100% Cotton

Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭

I am chemically sensitive, but believe it or not, I react to organic cotton. Some say it's the cottonseed oil, which easily turns rancid when the clothes aren't processed enough. After a couple of washes (just 2), my daughter's clothing smells just fine to me, but I'm still concerned about residual glyphosate, dyes, and chemicals. I use organic Whole Foods brand detergent and a lot of hydrogen peroxide. My question is, how many times would it realistically take to remove all of the chemicals used in processing the cotton? Is that even a reasonable expectation?


Comments

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016

    No, it is not a reasonable expectation. The clothes will be releasing chemicals throughout its lifetime in varying amounts.


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  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    No, it is not a reasonable expectation. The clothes will be releasing chemicals throughout its lifetime in varying amounts.




    What's the best solution then?

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭

    Wash the clothes a few times and get on with your life. We aren't the elite you cannot afford toxin free clothing if it even existed.


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  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016

    Understand the dose efficacy curve, it will help cut down your levels of anxiety relating to the rather insignificant amount of chemical offgassing from clothing.


     


    If the clothing is smelling wrong to you after several wash sessions then your washing machine is probably contaminated with mildew or some sort of chemical. Excess colorfast chemicals typically wash out within the first wash or two, because during manufacture the textile will have reached full chemical saturation and the chemicals will have created a permanent bond between the dye and the fabric. Thus the excess colorfast chemicals have nothing to bond to and simply wash away. You're never going to get rid of all the chemicals used in processing textiles, because they are bonded to the fabric for a reason, to keep the pretty colors there. A persistent smell after multiple washings indicates an external contaminant, not a manufacturing chemical.


     


    When washing your clothes, put them on extra rinse cycles and hang them outside in direct sunlight to dry. This will assist in any offgassing that needs to happen, though this technique is commonly used with wool items due to the unique properties of lanolin.


     


    Your best bet will be to purchase clothing that is made in a country with higher textile standards, or to purchase clothing that is made from a fabric that is not processed with high levels of industrial chemicals. These options will cause your clothing to be EXPONENTIALLY more expensive.


     


    If all else fails contact a chemical sensitivity specialist and get a professional medical recommendation. I guarantee that the exhaust from driving on a city street, not to mention the chemicals used in the manufacturing of vehicle interiors, is worse for you than any chemicals left on cotton clothing that has already been washed several times.


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    you cannot afford toxin free clothing if it even existed.




    I think this might depend on how strict you are with your usage of the word toxin. The colloquial use seems to conflate several very specific terms, muddying them all into simply meaning "something bad". I think the larger point that Modern Life Survivalist side-stepped is that everything is chemicals, so we need to know what chemicals to get rid of and more importantly why. The dye used to make a shirt red is a chemical used in the manufacturing process, and could possibly be toxic if you were exposed to it in say a gaseous form or if you drank it or bathed in it, but is it toxic when it is bonded to the cotton of a shirt? Is it one of the chemicals you want to get rid of? Does it cause the smell that has you worried? 


  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016


    I think this might depend on how strict you are with your usage of the word toxin. The colloquial use seems to conflate several very specific terms, muddying them all into simply meaning "something bad". I think the larger point that Modern Life Survivalist side-stepped is that everything is chemicals, so we need to know what chemicals to get rid of and more importantly why. The dye used to make a shirt red is a chemical used in the manufacturing process, and could possibly be toxic if you were exposed to it in say a gaseous form or if you drank it or bathed in it, but is it toxic when it is bonded to the cotton of a shirt? Is it one of the chemicals you want to get rid of? Does it cause the smell that has you worried? 




     


    I agree with you on everything.


    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

    http://www.fixyourgut.com

     

  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭
    Alternatively, you could shun clothing altogether.

    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

    Let's be friends on MyFitnessPal!

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    Understand the dose efficacy curve, it will help cut down your levels of anxiety relating to the rather insignificant amount of chemical offgassing from clothing.


     


    If the clothing is smelling wrong to you after several wash sessions then your washing machine is probably contaminated with mildew or some sort of chemical. Excess colorfast chemicals typically wash out within the first wash or two, because during manufacture the textile will have reached full chemical saturation and the chemicals will have created a permanent bond between the dye and the fabric. Thus the excess colorfast chemicals have nothing to bond to and simply wash away. You're never going to get rid of all the chemicals used in processing textiles, because they are bonded to the fabric for a reason, to keep the pretty colors there. A persistent smell after multiple washings indicates an external contaminant, not a manufacturing chemical.


     


    When washing your clothes, put them on extra rinse cycles and hang them outside in direct sunlight to dry. This will assist in any offgassing that needs to happen, though this technique is commonly used with wool items due to the unique properties of lanolin.


     


    Your best bet will be to purchase clothing that is made in a country with higher textile standards, or to purchase clothing that is made from a fabric that is not processed with high levels of industrial chemicals. These options will cause your clothing to be EXPONENTIALLY more expensive.


     


    If all else fails contact a chemical sensitivity specialist and get a professional medical recommendation. I guarantee that the exhaust from driving on a city street, not to mention the chemicals used in the manufacturing of vehicle interiors, is worse for you than any chemicals left on cotton clothing that has already been washed several times.




    I actually don't smell anything on them. That washes away after the 2 washes. I was just concerned about deeply embedded glyphosate (which is scentless if I'm not mistaken). Do you think the amount of glyphosate is a problem? Also, I get symptoms from my twice-washed inert, non-organic, 100% cotton clothes. I do better if they're bought used and washed a couple times instead. 

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭
    edited April 2016


    Alternatively, you could shun clothing altogether.




    I actually met a girl who had done this. Her name was Xin (pronounced Shin), so don't shun Xin. ;-p  It was very awkward talking to her, but I felt deeply sympathetic toward her. Trust me, she wasn't happy about having to do it. She walked around with a 100% cotton (not organic, but well-washed) sheet fashioned into a toga, by the way, so she wasn't completely nude. (I guess knowing that this person who was remarkably allergic was able to tolerate washed non-organic cotton should reassure me about my daughter's clothing.)


     


    At my worst point in chemical sensitivity I was close to doing this a few times. Nothing seemed to work and my clothes all started to smell. It turned out the humidity in my house was too high, and drying the clothes outside on humid days was not a good idea. They all ended up with mildew that wouldn't wash out. So I was kind of "low" on the clothing front for awhile (and really still am—I think I have like 4 or 5 outfits at the moment). Thankfully, I found a pretty good formula for processing clothing and bedding so I don't react. Let's just say I buy a lot of white t-shirts from Walmart and try my best to keep them in good shape. I also wear a lot of stretchy pants, b/c I'm having trouble holding onto khakis. I also don't like how they press on my abdomen, giving me indigestion.


     


    All that said, there is a decent amount of chemically sensitive individuals that actually have chosen the nuclear option you suggest.


  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    I think this might depend on how strict you are with your usage of the word toxin. The colloquial use seems to conflate several very specific terms, muddying them all into simply meaning "something bad". I think the larger point that Modern Life Survivalist side-stepped is that everything is chemicals, so we need to know what chemicals to get rid of and more importantly why. The dye used to make a shirt red is a chemical used in the manufacturing process, and could possibly be toxic if you were exposed to it in say a gaseous form or if you drank it or bathed in it, but is it toxic when it is bonded to the cotton of a shirt? Is it one of the chemicals you want to get rid of? Does it cause the smell that has you worried? 




     


    I believe when we in the movement, such as Vani Hari and Joseph Mercola, say "chemicals," we mean the 78,000 manufactured since the early 1900's that are still being used in commerce. Usually, yes, when we say we want "no chemicals," we generally mean the "bad" ones. 

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    I actually don't smell anything on them. That washes away after the 2 washes. I was just concerned about deeply embedded glyphosate (which is scentless if I'm not mistaken). Do you think the amount of glyphosate is a problem? Also, I get symptoms from my twice-washed inert, non-organic, 100% cotton clothes. I do better if they're bought used and washed a couple times instead. 




    What is the amount of glyphosate in processed cotton? Why not buy 100% organic cotton clothing? 


     


    If your issue is with cotton then simply use another fabric. You can purchase excellent quality and stylish clothing made from linen, hemp, wool, or bamboo. Most performance clothing is made from specific polyester derivatives which are nonreactive and hypoallergenic. There are plenty of options.


     


     


    Get a clinical allergen panel done as well as a neurological evaluation to rule out psychosomatic reactions to clothing. There are several neurological disorders that can cause one to react to wearing clothing even to the point of breaking out into a rash due to the neurological stress.


     




    I also wear a lot of stretchy pants, b/c I'm having trouble holding onto khakis. I also don't like how they press on my abdomen, giving me indigestion.




    The physical symptoms from the khakis pressing on your abdomen are another possible indicator of neurological distress, since pants that are sized correctly should not be placing that much pressure on your waistline. 

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    What is the amount of glyphosate in processed cotton? Why not buy 100% organic cotton clothing? 


     


    If your issue is with cotton then simply use another fabric. You can purchase excellent quality and stylish clothing made from linen, hemp, wool, or bamboo. Most performance clothing is made from specific polyester derivatives which are nonreactive and hypoallergenic. There are plenty of options.


     


     


    Get a clinical allergen panel done as well as a neurological evaluation to rule out psychosomatic reactions to clothing. There are several neurological disorders that can cause one to react to wearing clothing even to the point of breaking out into a rash due to the neurological stress.


     


    The physical symptoms from the khakis pressing on your abdomen are another possible indicator of neurological distress, since pants that are sized correctly should not be placing that much pressure on your waistline. 




    I believe I already covered why 100% organic cotton doesn't work for me. I'm highly allergic to the (possibly rancid) cottonseed oil, which is present in much smaller amounts in processed cotton. I determined this after using organic cotton sheets for about a week and every night waking up with watery/itchy eyes. Got rid of the sheets, and voila! All better. No more organic cotton for me.


    It is not in my head. I have always adjusted my behavior after the fact. As in, the symptom would arise, and I would try to adjust certain things, such as my clothing. Then I start to take off clothes, swap them out, and reintroduce, all the while seeing how I reacted physiologically. This is the most effective way to determine a sensitivity. In a clinical setting, I don't believe they would be able to account for all factors. 


    Since I've developed so many allergies, I have no stake in the game and I don't worry about clothes, so there is no neurological component, I am sure. I just either get an allergic reaction or I don't. Sometimes theyre worse than others. Sometimes I'm allergic to dogs/cats, and sometimes I'm not. I'm always allergic to organic cotton, though, of that I'm sure. I can't convince you, because you will only believe it when I pay to have it tested. Well, I simply cannot afford that, after all of my struggles with these sensitivities.


    Maybe I just have an abnormal waistline. Everyone in my family gets plumber buttcrack, including me, and I'm not overweight at all, nor do I have a gut. 

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016


    I can't convince you, because you will only believe it when I pay to have it tested. Well, I simply cannot afford that, after all of my struggles with these sensitivities.




    What I or anyone else on these forums believe about the source of your symptoms does not matter. We already believe that you have these symptoms. Verification of the source matters immensely because determining the source is the first step on the path towards solving the problem. If you are already sure that these symptoms are caused by cotton fabrics, buy fabrics that are not cotton


     


     


    (If you are sometimes allergic to dogs and cats then avoid fabrics made from dogs and cats.) 


  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭
    edited April 2016


    What I or anyone else on these forums believe about the source of your symptoms does not matter. We already believe that you have these symptoms. Verification of the source matters immensely because determining the source is the first step on the path towards solving the problem. If you are already sure that these symptoms are caused by cotton fabrics, buy fabrics that are not cotton


     


     


    (If you are sometimes allergic to dogs and cats then avoid fabrics made from dogs and cats.) 




     


    Do I have to spell everything out? I was illustrating some points about the nature of allergies when I mentioned dogs and cats. Why does everything always have to be so literal with you? Would you care to try and exercise some lateral thinking, try to get "the gist" of what I'm saying, or at the very least, try not to be as contrary as possible. If you wish to assist, please don't make a mockery of everything I say.


     


    Frankly, you're simplifying it to a point that makes me sound ridiculous. Why are you even on this thread if not to help?


     


    First, let me emphasize that I've made and am making a distinction between organic cotton and conventional cotton in their effect on me. As I'll get into in the next paragraph, I've already removed organic cotton from the equation. (I am not talking about moving to new fabrics yet, because some conv. cotton works already, and I'm trying to determine what makes it work and what doesn't).


     


    My main point (of this entire thread) is that my concern is the amount of glyphosate that seeps out of 100% cotton, before and after washing. And I never said I was sure about conventional cotton. As I have stated and restated, I am certain that organic cotton is not an option because of allergies. I have luck with some, but not all conventional 100% cotton clothing (as more of the cottonseed oil is removed—this has been the experience of many environmentally sensitive individuals), which is to suggest that there might be different chemicals/amounts of glyphosate from different manufacturers of conventional cotton. So I was asking if there was an estimate of how much glyphosate would leech out of washed conventional cotton clothing, and would it be in varying amounts? If so, this would explain the varying degrees of symptoms I experience from different conventional cotton—and further, it would make perfect sense, because the older the 100% cotton clothes they are, the better I feel wearing them (presumably because they've been washed enough times).


     


    And could someone else chime in and spare me from this relentless trolling (cannot think of any other way to describe it)?


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    Do I have to spell everything out? I was illustrating some points about the nature of allergies when I mentioned dogs and cats. Why does everything always have to be so literal with you? Would you care to try and exercise some lateral thinking, try to get "the gist" of what I'm saying, or at the very least, try not to be as contrary as possible. If you wish to assist, please don't make a mockery of everything I say.




    Telling you to stay away from fabrics made from dogs and cats was a joke, since making fabrics from dogs and cats would be considered extremely heinous to us in the western world. Kinda the entire point behind Disney's Cruella De Vil.


     


     


     


    Studies have already shown that glyphosate is not readily absorbed through the skin even when applied topically, undiluted. Washing skin with soap and water after direct topical exposure is sufficient to remove glyphosate contamination. Glyphosate is highly water soluble and washes away easily (which is one of the reasons for the major concern about glyphosate contamination in the water cycle) especially with soap, and does not readily permeate a lipid boundary such as the epidermis. Even percutaneous glyphosate (from an i.v. drip) in rhesus monkeys showed only 2.2 +/- 0.8% absorption in the higher dose range, and no residual accumulation via autopsy after 7 days.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1884912


     


    The only study I could find showing transfer from cotton fabric to skin was done with cotton sheets that had glyphosate applied to them topically and were immediately applied to skin. These results were shown again after the sheets were allowed to dry and then moistened to simulate sweat. The glaring issue I see with this study is that the sheets were not only soaked with straight glyphosate, they were never washed after being contaminated. I found no data indicating any glyphosate exposure before soaking the sheets with undiluted glyphosate. The absorption was well below 2% in all cases.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8883475


     


     


    (Here's a 2013 review on the potential for genotoxcicity of GBFs if that is a concern. They found no indication of genotoxicity: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3109/10408444.2013.770820#.VyPRdPkrKUk )


     


     


    You are more likely to come into contact with a detergent or dye that causes you issues than glyphosate from processed cotton since glyphosate washes away so easily. Dye-setting and colorfast chemicals can also cause respiratory and skin reactions, including rashes, but these chemicals also wash away easily. These are the chemicals that give your clothing that "just-bought-from-the-store" smell. 

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