Once Again, Scientific Evidence Supports Bulletproof/paleo/high-Fat

15791011

Comments

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    This is too funny actually just today they finally did an isocaloric, protein equated study comparing high carb to low carb.  In a metabolic ward, switching from the 4 week carb diet to the 4 week fat diet caused fat loss that was occuring during the carb diet to slow down to pre study levels while lean tissue and water loss ramped up substantially to make up the constituents of  weight loss during the remainder of the fat diet duration.  It's $25 if you want to read the entire paper.  This is the study that the low carb movement needed in order to validate it's claims, major defeat, this is going to spread like wildfire. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/07/05/ajcn.116.133561.abstract




    I'll have to jump on this paper once I get university access up and running in the Fall, sounds particularly interesting! From the little bit of info you provided here I can see one or two possible factors that might explain a difference in short-term dietary changes such as these and more long-term changes (epigenetic metabolism not responding to the change in diet during the shorter time frame of such a study perhaps) but assuming a constant level of exercise for the entire duration this does spark some concerns. It will be an interesting read!

  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016

    This is too funny actually just today they finally did an isocaloric, protein equated study comparing high carb to low carb. In a metabolic ward, switching from the 4 week carb diet to the 4 week fat diet caused fat loss that was occuring during the carb diet to slow down to pre study levels while lean tissue and water loss ramped up substantially to make up the constituents of weight loss during the remainder of the fat diet duration. It's $25 if you want to read the entire paper. This is the study that the low carb movement needed in order to validate it's claims, major defeat, this is going to spread like wildfire. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/07/05/ajcn.116.133561.abstract




    Discussed by Stephan Guyenet here;
    wholehealthsource.blogspot.com.au/2016/07/nusi-funded-study-serves-up_6.html


    fake it till you make it

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    Science shows otherwise I'm afraid, there is always muscle loss on low carb ketosis diets unless protein is increased substantially to the point of compromising ketosis, even the study you presented to me had dramatic muscle loss compared to the carb group.  It is an irrefutable physiological fact that when you eliminate carbs you drop water and glycogen immediately, that is why they are called carboHYDRATEs, that is why weight class professionals that need to drop water for a weigh in drop carbs before the weigh in.  I really wish you even had rudimentary knowledge of human physiology, you don't even have the basics down, and it's not an insult, you just innocently have no clue.  Some of the known effects of carbohydrates are the prevention of muscle protein breakdown, catabolism, and blunts cortisol (hello low carb adrenal fatigue sufferers). 




     


    The God of Science speaks again. I'm not worthy I guess.

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


     


    I think everyone here is consciously trying to find ways to dial in our best health, physical/mental performance, longevity, lifestyle etc. for ourselves and others. Most of us have more of a science-based approach of experimenting and dialing in what works for us rather than a faith-based approach of looking to an authority to tell us like it is. We look to experts, studies, and other high performers for ideas but personal experience is the ultimate deciding factor. I keep coming back because there's occasionally interesting posts from folks who are on this same path, and having followed this stuff for a long time it's a good place to share my own experiences. It's more of a horizontal community than a pyramid structure with Dave at the top. And of course, what better place to call Dave out on his BS than on his own forum, that he still refers his listeners to even though we contradict most of his dogma? 




     


    Straw man. I do dial it in for myself, and it works perfectly. Yes, carbs are important, but for the initial loss of insulin resistance and weight loss, low-carb is essential. Also clears out years of toxic fat (but it's important to bind what comes out with charcoal and what not).

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭


    Also clears out years of toxic fat (but it's important to bind what comes out with charcoal and what not).




    What toxins are being excreted from metabolized fat, and how exactly are you binding it with charcoal? Is the fat somehow entering the digestive tract and being metabolized there? Or coming into contact with the charcoal at another point in your system?

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    What toxins are being excreted from metabolized fat, and how exactly are you binding it with charcoal? Is the fat somehow entering the digestive tract and being metabolized there? Or coming into contact with the charcoal at another point in your system?




     


    Could somebody please rescue me from this troll? I refuse to have to prove every single thing that is already accepted in the Bulletproof community.

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016


    What toxins are being excreted from metabolized fat, and how exactly are you binding it with charcoal? Is the fat somehow entering the digestive tract and being metabolized there? Or coming into contact with the charcoal at another point in your system?




     


    Fat cells are broken down in the body, into fatty acids and glycerol, which are then used by the liver. If you are long term fasting the fat cells would be used for gluconeogenesis.


     


    Granted, toxins should also be released when fat cells are metabolized.


     


    Some toxins that are released from fat cells would be metabolized by the liver and released into the digestive system by bile which can be absorbed in the digestive tract by charcoal and eliminated from the body.


     


    We release most of our toxins by two methods, number one's and number two's. Occasionally, number three's.


    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

    http://www.fixyourgut.com

     

  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭

    I doubt it that you loose muscles from going keto. For me this one study is not a  major defeat. I could build muscle with cyclical ketosis. I am living proof that it works I guess. :P


     


    However I de believe that cals in = cals out is almost right but that inflammation thing and insulin resistance and food intolerances also plays s role and hunger loss from ketosis and so on...


    May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

    How much to eat:
    advanced | How to train: bulletproof training | HRV: HRV FOR TRAINING HRV BASICS What Affects HRV | Brain  & Memory dual n back training advanced training

     

     

  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭

    "Every" study? You are dramatizing...


     


    Here is one:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3411406/


    two http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4271639/


    three: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15972575/


     


    This article also mentions long term keto and muscle growth http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/


     


    This was just my three first google result plus one from the article (which is one of the results).


     


    Dramaqueen.


    May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

    How much to eat:
    advanced | How to train: bulletproof training | HRV: HRV FOR TRAINING HRV BASICS What Affects HRV | Brain  & Memory dual n back training advanced training

     

     

  • sparefilmssparefilms Post-human Construct ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016


    Fat cells are broken down in the body, into fatty acids and glycerol, which are then used by the liver. If you are long term fasting the fat cells would be used for gluconeogenesis.


     


    Granted, toxins should also be released when fat cells are metabolized.


     


    Some toxins that are released from fat cells would be metabolized by the liver and released into the digestive system by bile which can be absorbed in the digestive tract by charcoal and eliminated from the body.


     


    We release most of our toxins by two methods, number one's and number two's. Occasionally, number three's.




    An excellent explanation. I've seen so much blind adherence to "activated charcoal cleanses toxins from the body" without reference to how the toxins end up in the digestive system from elsewhere (like the fat or the blood). Activated charcoal follows a pretty straightforward path through the body, so toxins have to be placed in this path somehow. 


     


    Any idea on toxin excretion percentages vs metabolic re-uptake? Does excretion increase with exercise as it would for water-soluble toxins? 


     


    Another concern is determining that there are actually any toxins in your fat cells to begin with, which is why I try and ask people what toxins they are trying to detox. Is there a general list of toxins lurking in most people's fat cells that require an activated charcoal regimen?


     


     


    I believe there was some discussion during the Moldy Q&A about certain mold-related toxins secreted in the bile not being easily bound up by charcoal and needing more specifically targeted drugs to bind the bile, like the anti-cholesterol one Dave mentioned (I'll fill in the name if I can find my notes) or something like glucomannan or modified citrus pectin, otherwise they would remain dissolved and reabsorbed in a continuous cycle. Unfortunately I could not get Dave to answer or acknowledge any of my questions during the Q&A, so all I have are scribbled notes from his brief mention of a few of the "Asprey Cocktail" ingredients. 


     


     


    As someone who is beginning the hard work to recover from living in an environment that has air that could be considered clinically toxic, it's important to know what toxins you are dealing with, where they are in your system, what to use to bind and eliminate them safely, and how to target your detox regimen (when to take your sups, how to promote toxin excretion, any supplement interactions so you don't waste money binding your other sups or have an adverse reaction, that kind of thing).


  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭

    It was not meant as an insult and I apologize. I was simply astonished that you did not even read one study stating that after finding this in my first 3 google results and I did not mean to start a debate either. I just couldn't believe it. In Germany the right to free speech goes like this I can call you a Dramaqueen if you are a friend without it being considered an insult and even though I only have you in a friendslist on this forum under these circumstances I never considered this an insult.


     


    I'm out.


    May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

    How much to eat:
    advanced | How to train: bulletproof training | HRV: HRV FOR TRAINING HRV BASICS What Affects HRV | Brain  & Memory dual n back training advanced training

     

     

  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭

    south-park-bp-sorry1.png?w=640


    May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

    How much to eat:
    advanced | How to train: bulletproof training | HRV: HRV FOR TRAINING HRV BASICS What Affects HRV | Brain  & Memory dual n back training advanced training

     

     

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭
    edited July 2016


    It's not your job to prove anything, it is up to you to not blindly follow things. If you do decide to outrightly follow something and spread it without question (parroting), then you must be prepared to answer questions and have the confidence to do so without just deferring back to where you heard it as a mask of ignorance.




     


    I am complaining because I'm on a forum for a community that has a certain basis of understanding. Releasing toxins from fat and the ability to bind toxins is not something that I should have to explain. Sparefilms is simply trolling me by requiring me to qualify that. It's not like we're on a Reddit stream for our favorite coffee, and I just brought this up out of nowhere. At some point, this just gets annoying, and almost like scientific bullying. 


    You can't continue to require people


     


    And that's your opinion about what I'm doing (parroting and deferring back to where you heard it being a mask of ignorance). I have provided plenty of information to back this up. In fact, I feel that you blindly believe in CICO, whereas I've thoroughly shown that this model has deeply come into question, especially considering all that's come to light through health blogs like Mercola's and Asprey's in particular. I am referring to studies that they refer to (as well as supplemental ones that I find through Google). This is not ignorance. I'm simply sharing what has been shared. Why is that ignorant? That's all you can do (more below). It definitely doesn't make it invalid just because it was on their blogs. That seems to be your argument.



    If it's the case that I can't just "share what's been shared," then you're just as guilty. You are parroting what PubMed and the scientists in these journals that you regard so highly are saying. You do realize that anything written in a scientific journal is essentially hearsay. You can't actually determine these things to the rigorous degree that you require unless you're doing your own peer-reviewed, double blind studies. So stop being a hypocrite, and accept that there are other opinions than yours that are just as valid, based on others' experiences. Stop trying to discount me, it only makes you look close-minded, fascist, and frankly rude.


  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    I doubt it that you loose muscles from going keto. For me this one study is not a  major defeat. I could build muscle with cyclical ketosis. I am living proof that it works I guess. :P


     


    However I de believe that cals in = cals out is almost right but that inflammation thing and insulin resistance and food intolerances also plays s role and hunger loss from ketosis and so on...




     


    Your gains are meaningless to Jason Miller, because your workouts weren't peer-reviewed and double-blind. You should be lifting and eating blindfold (double blind).


    Yes, inflammation, insulin resistance, and food intolerance play a huge role in this picture. That is my argument, that it's not as simple as CICO, but they refuse to acknowledge I'm saying there's more to it. I guess me, Gary Taubes, Dave Asprey, Mercola, and countless very intelligent people who are steeped in this stuff all day long are just complete idiots for trying to redefine the paradigm and refer to more effective models of understanding for weight loss.


     


    And you were talking about muscle building, even, in regards to CICO and ketosis. I'm just talking about weight loss. The CICO model by itself does not actually work when someone is going into ketosis—like at all. Did you see the movie Fat Head? He tracked his calories in and calories out to a tee, and lost far more weight than he would if it were simply CICO. There's plenty of data backing this up.

Sign In or Register to comment.