Buying Upgraded Beans From Amazon

Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭

My latest batch was ordered on Prime, because I didn't prepare, and ended up running out (needed the beans stat). I started to get gallbladder pains (I used to get this all the time) plus some reflux, and didn't put it together until 2 days ago that I was getting like an allergic reaction to my coffee all of a sudden. I'm pretty sure the beans I got are just a little older (roasted awhile ago or left in storage for a long time, because it's being kept in the Amazon warehouse—who knows how fresh they are?) I know some say this should have no effect, but I'm telling you it did. Has anyone else had less-than-stellar results from getting their coffee from another store besides the Bulletproof store?


Comments

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭

    What was the manufacturing date on the package? Amazon has an excellent turnaround time on their perishables, I've never seen anything even close to the expiration date and I order beverages and teas through Amazon regularly.


  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭
    edited June 2016


    What was the manufacturing date on the package? Amazon has an excellent turnaround time on their perishables, I've never seen anything even close to the expiration date and I order beverages and teas through Amazon regularly.




    I threw away the package, not having thought to check it. I still think it's the heat that makes it a problem. Also, you should really consume it or get it frozen within a week of roasting. 


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    Also, you should really consume it or get it frozen within a week of roasting. 




    Freezing coffee beans can lead to mold issues from condensation when thawing them out, I'd advise against it. Luckily I live in an area with top quality small roasters, so my coffee is always fresh and was made literally a 5 minute walk from my door ^_^

  • Jason MillerJason Miller Mother nature isn't stupid mod
    As long as you don't open the sealed storage method it until it's completely thawed condensation is not an issue. I put the 5lb bag into 6 double bagged portions and freeze, take one out at a time and thaw for 24hrs before opening and it stays out until the next one.
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  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭

    Jason do you vac-pack them or just use regular plastic bags with the air squeezed out?


  • Jason MillerJason Miller Mother nature isn't stupid mod
    Ziplock freezer bags, I use a straw to get most of the air out, they are filled right to the max. I don't have the proper equipment to confirm or deny any mold presence from my method.
    My Crossfit auto template programming here, body composition coaching through Eat to Perform here,
  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    Freezing coffee beans can lead to mold issues from condensation when thawing them out, I'd advise against it. Luckily I live in an area with top quality small roasters, so my coffee is always fresh and was made literally a 5 minute walk from my door ^_^




    I've never had any problems, but it's good advice. Thanks!

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    As long as you don't open the sealed storage method it until it's completely thawed condensation is not an issue. I put the 5lb bag into 6 double bagged portions and freeze, take one out at a time and thaw for 24hrs before opening and it stays out until the next one.




    Now that I know this method, I will put it into practice and see how it makes me feel. I had never had any problems pouring them directly into the canister from frozen and letting them thaw in there. I will see if it makes a difference in how I feel. 

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited June 2016

    I have copied Jason's method a few times (EDIT, minus double-bagging) with perfectly good results. This is my response to anyone who complains about the price of Upgraded beans: it's competitively priced in 5lb bags, just freeze. I never opened a frozen bag with less than 24 hours of thawing, but would expect condensation issues. 


     


    I still rotate in other high-quality beans for flavor variety, and don't seem to be mycotoxin sensitive. 


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭

    I couldn't get past the fact that the Upgraded beans seem to have such a neutral flavor pallet. I compared them to everything from a blonde roast to a Vienna roast, and I've never come across anything quite like that neutral pallet. I don't have any quantitative data on my susceptibility to mycotoxins in coffee, but I did not notice any performance difference from any of the high end coffee beans I compared it to at the time. They did seem to have a slight edge in caffeine content over that particular blonde roast, but that was about it. The neutral flavor pallet and the lack of detectable differences in performance for me doesn't allow me to justify purchasing in bulk and submit my coffee to freezing, especially with no roast date on the packaging, but it is good to know that pricing becomes competitive with bulk consumption. 


     


    That being said, I am intrigued by the freezing method that Jason has shared, I might play around with it and see how it impacts some beans from a local roaster. I'll give it the old fashioned sniff test, then brew a cuppa to see how it tastes after being in the freezer. What's the average length of time you guys are keeping beans in a freezer, and how long does the final portion spend in the freezer until you thaw it and use it?


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    I've never had any problems, but it's good advice. Thanks!




    Jason's double-bag method sounds like it solved the condensation concern pretty well. I'd be even more confident in a vac-pac setup due to the tiny amount of air left between the beans, but I also live in the most horribly moldy section of the country and our air and humidity contaminate everything. I've been living through a mold nightmare so I'm wary of every little nook and cranny that can trap moisture or hold pockets of moist air. The worst part about that is it can ruin the flavor of my coffee!

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭


    What's the average length of time you guys are keeping beans in a freezer, and how long does the final portion spend in the freezer until you thaw it and use it?




     


    I've gone probably 5-6 months, and also missed Jason's detail on double-bagging before, which I don't do. I just use one layer of Ziploc freezer bag, double check the seal, and put all the coffee in a back corner of the freezer where I won't be bumping stuff into it. 


     


    If you seal the bag properly, it's a closed system. Mold isn't going to grow below freezing (to my knowledge), and condensation would only be a problem if you open the bag while it thaws, letting humid household air hit cold beans. If I wait for 24 hours of thawing before opening the bag, everything in there is as dry as it was when it went in. 

  • I, too, have been doing the above mentioned bagging method for years, and have never had an issue.
  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    Jason's double-bag method sounds like it solved the condensation concern pretty well. I'd be even more confident in a vac-pac setup due to the tiny amount of air left between the beans, but I also live in the most horribly moldy section of the country and our air and humidity contaminate everything. I've been living through a mold nightmare so I'm wary of every little nook and cranny that can trap moisture or hold pockets of moist air. The worst part about that is it can ruin the flavor of my coffee!




    I'm actually a little embarrassed that you guys are more fastidious and concerned over mold than I. I'm horrified of the stuff. I double-bagged all my beans 2 days ago and even used a straw on 2 of the bags to get as much air as possible out, like Miller recommended. I don't recommend doing that, just roll it up really tight, lol. It made me feel pretty weird huffing the fumes coming off the beans, lol.

  • Jason MillerJason Miller Mother nature isn't stupid mod


    I'm actually a little embarrassed that you guys are more fastidious and concerned over mold than I. I'm horrified of the stuff. I double-bagged all my beans 2 days ago and even used a straw on 2 of the bags to get as much air as possible out, like Miller recommended. I don't recommend doing that, just roll it up really tight, lol. It made me feel pretty weird huffing the fumes coming off the beans, lol.




    Don't feel weird, no one was watching!
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  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    I'm actually a little embarrassed that you guys are more fastidious and concerned over mold than I. I'm horrified of the stuff.




    Mold contamination from environmental molds at home, yes. Environmental molds (and even temperature and condensation) can alter the flavor of coffee, usually for the worse. I don't think they will damage your health (since they are already free-floating around literally everywhere, if it got in your coffee you already breathed plenty of it) unless you brew a cup of coffee with obvious signs of mold contamination (fuzzy coffee beans, mildew smell, etc).


     


    Now mycotoxin contamination at point-of-origin does not worry me, there's been no evidence presented for a mycotoxin difference between high-end coffees vs Dave's beans and quality coffee has been routinely tested for mold for decades. 

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭
    edited June 2016


    Mold contamination from environmental molds at home, yes. Environmental molds (and even temperature and condensation) can alter the flavor of coffee, usually for the worse. I don't think they will damage your health (since they are already free-floating around literally everywhere, if it got in your coffee you already breathed plenty of it) unless you brew a cup of coffee with obvious signs of mold contamination (fuzzy coffee beans, mildew smell, etc).


     


    Now mycotoxin contamination at point-of-origin does not worry me, there's been no evidence presented for a mycotoxin difference between high-end coffees vs Dave's beans and quality coffee has been routinely tested for mold for decades. 




    Why is it different at point of origin? Mold logically could be introduced from the environment at any point. Hang studies about the matter. Also, personally I feel a huge difference. I have no idea how you don't feel a difference.


    Also, Dave provides plenty of evidence of mycotoxin contamination (due to lack of sufficient testing) to the point of countries turning away barges full of coffee, which then get diverted to the poorly regulated U.S. coasts.


  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016


    Why is it different at point of origin? Mold logically could be introduced from the environment at any point. Hang studies about the matter. Also, personally I feel a huge difference. I have no idea how you don't feel a difference.


    Also, Dave provides plenty of evidence of mycotoxin contamination (due to lack of sufficient testing) to the point of countries turning away barges full of coffee, which then get diverted to the poorly regulated U.S. coasts.




    Because I buy coffee from premium small roasters who follow the same standards as Europe (who are the ones turning away the barges full of coffee) and their coffee has already passed inspection. Thus the only place mold could be introduced is my home via poor storage techniques. 


     


    I didn't mean to make sound like there is no evidence for mold issues in commercial coffee, there has been evidence for that for decades. 


     


    Dave has not provided evidence that his beans have any less mycotyoxins than other boutique roasters. I've compared the premium coffees I buy to Dave's coffee and have found no differences in performance, so I'm not worried about any mycotoxin contamination happening before I buy my coffee and can focus on how I store it at home (the only place it could grow mold in my situation) and more importantly I can purchase it in small batches where I know the roast date and can avoid having to freeze it. I try to follow the 7-day-after-roasting window so I am sure of the freshness and have optimum flavor expression, and any mold growth or changes in temperature or humidity would be apparent, but not of the deadly variety only the disappointing kind.


     


     


    EDIT: I was trying to provide some context for my aversion to freezing coffee beans and the standards I hold to when choosing coffee and determining possible vectors for mold growth. Hope it helped!


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