Nootropics For Adult Add?

Hello just joined and I was hoping to tap what seems to be a really awesome community for some advice and direction on brain hacking.



Some background info:

I recently started to bulletproof my lifestyle starting with the coffee+vanilla powder as well as a high grass-fed protein diet while also cutting back drastically on my surgar intake and heavily on carbs in general.



I am not a regular excerciser but my work and school routine includes a 2 mile walk twice a day.

I am 27, male and weigh 250 which is about 50lbs more than I should and the original reason I started bulletproof.



I've been diagnosed with depression and ADD



These are currently being treated with Wellbutrin (150mg) and Strattera (100mg) respectively.

I also take 1200mg of Omega 3's and a vitamin D supplement.



I have been on this combo for about 2 months and while I find my mood quite stable I am not sure that the strattera is giving me the focus I need. I would like to avoid the stimulant route of ADD treatment as I am worried about the possibility of addiction as I only recently defeated a 8 year addiction to cigarettes.





So what I am wondering where should I start with Nootronics?

Should I be worried about interactions with my current medication?

What kind of benefits should I expect in the short and long term?

Comments

  • suntouchersuntoucher Uninspired Potential ✭✭✭
    edited January 2013
    You should first and foremost nail down the diet, supplements (for deficiencies), some exercise and proper sleep. That's before you start going after nootropics or other avenues of self-medication.



    Do you have your diet handled and up to BP standards?
  • I would say the diet is far from nailed down. I consistantly have the coffee in the morning with either a couple eggs or a serving of whatever high protein dinner I had the night before. I don't usually do lunch but when I do its almost always a "cheat" meal that is not bulletproof at all. I am still feeling out which recipes I like for dinner and such but right now the excitement of cooking something new every day has me consistantly having a bulletproof dinner every day. Only other thing I can think to mention is I have been using raw almonds and beef jerky from a local pasture-raised source here in the bay area as a way to snack.



    My sleep schedual is actually pretty solid, 5-7 hours a night no interruptions.



    As mentioned, no excercise routine currently.
  • TJ JTJ J skratta pa klocka
    edited January 2013
    I have similar issues with ADD and quit using all medications over a year ago. I agree with suntoucher about getting the diet down first. This has been so important for me and my bio-hacking/self experimentation because if your diet isn't perfect then you don't have a real baseline feeling to decipher the changes from the hacking. Getting my body to use fats as a primary source of fuel was a really important place for me to start. That alone will likely make significant changes to your attention issues.
  • TJ JTJ J skratta pa klocka
    edited January 2013
    doublepost
  • 'Troy wrote:


    I have similar issues with ADD and quit using all medications over a year ago. I agree with suntoucher about getting the diet down first. This has been so important for me and my bio-hacking/self experimentation because if your diet isn't perfect then you don't have a real baseline feeling to decipher the changes from the hacking. Getting my body to use fats as a primary source of fuel was a really important place for me to start. That alone will likely make significant changes to your attention issues.




    If you don't mind me asking, how did you wean yourself off while transitioning onto the diet? Im also taking strattera and would like to get off of it due to it raising my blood pressure, but the last time I tried this the withdrawal symptoms were insane.
  • TJ JTJ J skratta pa klocka
    edited January 2013
    'Tangents' wrote:


    If you don't mind me asking, how did you wean yourself off while transitioning onto the diet? Im also taking strattera and would like to get off of it due to it raising my blood pressure, but the last time I tried this the withdrawal symptoms were insane.






    Most Dr's will tell you that Straterra has no withdrawal symptoms but psychiatrists solutions are always prescription based. When one isn't working they want you to try a new one. These dr's are not self-experimenters either so they rarely speak from experience. Straterra has both physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms.



    Some questions that first come to my mind for withdrawing from straterra. Do you smoke cigarettes? What is your current dosage and timing of your Straterra? How much caffeine do you drink per day? How much water do you drink per day? What part of your diet is not paleo/bulletproof? What does your exercise regimen look like?
  • I don't smoke or drink alcohol. I have a caffeine sensitivity so I avoid any caffeinated beverages. I definitely do not drink enough water when in the workplace. I'm on a low dose of strattera at 35 mg but I'm also underweight and pretty sensitive to any medications in general. I take this first thing in the morning with breakfast. I think the most non-bulletproof thing I do is eating a TON of fruits. My favorites are the red-zoned ones ( mangoes, grapes etc) image/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> My exercise routine has suffered the most since I started SSRI's because any physical exertion makes my chest want to explode. I do a leisurely bike ride a few times a week with no problems though. I've tried alpha-brain before but found that it gave a crashing feeling at the very end of the day that wasn't pleasant.



    Age: 25

    Gender: Female

    Weight: 102 lbs



    My doctor didn't help me out at all when it came to withdrawal symptoms, he just prescribed me some benzos and led me out the door. I havent tried fish oil as a regular supplement yet, did this worked out for anyone?
  • I don't have as much experience as other posters, but my doc originally gave me Strattera as the first attempt of treating my adhd because some idiot drug rep said it was wonderful. It didn't do a darn thing other than make me really cranky, cause retrograde ejaculation, and twist his knickers when I suggested he not get his information from drug reps. He reluctantly put me on ritalin. IIRC, Strattera is 4th in line of effectiveness, behind all of the other more common drugs. My current doc put me on adderall 10mg 3xdaily for my adhd. This was ok, but after the last 3 weeks of using aniracetam, cdp-choline, and BP coffee, I feel more focused now than when i was fully dosed on adderall.



    Male

    220lbs

    Paleo diet eater trending towards the BP diet.
  • 'Tangents' wrote:


    I don't smoke or drink alcohol. I have a caffeine sensitivity so I avoid any caffeinated beverages. I definitely do not drink enough water when in the workplace. I'm on a low dose of strattera at 35 mg but I'm also underweight and pretty sensitive to any medications in general. I take this first thing in the morning with breakfast. I think the most non-bulletproof thing I do is eating a TON of fruits. My favorites are the red-zoned ones ( mangoes, grapes etc) image/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />/> My exercise routine has suffered the most since I started SSRI's because any physical exertion makes my chest want to explode. I do a leisurely bike ride a few times a week with no problems though. I've tried alpha-brain before but found that it gave a crashing feeling at the very end of the day that wasn't pleasant.



    Age: 25

    Gender: Female

    Weight: 102 lbs



    My doctor didn't help me out at all when it came to withdrawal symptoms, he just prescribed me some benzos and led me out the door. I havent tried fish oil as a regular supplement yet, did this worked out for anyone?




    Sounds like your body is starving for healthy fats.
    Please email me instead of PM

    [email protected]
  • TJ JTJ J skratta pa klocka
    edited January 2013
    I know what it's like to have to stop taking medications and deal with dr's who don't have much compassion for you. A problem that they usually started. The only time I actually used Straterra I was transitioned directly to Adderall and eventually had to withdraw from that a few different times, I've also had experiences in my life quitting opiates and benzodiazepines which are both awful experiences. (prescribed) Straterra doesn't stimulate your dopamine the same way Adderall does. It's not a stimulant but my personal experience and after conversing with a friend who used it is that it can cause headaches the same way Adderall withdrawal does.



    Even though Adderall stimulated my brain to be more efficient during work or studying sessions it interfered with my sleeping and eating patterns so badly that I absolutely needed it to function every morning. I finished an internship at the end of summer and it was only then that I really dialed in my nutrition and transitioned from Paleo to BP. The biggest difference in the shift is a little bit higher percentage of fats>proteins>carbohydrates. I have Kerry Gold + Vanilla + MCT in my coffee for breakfast. I've also replaced a lot of chicken I was eating with clean protein shakes (I just got upgraded Whey this week...I truly love it) and all of my beef is grass fed and cooked rare.



    The bulletproof diet is a really good baseline for me to start from. I don't start another job/school that requires tedious attention until April. I'm currently staying home with my son reading books like "If You Give A Dog A Donut" and "Goodnight Gorilla." Lately my mind and moods have been functioning better than ever with a bulletproof diet + resistance training + good sleep + drinking about a gallon of water a day. When I start a more detail necessary lifestyle later in 2013 I am going to probably need an extra cognitive boost so I am going to start making some decisions about nootropics/brain hacking to try soon.




    'Tangents' wrote:


    My doctor didn't help me out at all when it came to withdrawal symptoms, he just prescribed me some benzos and led me out the door. I havent tried fish oil as a regular supplement yet, did this worked out for anyone?




    If you are only on 35 mg of Straterra and are sensitive to the medication I would set a day to just quit cold turkey. There isn't much room for stepping down from much lower doses here. I'm not a medical professional but in all the Straterra forums and little bit of personal experience it seems like most people know right away if it isn't the right medication for their bio-individuality. It sounds like it's not working for you so I wouldn't want to try any longer. It also sounds like your dr has already given you his zip-lock bag of xanax plan and it didn't work.



    Fish oil and coconut oil have fatty acids that give me a significant and noticeable cognitive boost. Order some Upgraded MCT oil.



    Also, get some high quality Magnesium. I was taking CVS pharmacy brand magnesium oxide and it had none/little effect. Then I went to a local natural supplement store and got a high quality combined Magnesium Chelate and Malate supplement that has noticeable effect. Look through the supplement guide pinned on this site, I think there are some details about different types of Magnesium plus info about different Fish/Krill/Omega-3 supplements. If you think quitting Straterra will give you headaches and you love fruit...take a quality magnesium+ Avocado as part of your breakfast routine.



    Cardio isn't usually considered very bulletproof but it has been very helpful for me to get off medications. Everything from the meditative nature of it to the actual sweating. Long hikes, bike rides, cross country skiing. Do you meditate?



    Well good luck, you'll be ok! Coming off any medication is an emotional undertaking. If you have any questions these forums seem like a good spot. Update your progress.
  • edited January 2013
    Thanks for the advice Troy and Pierre! I just ordered some MCT oil and Ill get the krill oil and magnesium asap. Lets see how this works out.



    Edit: Yeah, I knew the drug wasn't really clashing with my body chemistry but its also common for a doctor to play the "It will get better, don't worry" card when patients question the regimen.
  • 'Tangents' wrote:


    Thanks for the advice Troy and Pierre! I just ordered some MCT oil and Ill get the krill oil and magnesium asap. Lets see how this works out.



    Edit: Yeah, I knew the drug wasn't really clashing with my body chemistry but its also common for a doctor to play the "It will get better, don't worry" card when patients question the regimen.




    I think you'll notice a pretty big improvement once you get on a high dose of omega-3s, I take about 1200mg in the morning and was in fact the first thing I ever did after being diagnosed. It won't make your problems vanish but they are great for helping with healthy brain function. A steady source of vitamin D is great for mood stabilization as well.



    A few other supplements you might try that I had a little success with after being recommended them by a nutritionist of all things. (These amounts are based on me being ~220lbs at the time, adjust accordingly)

    L-Tyrosine 500mg twice a day

    Sam-E 400mg once a day



    When I was purely on my supplement strategy without any medication I had some improvements but I still felt like I needed a psychiatrist. In any case, if you want to go completely medication free, you might want to give those a shot, Warning the Sam-E is pricey!
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