There is some merit to flax seed oil that has antioxidants added in as a preservative, and mixed results with cold-pressed flax seed oil being shelf stable at room temperature until being opened. I've found that hemp seed oil also has the same drawbacks, especially the sensitivity to temperature. This makes it impractical, particularly if you have to travel or take it to work.


     


    The select few brands of krill oil I would purchase are cold processed with CO2, have the additional benefit of astaxanthin content as an antioxidant, are processed immediately upon being harvested to avoid degradation, and are opaque softgels that are stable at room temperature.


     


    I would still recommend pharmaceutical grade fish oil over krill because of the cost efficiency per dose and the ease of taking a proper dose. I view krill oil as an addition to an Omega 3 supplement regimen. I view something like hemp seed oil as an addition as well, but in something like a salad dressing as opposed to in a supplement role. (Unless you are allergic to fish products of course)


  • What is "pharmaceutical grade fish oil?"


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016


    What is "pharmaceutical grade fish oil?"




    What Is "Pharmaceutical Grade" Fish Oil?


     


    tl;dr


    "Pharmaceutical Grade" fish oil is a scale indicating the consumer equivalent of the prescription fish oil Lovaza. Basically concentrated Omega 3s without the fish fat that is the primary component of most fish oil supplements. Thus, less pills to take.


     


    Omega3-Per-Pill1.jpg


  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Fair enough. So processing, storage, delivery method & antioxidant content.


    All things being equal, it would probably come down to the antioxidant content...

    because on paper, krill oil would be more 'unsaturated' than flax oil...which would make it more prone to oxidation than flax oil (in the absence of antioxidants).

    fake it till you make it

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited January 2016


    All things being equal, it would probably come down to the antioxidant content...




     


    I believe I recall Dave saying that the astaxanthin in krill oil keeps it from oxidizing. 


     


    Also, the ALA in flaxseed/linseed oil is poorly converted to EPA/DHA as found in fish and krill oils:



     


     


    α-Linolenic acid can only be obtained by humans through their diets because the absence of the required 12- and 15-desaturase enzymes makes de novo synthesis from stearic acid impossible. Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA; 20:5, n−3) anddocosahexaenoic acid (DHA; 22:6, n−3) are readily available from fish and algae oil and play a vital role in many metabolic processes. These can also be synthesized by humans from dietary α-linolenic acid, but with an efficiency of only a few percent.[14] 

     


    - Wikipedia, but the footnote source is legit. (Similar story for plant-based vitamin A conversion to usable retinol.) 


     


    Finally, note the omega 6 and 9 content of flaxseed/linseed oils. The omega 3 content is higher BUT it's as ALA, so once you do the conversion to EPA/DHA, you end up with more O6,9. I think hemp oil has this problem too. 


     


     


    Between refrigeration, hassle, poor conversion, and crappy taste, I don't really see the point of flaxseed oil unless you are a very strict vegetarian on a budget, or perhaps if you see noticeable benefits you can track. For a strict veggie without a budget, algae would be preferred I think. 


  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016

    I did a bit of reading on ALA a while back and found some interesting stuff. I feel like consuming a combo of chia and hemp may be a good way to get some ALA without the downsides of flax, and that this combo may convert the ALA more efficiently into EPA. It was a thread about flax seeds, I think...


     


    Edit: Found it.


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  • WalterWalter ✭✭✭

    It's pretty clear that humans need DHA in their diet. Preferably from fresh fish/shellfish, and the further down the processing chain the worse it gets.


  • genao87genao87 ✭✭
    edited January 2016


    What Is "Pharmaceutical Grade" Fish Oil?


     


    tl;dr


    "Pharmaceutical Grade" fish oil is a scale indicating the consumer equivalent of the prescription fish oil Lovaza. Basically concentrated Omega 3s without the fish fat that is the primary component of most fish oil supplements. Thus, less pills to take.


     


    Omega3-Per-Pill1.jpg




     


     


    damn didnt know this.    on average Krill Oil has less Omega 3s,  way less I hear than Fish Oil.    I knew about Lovaza but I never thought it was used as a measuring stick for off market Fish Oil supplements.


     


    How does Cod Liver Oil play into this?   Cod Liver Oil I take is from Vitamin Shoppe.   I know it has more Omega 3 content than Krill Oil on average but less than Fish Oil...well that is what I keep hearing.   I take Cod Liver Oil for the benefit of it having Vitamin A (active form) along with the Omega 3s


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    damn didnt know this.    on average Krill Oil has less Omega 3s,  way less I hear than Fish Oil.    I knew about Lovaza but I never thought it was used as a measuring stick for off market Fish Oil supplements.


     


    How does Cod Liver Oil play into this?   Cod Liver Oil I take is from Vitamin Shoppe.   I know it has more Omega 3 content than Krill Oil on average but less than Fish Oil...well that is what I keep hearing.   I take Cod Liver Oil for the benefit of it having Vitamin A. 




    I have no idea on the Cold Liver Oil, someone else will have to chime in. 

  • If you wanted to get the most DHA/EPA from an animal with minimal processing, you should take it from the retina.  The retina also has tons of vitamin A.


     


    Unless the supplement has been standardized, the amount of n-3 fatty acids is highly variable.  It will change given environmental conditions like food supply and the time of the year.


     


    If my health insurance were better, I would try and get a prescription for Lovaza to save money on supplements.  Unfortunately, I now have an $8,000 (USD) deductible.  Just five years ago, I would have been able to get a generic for $4 and my premiums were much lower.  Did anyone actually benefit from the Affordable Health Care for Americans Act?


  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭


    If you wanted to get the most DHA/EPA from an animal with minimal processing, you should take it from the retina.  The retina also has tons of vitamin A.


     


    Unless the supplement has been standardized, the amount of n-3 fatty acids is highly variable.  It will change given environmental conditions like food supply and the time of the year.


     


    If my health insurance were better, I would try and get a prescription for Lovaza to save money on supplements.  Unfortunately, I now have an $8,000 (USD) deductible.  Just five years ago, I would have been able to get a generic for $4 and my premiums were much lower.  Did anyone actually benefit from the Affordable Health Care for Americans Act?




     


    Yeah, Lovaza is shit fish oil because it is ethyl ester.

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  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    Yeah, Lovaza is shit fish oil because it is ethyl ester.




    This is why I use Omega Via, same amount of EPA/DHA (and you can get EPA only or DHA only versions), cheaper than on prescription (even with insurance), and its in triglyceride form.


     


     




    If my health insurance were better, I would try and get a prescription for Lovaza to save money on supplements.  Unfortunately, I now have an $8,000 (USD) deductible.  Just five years ago, I would have been able to get a generic for $4 and my premiums were much lower.  Did anyone actually benefit from the Affordable Health Care for Americans Act?




    I know that people with preexisting conditions who would normally be denied insurance can now get coverage at a rate that won't make them homeless. Especially transplant patients. All of my generic prescriptions are actually still $4 and are not impacted by my deductible. Unfortunately Lovaza does not fall under generic prescriptions, so it would still carry the premium price of $45 with my insurance.

  • So, maybe I can hijack my own thread to discuss which actual supplement to buy.


     


    I am confused. I thought Krill Oil > Fish Oil.


     


    Now, looking at my Krill Oil supplement it merely has ~45mg of DHA and a little bit more EPA per capsule.


    "Recommended" are ~340mg DHA per day, right?


     


    I find it hard to find Krill Oil on Amazon (Europe) with high EPA/DHA.


     


    Now, this looks good:


     


    http://www.amazon.de/Life-Extension-Omega-3-Sesam-Lignane-Extract/dp/B006P4B43W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452533550&sr=8-1&keywords=life+extension+super+omega+3


     


    but is fishoil, right?


     


    So... fishoil or krill oil? How much and which brand!!??


     


    Thx! (I'm so confused)


  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016


    Thx! (I'm so confused)




     


    If you think you are confused now...this may confuse you further;  


     



    Source


    ...Dr. Kruse has been saying, DHA must be present at the “sn-2” position (that’s basically the middle of a triacylglycerol or phospholipid).  This is how DHA is present in seafood but not always in fish oil supps (eg, Litchfield 1968 and Ando et al., 1996).  It’s not all-or-nothing, but it’s safe to say you’re gonna get more sn-2-DHA in seafood.


    Why “sn-2?”


    1) DHA is more stable in this position (eg, Wijesundera et al., 2008).


    2) It’s more bioavailable here (eg, Christensen et al., 1995).


    3) sn-2-DHA is more effectively incorporated into brain lipids (eg, Thies et al., 1994 and Lagarde et al., 2001).  Again, it’s not all-or-nothing, but more is likely gonna get in your brain if you eat seafood.



     


     i also found this quote somewhere;


    "DHA in the sn-2 position in phosphoglycerides is the predominant form in mother’s milk. It is the form that is required for optimal brain development in nursing infants"


    fake it till you make it

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    If you think you are confused now...this may confuse you further;  


     


     


    & i also found this quote somewhere;


    "DHA in the sn-2 position in phosphoglycerides is the predominant form in mother’s milk. It is the form that is required for optimal brain development in nursing infants"




    Don't forget that EPA can be converted relatively easily by the body to DHA, while DHA cannot be readily converted to EPA. EPA and DHA will also compete for absorption, necessitating careful consideration if you need a specific result.


     


    I can't reiterate enough that you have to know why you want to take it and what you are trying to accomplish when selecting your supplements. Figure out what your end goal is for taking them and build towards that, otherwise you can waste plenty of money supplementing with an ineffective method or inefficient product.


  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016


    I can't reiterate enough that you have to know why you want to take it and what you are trying to accomplish when selecting your supplements. Figure out what your end goal is for taking them and build towards that, otherwise you can waste plenty of money supplementing with an ineffective method or inefficient product.




     


    good point.


     


    currently i do not supplement with any epa, dha, fish oil & the like, 


    but if i did go for one of these, my primary 'goal/reason' for it right now would be to support eye health...


    so i would probably be thinking of something high in DHA. Apparently DHA makes up the majority of the pufas in the retina (wiki puts it at ~60% of the pufas in the retina?).  


     


    edit: but i have not looked in to this at all. so i have no idea know if supplemental dha would even 'make its way' to the retina. 

    & if it did, would some forms/types of dha be better than others. 


    fake it till you make it

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    currently i do not supplement with any epa, dha, fish oil & the like, 


    but if i did go for one of these, my primary 'goal/reason' for it at the moment would be to support eye health...


    so i would probably be thinking of something high in DHA. Apparently DHA makes up the majority of the pufas in the retina (wiki puts it at ~60% of the pufas in the retina?).  




    Eye health is an area of major interest for me. I suffer from extremely dry eyes to the point that I cannot wear contacts for more than 3-4 hours (and it is aggrivated by the place I live and the place I work) so I've been planning on using EPA-only fish oil for the anti-inflammatory properties. The other up side is that if I need DHA my body will happily convert it on the fly for me. The EPA/DHA discussion gets into really speculative territory really quickly, and the clinical research I've been interested in has been focused on EPA dominant formulas. This is where we need some careful n-1 going on that is well documented.

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