Temporary Butter Replacement

Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭

So I have slowly started to lose my taste for butter, and I think it has something to do with this chemical that I'm very sensitive to that is found in generous amounts in all dairy. It's called acetaldehyde and it's really present in small amounts in almost all food, but I've been overexposed to it in my lifetime from mold exposure and yeast overgrowth, and some chemical exposures from building materials. Also, I have that genetic deficiency where I can't really detox it. Butter I guess is sadly not an exception to the dairy rule of having a lot of acetaldehyde, because I can smell acetaldehyde when I crack open a new thing of butter.


I eat a lot of butter, because I have a lot of food sensitivities/allergies, and it is really my main source of calories. I can get through just about 5 or 6 oz. in a day. I really like it, obviously, but like I said, it just has sort of started to taste like chemicals to me. I know that's weird, but trust me, it's happening.


So to reestablish my "taste" for it, which comes and goes, I'd like to eat something in its stead for awhile. I suppose I could try ghee, but since it's derived from butter, it really might be no different on the aldehyde front. Tallow is what I use for a lot of cooking, but when I use it as a "spread," it just kind of falls flat  for me and even kind of gives me indigestion. Coconut oil is out because it gives me the runs and I think I'm slightly allergic to coconuts.


But don't worry, I do like olive oil, and I've been having as much of that as I can stomach. I'm also eating as many avocados as I can. Still, there's nothing like butter on a sweet potato. I don't know what I expect to find out from everyone here, but there could be some miracle animal fat spread that I don't know about. Oh yeah, and lard is out, because I'm sensitive to unmarinated pork. I eat bacon, but I have to marinate it in lemon for 24 hours to avoid arthritic pain when I consume it.


 


Comments

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016


    So I have slowly started to lose my taste for butter, and I think it has something to do with this chemical that I'm very sensitive to that is found in generous amounts in all dairy. It's called acetaldehyde and it's really present in small amounts in almost all food, but I've been overexposed to it in my lifetime from mold exposure and yeast overgrowth, and some chemical exposures from building materials. Also, I have that genetic deficiency where I can't really detox it. Butter I guess is sadly not an exception to the dairy rule of having a lot of acetaldehyde, because I can smell acetaldehyde when I crack open a new thing of butter.


    I eat a lot of butter, because I have a lot of food sensitivities/allergies, and it is really my main source of calories. I can get through just about 5 or 6 oz. in a day. I really like it, obviously, but like I said, it just has sort of started to taste like chemicals to me. I know that's weird, but trust me, it's happening.


    So to reestablish my "taste" for it, which comes and goes, I'd like to eat something in its stead for awhile. I suppose I could try ghee, but since it's derived from butter, it really might be no different on the aldehyde front. Tallow is what I use for a lot of cooking, but when I use it as a "spread," it just kind of falls flat  for me and even kind of gives me indigestion. Coconut oil is out because it gives me the runs and I think I'm slightly allergic to coconuts.


    But don't worry, I do like olive oil, and I've been having as much of that as I can stomach. I'm also eating as many avocados as I can. Still, there's nothing like butter on a sweet potato. I don't know what I expect to find out from everyone here, but there could be some miracle animal fat spread that I don't know about. Oh yeah, and lard is out, because I'm sensitive to unmarinated pork. I eat bacon, but I have to marinate it in lemon for 24 hours to avoid arthritic pain when I consume it.


     




     


    What about butter dusted in molybdenum?


     


    In addition any measurement or proof you can send my way about the measured amounts of acetaldehyde? I cannot find any.


     


    Cultured dairy would have it in varied amounts: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379907/, so if you use cultured butter than yeah it would have more.


     


    Standard butter would have less and milk as well. Fermentation by lactic acid bacteria is what produces acetaldehyde and later acetate.


     


    Do not give me smell as a scientific answer because diacetyl and acetaldehyde smell similar therefore you are probably smelling diacetyl from a pack of fresh butter. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    What about butter dusted in molybdenum?


     


    In addition any measurement or proof you can send my way about the measured amounts of acetaldehyde? I cannot find any.


     


    Cultured dairy would have it in varied amounts: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379907/, so if you use cultured butter than yeah it would have more.


     


    Standard butter would have less and milk as well. Fermentation by lactic acid bacteria is what produces acetaldehyde and later acetate.


     


    Do not give me smell as a scientific answer because diacetyl and acetaldehyde smell similar therefore you are probably smelling diacetyl from a pack of fresh butter. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO




     


    Hmmm, I wonder if it's the diacetyl that smells chemical-like. This is the study I've been going on for acetaldehyde content: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3124883/


     


    It would be nice to know that molybdenum neutralizes acetaldehyde on contact, but sadly, while it has helped a great deal taking 1 mg/day of molybdenum for the past couple years, it has never been enough to neutralize it and sufficiently diminish my aldehyde sensitivity. That's why I'm experimenting with B1, B3, and cysteine, as well as some "cocktails" that use these and other known substances that help reduce acetaldehyde. We'll talk more about this soon.


    Though this piece doesn't discuss butter (perhaps it is hard to measure for some reason, I don't know), I gathered from the discussion of other dairy products, especially yogurt, that there were good amounts in it. 



    There must've been somewhere else that corroborated about the amounts of acetaldehyde in dairy, but from what you're saying about lactic acid fermentation, this confirms for me it is very likely that what I'm smelling is the acetaldehyde. I say this, because when I buy raw butter, which would most likely allow more fermenation (even if it's not cultured—there is still bacteria in all dairy), I find that the smell is much much stronger and intolerable for me. I have been intentionally looking for butter from pasteurized milk, because from that association with raw butter, I figured the amount probably had to do with the microbes present from the milk it was derived from. Sounds like I was right.



    I have also noticed that the taste/smell is stronger the paler (not yellower) the butter gets. This would not bode in favor of the smell being from diacetyl, upon doing a little research, because that's what makes the butter yellow(?)


     


    But even if it was the diacetyl, why would that be so distasteful to me all of a sudden? To my knowledge, there's no genetic predisposition to diacetyl sensitivity... Maybe just from having so much butter over the last few years, it finally caught up to me. But it makes a lot more sense that it's acetaldehyde, because it smells/tastes just like other products that are known to have it like colognes/detergents/etc.

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    What about butter dusted in molybdenum?


     


    In addition any measurement or proof you can send my way about the measured amounts of acetaldehyde? I cannot find any.


     


    Cultured dairy would have it in varied amounts: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379907/, so if you use cultured butter than yeah it would have more.


     


    Standard butter would have less and milk as well. Fermentation by lactic acid bacteria is what produces acetaldehyde and later acetate.


     


    Do not give me smell as a scientific answer because diacetyl and acetaldehyde smell similar therefore you are probably smelling diacetyl from a pack of fresh butter. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO




     


    Okay, so I tried some Anchor butter, which is supposed to be 100% grass-fed, and I had the same digestive distress as I got from Kerrygold before I switched, but NO acetaldehyde. I even got acid reflux last night, which severely sucked. I did not feel too great. I was thinking, John, could this be the dioxin problem with grass-fed animals you have always talked about? Would this problem be worse in Irish and Kiwi cows?

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭


    Okay, so I tried some Anchor butter, which is supposed to be 100% grass-fed, and I had the same digestive distress as I got from Kerrygold before I switched, but NO acetaldehyde. I even got acid reflux last night, which severely sucked. I did not feel too great. I was thinking, John, could this be the dioxin problem with grass-fed animals you have always talked about? Would this problem be worse in Irish and Kiwi cows?




     


    Lactose?

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    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

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  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    Lactose?




     


    I never thought about that... Kerry and Anchor do seem a bit sweeter. Is there more lactose in these kinds of brands?

  • Hi. I too have a problem with butter, regardless of whether it's grass fed or not, and I have such a sensitivity to acetaldehydes that I can't even have a spoonful of yoghurt or a probiotic pill without coming out in the red facial flush--and yes, it sucks to get that telltale acetaldehyde flush, particularly as it kind of makes me look like I'm an alcoholic, even though I don't drink alcohol at all. I hate the brain fog and hangover feeling that comes with it too.

    I don't know if I can suggest an alternative to butter, but I will try. If you're looking for a spread for bread, perhaps you could try almond butter or something (like peanut butter, but with almonds). I also find plain Philly cheese to be surprisingly tolerable. Just skipping the spreads also works too, so long as you have a strong flavour on the bread such as tomato. You might also try roasted red capsicums with the skins removed after cooking (or bell peppers, as some call them), which can be used in slices or strips laid across the bread, or pureed into a spread. For cooking, I use dripping (from beef), but if you want an alternative to that which might also work as a spread or something to fry bread in till it's crispy at least, I would perhaps try goose fat or duck fat, since you can buy those in at least some stores (sorry in advance about the high price, but they say the flavour is amazing, especially if you're cooking potatoes in it), or maybe even try the fat left in the pan after you've roasted a chicken. Poultry usually has high cysteine levels, I believe, which really helps with increasing acetaldehyde clearance from the body.

    As to why the butter is upsetting your body, I suggest the culprit might be vanillin, perhaps, which is a type of aldehyde found in butter. It's the same ingredient one finds in vanilla essence and maple syrup that ruins those foods for me and makes me ill when I eat them. If you have troubles with one form of aldehyde, you'll often have troubles with other types as well; that's fairly common. I know acetaldehydes, formaldehydes and vanillin are all a big problem for me.

    They say when alcohol is being brewed, and it turns bad with too much acetaldehyde developing in it, it gets a buttery smell. Therefore it is natural and logical to think that butter is full of acetaldehyde, and I have often assumed over the years that it is, but I just can't find research that bears this out. Vanillin IS definitely in butter, though, and some other chemicals as well, such as diacetyl and maltol, plus heating/cooking the butter increases the levels of those chemicals and also brings up the level of furaneol substantially.

    Butter is a major cause of reflux for a lot of people, and can be especially nasty for people with LPR.

    You're lucky you can eat olive oil. That stuff sends me to digestive hell faster than almost anything else. You should be aware, though, that vegetable oils, including olive oils, when heated during cooking even to quite low temperatures actually produce a shocking amount of acetaldehyde (as well as other substances, including formaldehyde). Olive oil also oxidises quickly and can begin to go rancid as soon as a week or so after the bottle is open. Sorry to be the bearer of that bad news.

    Luckily, saturated fats such as dripping and lard don't really change when heated or produce all that acetaldehyde. Plus they're not full of inflammatory omega 6s either.

    If you want to find dairy that's tolerable, you could try some of the very mild mozzarella, and test a few brands till you find one that works for you, hopefully. The younger and paler the cheese, the lower the acetaldehyde levels, I find. I can tolerate mozzarella quite well, but only certain brands. It's hard to tell in advance which ones will be okay. It's just hit and miss, basically, and it can even change seasonally or with the age and storage of the product.

    Personally, I find cutting out the carbs does wonders, as does following a FODMAPS diet. That can really lower the acetaldehyde levels in the body, for me at least, or at least after the initial diet changeover phase.

    I hope this helps.

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭

    @Elle said:
    Hi. I too have a problem with butter, regardless of whether it's grass fed or not, and I have such a sensitivity to acetaldehydes that I can't even have a spoonful of yoghurt or a probiotic pill without coming out in the red facial flush--and yes, it sucks to get that telltale acetaldehyde flush, particularly as it kind of makes me look like I'm an alcoholic, even though I don't drink alcohol at all. I hate the brain fog and hangover feeling that comes with it too.

    I don't know if I can suggest an alternative to butter, but I will try. If you're looking for a spread for bread, perhaps you could try almond butter or something (like peanut butter, but with almonds). I also find plain Philly cheese to be surprisingly tolerable. Just skipping the spreads also works too, so long as you have a strong flavour on the bread such as tomato. You might also try roasted red capsicums with the skins removed after cooking (or bell peppers, as some call them), which can be used in slices or strips laid across the bread, or pureed into a spread. For cooking, I use dripping (from beef), but if you want an alternative to that which might also work as a spread or something to fry bread in till it's crispy at least, I would perhaps try goose fat or duck fat, since you can buy those in at least some stores (sorry in advance about the high price, but they say the flavour is amazing, especially if you're cooking potatoes in it), or maybe even try the fat left in the pan after you've roasted a chicken. Poultry usually has high cysteine levels, I believe, which really helps with increasing acetaldehyde clearance from the body.

    As to why the butter is upsetting your body, I suggest the culprit might be vanillin, perhaps, which is a type of aldehyde found in butter. It's the same ingredient one finds in vanilla essence and maple syrup that ruins those foods for me and makes me ill when I eat them. If you have troubles with one form of aldehyde, you'll often have troubles with other types as well; that's fairly common. I know acetaldehydes, formaldehydes and vanillin are all a big problem for me.

    They say when alcohol is being brewed, and it turns bad with too much acetaldehyde developing in it, it gets a buttery smell. Therefore it is natural and logical to think that butter is full of acetaldehyde, and I have often assumed over the years that it is, but I just can't find research that bears this out. Vanillin IS definitely in butter, though, and some other chemicals as well, such as diacetyl and maltol, plus heating/cooking the butter increases the levels of those chemicals and also brings up the level of furaneol substantially.

    Butter is a major cause of reflux for a lot of people, and can be especially nasty for people with LPR.

    You're lucky you can eat olive oil. That stuff sends me to digestive hell faster than almost anything else. You should be aware, though, that vegetable oils, including olive oils, when heated during cooking even to quite low temperatures actually produce a shocking amount of acetaldehyde (as well as other substances, including formaldehyde). Olive oil also oxidises quickly and can begin to go rancid as soon as a week or so after the bottle is open. Sorry to be the bearer of that bad news.

    Luckily, saturated fats such as dripping and lard don't really change when heated or produce all that acetaldehyde. Plus they're not full of inflammatory omega 6s either.

    If you want to find dairy that's tolerable, you could try some of the very mild mozzarella, and test a few brands till you find one that works for you, hopefully. The younger and paler the cheese, the lower the acetaldehyde levels, I find. I can tolerate mozzarella quite well, but only certain brands. It's hard to tell in advance which ones will be okay. It's just hit and miss, basically, and it can even change seasonally or with the age and storage of the product.

    Personally, I find cutting out the carbs does wonders, as does following a FODMAPS diet. That can really lower the acetaldehyde levels in the body, for me at least, or at least after the initial diet changeover phase.

    I hope this helps.

    Wow, you're awesome, Elle! Glad to hear of someone else that has this ridiculous problem. Are you Asian, or do you just get Asian flush? You just got me excited about trying mozzarella. I can't wait. I do think the protein of the cow (casein) is also a problem though, unfortunately, but good to know the best options as far as aldehydes go. You seem very knowledgable.

    I wanted to let you know I found an amazing butter that never bothers me, and you should try it. It's also European, so no problems with that inflammatory protein. It's called Fond O' Foods German Allgau Butter. It's 100% grass-fed and hard to find online, BUT I searched far and wide and found somewhere I can get it for $6/bar, which is about what I was paying for the local grass-fed butter I was getting before. So here it is!

    http://grassfedtraditions.com/grass-fed-butter.html

  • I wanted to let you know I found an amazing butter that never bothers me, and you should try it. It's also European, so no problems with that inflammatory protein. It's called Fond O' Foods German Allgau Butter. It's 100% grass-fed and hard to find online, BUT I searched far and wide and found somewhere I can get it for $6/bar, which is about what I was paying for the local grass-fed butter I was getting before. So here it is!

    http://grassfedtraditions.com/grass-fed-butter.html

    German butter named : ' German Butter ' I can't help but feel a sense of distrust...

  • @Elle said:
    Hi. I too have a problem with butter, regardless of whether it's grass fed or not, and I have such a sensitivity to acetaldehydes that I can't even have a spoonful of yoghurt or a probiotic pill without coming out in the red facial flush--and yes, it sucks to get that telltale acetaldehyde flush, particularly as it kind of makes me look like I'm an alcoholic, even though I don't drink alcohol at all. I hate the brain fog and hangover feeling that comes with it too.

    I don't know if I can suggest an alternative to butter, but I will try. If you're looking for a spread for bread, perhaps you could try almond butter or something (like peanut butter, but with almonds). I also find plain Philly cheese to be surprisingly tolerable. Just skipping the spreads also works too, so long as you have a strong flavour on the bread such as tomato. You might also try roasted red capsicums with the skins removed after cooking (or bell peppers, as some call them), which can be used in slices or strips laid across the bread, or pureed into a spread. For cooking, I use dripping (from beef), but if you want an alternative to that which might also work as a spread or something to fry bread in till it's crispy at least, I would perhaps try goose fat or duck fat, since you can buy those in at least some stores (sorry in advance about the high price, but they say the flavour is amazing, especially if you're cooking potatoes in it), or maybe even try the fat left in the pan after you've roasted a chicken. Poultry usually has high cysteine levels, I believe, which really helps with increasing acetaldehyde clearance from the body.

    As to why the butter is upsetting your body, I suggest the culprit might be vanillin, perhaps, which is a type of aldehyde found in butter. It's the same ingredient one finds in vanilla essence and maple syrup that ruins those foods for me and makes me ill when I eat them. If you have troubles with one form of aldehyde, you'll often have troubles with other types as well; that's fairly common. I know acetaldehydes, formaldehydes and vanillin are all a big problem for me.

    They say when alcohol is being brewed, and it turns bad with too much acetaldehyde developing in it, it gets a buttery smell. Therefore it is natural and logical to think that butter is full of acetaldehyde, and I have often assumed over the years that it is, but I just can't find research that bears this out. Vanillin IS definitely in butter, though, and some other chemicals as well, such as diacetyl and maltol, plus heating/cooking the butter increases the levels of those chemicals and also brings up the level of furaneol substantially.

    Butter is a major cause of reflux for a lot of people, and can be especially nasty for people with LPR.

    You're lucky you can eat olive oil. That stuff sends me to digestive hell faster than almost anything else. You should be aware, though, that vegetable oils, including olive oils, when heated during cooking even to quite low temperatures actually produce a shocking amount of acetaldehyde (as well as other substances, including formaldehyde). Olive oil also oxidises quickly and can begin to go rancid as soon as a week or so after the bottle is open. Sorry to be the bearer of that bad news.

    Luckily, saturated fats such as dripping and lard don't really change when heated or produce all that acetaldehyde. Plus they're not full of inflammatory omega 6s either.

    If you want to find dairy that's tolerable, you could try some of the very mild mozzarella, and test a few brands till you find one that works for you, hopefully. The younger and paler the cheese, the lower the acetaldehyde levels, I find. I can tolerate mozzarella quite well, but only certain brands. It's hard to tell in advance which ones will be okay. It's just hit and miss, basically, and it can even change seasonally or with the age and storage of the product.

    Personally, I find cutting out the carbs does wonders, as does following a FODMAPS diet. That can really lower the acetaldehyde levels in the body, for me at least, or at least after the initial diet changeover phase.

    I hope this helps.

    You said butter is a major cause for some people with reflux. Its actually anything that contains fat because it relaxes the lower esophageal sphincter

  • Is is present in all types of dairy?
    Otherwise you could maybe try goat butter

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