Does Mct Oil Give You A Sour Stomach? Nausea? How Much Can You Tolerate?

edited August 2016 in The Bulletproof Diet

First few weeks of my keto diet was great, I actually had very little problems consuming MCT oil's. I started with a 1/2tbsp per day and worked my way up to 3-4 TBSP per day when I ran into a road block. One day after my exercise routine I made myself a post-workout protein drink with MCT (protein, powdered peanutbutter and 1 tbsp brain octane) and I got VERY sick. I was very close to puking and felt drained of all my energy, couldn't do anything but lie there for the rest of the day, and didn't feel too good the next day either. It was either my 3rd of 4th tbsp of the day. No digestive problems from it, just felt very sick to my stomach, like my stomach was filled with a sour acid. In the past when I've felt a sour stomach like that it usually resulted in bad diarrhea, but this time just proved to be extremely uncomfortable. I wish I could have crapped it out!


 


Ever since that day my tolerance to MCT's is very low. The onnit emulsified with C12's seems to sit a little better with me and I can have 1 tbsp with my coffee in the morning without any consequences. But now anymore after that and im pushing the envelope.


It should be stated I dont touch my MCT based drinks until I have a full meal in my stomach with lots of fiber, or with a few tsp's of soluble fiber mixed with my MCT drink. Like right now I just had my lunch, chicken salad tons of spinach and greens, and my MCT(xct, 1tbsp)+PB+fiber+coconut milk drink gave me a uncomfortable sickly feeling for a solid 30 minutes. 


 


Has anyone else experienced this? My body has done this in the past for various substances, it seems like when I take too much of something my body will rigorously reject it and cause a large amount of strong negative symptoms, and then for the next several months I wont be able to tolerate very much of whatever it was that triggered the feeling. Really hoping I can get my tolerance back because this stuff works wonders when I can consume it.


 


Are there any brands that you folks have found you tolerated better? I ordered a few more to experiment with to see how I respond to them. And how much can you guys take, and specifically when you do take too much what are the symptoms that you experience?


 


Tried to post this already and got hit with a captcha, quickly passed it and then it didn't post the topic. Of course it didn't cache what I had written with the back button, so looks like forum is not properly configuring redirect after captcha. Really annoying to type this again :)


Comments

  • I have the exact same thing happening to me with Brain Octane, that is the only MCT i tried so i cannot talk about other brands. I started with 1tbsp daily with BPC and made my way up to 3 tbsp. Lately i feel th eexact same symptoms as you, about to puke, really intense acidity in the stomach to the point that it impairs my reasoning.


    I have stopped Brain Octane for 2 days now, i am trying to switch from butter to ghee also to see if any difference.


    I have been supplementing with Betaine HCl, it relieved the nausea, sourness pretty quickly. Then got advised to try to supplement with Zinc, which i did, at first i thought his was the magic pill, i did not experienced the nausea, acidity anymore for 2 weeks.


    Symptoms are back and i am trying different stuff because i assumed (maybe wrongly) it had to do with GERD.


     


    I will try: Mastic gum. DGL licorice, Peppermint oil, Zinc carnosine and Betaine again to see if any improvement.


  • edited August 2016


    I have the exact same thing happening to me with Brain Octane, that is the only MCT i tried so i cannot talk about other brands. I started with 1tbsp daily with BPC and made my way up to 3 tbsp. Lately i feel th eexact same symptoms as you, about to puke, really intense acidity in the stomach to the point that it impairs my reasoning.


    I have stopped Brain Octane for 2 days now, i am trying to switch from butter to ghee also to see if any difference.


    I have been supplementing with Betaine HCl, it relieved the nausea, sourness pretty quickly. Then got advised to try to supplement with Zinc, which i did, at first i thought his was the magic pill, i did not experienced the nausea, acidity anymore for 2 weeks.


    Symptoms are back and i am trying different stuff because i assumed (maybe wrongly) it had to do with GERD.


     


    I will try: Mastic gum. DGL licorice, Peppermint oil, Zinc carnosine and Betaine again to see if any improvement.




     


    Good to know im not the only one. Im not sure as it needs more testing, but I seem to have no issues with the onnit emulsified MCT. Im wondering if it has less to do with the variation of C8/C10/C12's and more to do with the emulsification. Maybe its better digested, or slower digested? Or perhaps the emulsification creates a bonding that aids with the digestion in some way? I recall listening to the bulletproof podcast with Veech, and one of Veech's patients mentioned that he can do 4TBSP of brain octane (wtf!) but that 20 minutes later it causes a GI issue, UNLESS he eats "5 macadamia nuts" ...Dominic then goes on to qualify that its important to mix MCT's with "some fat" to prevent GI issues.


    Here's the exact part of that podcast -


    https://youtu.be/QO4WZIaoO7M?t=4270


     


    Now, I always have my (cold extracted to lower acidity)coffee with unsweetened coconut milk which has 4.5g of fat, and which also balances out the acid profile of coffee . When I have this sour stomach issue its often later in the day when I make a post workout protein or just MCT/PB drink, but i use the same amount of coconut milk. So the only difference is the lack of coffee and using XCT or Brain Octane vs Onnit emulsified. I think i have tried eating pecans right before drinking my afternoon MCT drink and still experienced the issue. 


     


    Looking into Betaine HCL, seems that maybe the issue is that I dont have enough acid? I will try supplementing with that and see if it helps, your post is great!


     


    So what I need to try now is - bulletproof MCT's with my morning coffee  (been scared to death to do so since it can cause such horrible sickness), or Betaine HCL supplemented with my post-workout MCT's. I regularly take 3-4 ginger pills with every single meal (3 times a day!) to relieve GI issues and to just keep a generally happy stomach. Also turmeric, which functions both as a anti inflammatory and a digestive aid. This will take a week or so, as there's only so much coffee one can take in a day haha! I also take Source Natural digestive enzymes.


     


    Also a quick google search came up with this low stomach acid test ....perhaps it will be helpful in determining whether that is a factor for you and me!


    http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/3-tests-for-low-stomach-acid/


     


    Taking Betaine HCL will cause stomach discomfort if I have regular acid levels. Not looking forward to that :/


  • Thomas_BPThomas_BP
    edited August 2016

    All the stuff i have been telling you about have due credits to: https://www.bulletproofexec.com/acid-reflux-treatment-diet-without-drugs/


    and regarding the Zinc: http://fixyourgut.com/the-magic-bullet-supplement-for-stomach-issues-zinc-carnosine/


     


    You have to start slowly with Betaine and make your way up till you feel discomfort as advised in the link above.


     


    I am too experiencing discomfort especially at the end of days, even though i do not work out regularly. Also i have noticed that i have been belching a lot lately which usually means my stomach is producing enough acid.


     


    I am also supplementing with Turmeric and started Mastic Gum today. Peppermint provides some temporary relief for me, a bit like the antacid crap you find in stores except this one is natural.


     


    A lot of folks also advise to wake up with a fresh glass of water with a pinch of Himalayan Salt (and lemon). I have yet to try that.


    Good luck and i would love to hear about your progress.


     


    Also i skipped MCT this morning and my stomach is still cramping tonight, did a 15 minutes meditation session and that helped a bit, so there might be an anxiety caused reaction to my problem too,..




  • All the stuff i have been telling you about have due credits to: https://www.bulletproofexec.com/acid-reflux-treatment-diet-without-drugs/


    and regarding the Zinc: http://fixyourgut.com/the-magic-bullet-supplement-for-stomach-issues-zinc-carnosine/


     


    You have to start slowly with Betaine and make your way up till you feel discomfort as advised in the link above.


     


    I am too experiencing discomfort especially at the end of days, even though i do not work out regularly. Also i have noticed that i have been belching a lot lately which usually means my stomach is producing enough acid.


     


    I am also supplementing with Turmeric and started Mastic Gum today. Peppermint provides some temporary relief for me, a bit like the antacid crap you find in stores except this one is natural.


     


    A lot of folks also advise to wake up with a fresh glass of water with a pinch of Himalayan Salt (and lemon). I have yet to try that.


    Good luck and i would love to hear about your progress.


     


    Also i skipped MCT this morning and my stomach is still cramping tonight, did a 15 minutes meditation session and that helped a bit, so there might be an anxiety caused reaction to my problem too,..




     


    Yea sounds like you got some external factors!


     


    I've just taken a tbsp of onnit's emulsified with lunch (2.5TBSP today so far), no issues! Seems to be only Bulletproof's octane or xct :( ....I do notice that when I take those the ketones get produced MUCH faster though, so I think this all has to do with digestion speed. 

  • Bull of HeavenBull of Heaven ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016

    I personally feel if your doing more than 2 tablespoons of some kind of MCT oil per day your doing the BPD wrong. Again my personal opinion.


     


    I try  to be pretty even keel in terms of fat consumption (MCT oil, butter, avocados, full spectrum coconut oil and olive oil), shooting for like 30g each per day which is kind of low fat for some of yins, but my recommendation stays the same I would limit MCT to under 3 TBS or 45gms a  day. Raise olive oil and butter first. 


     


    I found when I was experimenting with high doses of MCT like anything above 4 TBS a day that it was really unpredictable and experiencing some kind nausea was normal.


     


    Whats daves marketing strategy again? XTC oils is 8x as potent as Coconut oil, and BOO is 18x as potent? Kind of says it all. A lil dab il do ya.


    Make, [then,] thyself to grow to the same stature as the Greatness which transcends all measure; leap forth from every body; transcend all Time; become Eternity; and [thus] shalt thou know God. Conceiving nothing is impossible unto thyself, think thyself deathless and able to know all,—all arts, all sciences, the way of every life.  – Corpus Hermeticum XI “The Mind of Hermes”



  • I personally feel if your doing more than 2 tablespoons of some kind of MCT oil per day your doing the BPD wrong. Again my personal opinion.


     


    I try  to be pretty even keel in terms of fat consumption (MCT oil, butter, avocados, full spectrum coconut oil and olive oil), shooting for like 30g each per day which is kind of low fat for some of yins, but my recommendation stays the same I would limit MCT to under 3 TBS or 45gms a  day. Raise olive oil and butter first. 


     


    I found when I was experimenting with high doses of MCT like anything above 4 TBS a day that it was really unpredictable and experiencing some kind nausea was normal.


     


    Whats daves marketing strategy again? XTC oils is 8x as potent as Coconut oil, and BOO is 18x as potent? Kind of says it all. A lil dab il do ya.




     


     


    The majority of my fat consumption comes from things other than MCTs, which includes but is not limited to avocados, nuts, eggs, various fatty meats, coconut oil etc. We each as unique individuals produce ketones at different rates. I am fully compliant with a 4:1 keto diet, yet my ketone levels are only between 0.3-0.6 waking from a fast.


    Others might be between 1-2 on that same diet. So we each have to tailor our own needs based on our bodies individual response. I feel REALLY good when my ketone levels are above 1 millimolar, so I am trying to do everything I can to get to those levels, which requires consumption of MCTs.


    Also, I am lactose intolerant. So all of these super awesome nice dairy products that all you folks consume I cannot partake in. Story of my life :)

  • edited August 2016


    All the stuff i have been telling you about have due credits to: https://www.bulletproofexec.com/acid-reflux-treatment-diet-without-drugs/


    and regarding the Zinc: http://fixyourgut.com/the-magic-bullet-supplement-for-stomach-issues-zinc-carnosine/


     


    You have to start slowly with Betaine and make your way up till you feel discomfort as advised in the link above.


     


    I am too experiencing discomfort especially at the end of days, even though i do not work out regularly. Also i have noticed that i have been belching a lot lately which usually means my stomach is producing enough acid.


     


    I am also supplementing with Turmeric and started Mastic Gum today. Peppermint provides some temporary relief for me, a bit like the antacid crap you find in stores except this one is natural.


     


    A lot of folks also advise to wake up with a fresh glass of water with a pinch of Himalayan Salt (and lemon). I have yet to try that.


    Good luck and i would love to hear about your progress.


     


    Also i skipped MCT this morning and my stomach is still cramping tonight, did a 15 minutes meditation session and that helped a bit, so there might be an anxiety caused reaction to my problem too,..




     


    I got some Betaine HCL and have been taking it with meals, have not noticed any discomfort. I suppose that might imply I have low stomach acid? Also before I got it, I did 1TBSP onnits emulsified, 1/2 TBSP XCT ....no problems! I think I did the same thing for lunch yesterday also no problems, though I had the Betaine HCL with lunch.


     


    I got my Left Coast MCT's and did 1 1/2TBSP with my coffee after breakfast this morning and bam, no problems! I did start to get a sour stomach after about 4 hours....which is something I"ve noticed on this diet. When I let my stomach get empty it seems there is a much higher chance for discomfort. 


     


    Also, I went from 0.3 to 1.2 ketones from just 1 1/2 TBSP of the left coast MCT's!!!!! HUGE boost! Measured at 8:15 before breakfast, got 0.3, measured at 12:15 3 hours after breakfast and coffee had digested, got 1.2!


     


    Now that I've got the betaine and zinc carosine, I'll be sure to test in the mornings with brain octane and xct straight to see if they are ok. 


  • edited August 2016

    Just checking in. After yesterday's fantastic leap in my ketone levels using left coast's MCT's, I trialed just sticking to brain octane only today. Started my morning fast @ the lowest blood sugar reported in the several weeks since I've been starting this diet, which was 89!!!! While that may be crazy high to most of you, thats crazy low for me! I think the elevated ketone levels really helped regulate my blood sugar. Throughout the day I've not broken 100, 3 tests one at 89, noon at 90 and tonight at 99! 


     


    Ketones measured at 0.4 waking (around 7:30), had the usual breakfast (2 eggs, 2 bacon slices, 1 large avocado) with 1TBSP Brain Octane in my coffee. At 2pm I measured at 0.5 for ketone levels, so unsure if the the 6 1/2 hour window since ingesting the brain octane led to lowered levels of ketones? Going from 0.3 to 1.2 yesterday after a 4 hour window, and going from 0.4 to 0.5 from a 6 1/2 seems kind of strange. B.O. Is C8's though, so its possible their half life is so much shorter that it went in and out, with the left coast being comprised of both C8's and C10's its possible that it kept elevated and stayed elevated due to the C10's.


     


    But after my lunch and 1 1/2 TBSP of more brain octane I felt really really energetic and wired. I was out for most of the day so I was unable to test my levels while I felt at my best, but it felt like I took a double shoot of expresso...rarely do I feel so good without a caffeine source! I felt on fire :)


     


    5pm was when I could measure, and I measured 0.8. For me the take away was, even though my levels measured lower than yesterday, I felt much better today. I did however take 2 scoops of onnits strength + performance this morning, something I've not done in months, so I need to take that away and do some retesting to see if I can replicate results.


     


    Tomorrow I will try the left coast again and see if the great results can be replicated. 


     


    Also, of a significant note....the brain octane did not cause any sour stomach issues!!! And I've felt little stomach discomfort in general since taking the Betaine HCL! Im really hoping this is not something that will eventually wear off and force me back into discomfort. So while there needs more data, I think I can cautiously speculate that the C8's were causing my stomach distress on the possibility of being low-acid. It also seemed that the XCT (C8/C10) combo was giving me issues too....but the emulsified onnit brand was not. The onnit stuff is also half the fat (7g vs 14g of B.O. or XCT), so that would also explain why I can tolerate it better without Betaine HCL supplementation.


  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    "The onnit stuff is also half the fat (7g vs 14g of B.O. or XCT), so that would also explain why I can tolerate it better without Betaine HCL supplementation."

    ?

    So not a 1:1 comparison (in terms of fat dosage).

    Did you try halving your brain octain/xct dosages (to make them 7 grams fat).

    fake it till you make it

  • edited August 2016


    "The onnit stuff is also half the fat (7g vs 14g of B.O. or XCT), so that would also explain why I can tolerate it better without Betaine HCL supplementation."

    ?

    So not a 1:1 comparison (in terms of fat dosage).

    Did you try halving your brain octain/xct dosages (to make them 7 grams fat).




     


    In the same post I talked about consuming 1 1/2 BO without stomach issues with betaine HCL. I've also played with 2TBSP onnit's prior to the betaine making the doses 1:1. I think the emulsification really helps with digestion, or at least it appears so anecdotally.  Before the betaine HCL, i tested mixing 1/2 tbsp of B.O. , XCT with 1TBSP of the onnit emulsified with good results, no issues, which would be 1:1 in total fat to 1tbsp BO/XCT.


  • edited September 2016


    All the stuff i have been telling you about have due credits to: https://www.bulletproofexec.com/acid-reflux-treatment-diet-without-drugs/


    and regarding the Zinc: http://fixyourgut.com/the-magic-bullet-supplement-for-stomach-issues-zinc-carnosine/


     


    You have to start slowly with Betaine and make your way up till you feel discomfort as advised in the link above.


     


    I am too experiencing discomfort especially at the end of days, even though i do not work out regularly. Also i have noticed that i have been belching a lot lately which usually means my stomach is producing enough acid.


     


    I am also supplementing with Turmeric and started Mastic Gum today. Peppermint provides some temporary relief for me, a bit like the antacid crap you find in stores except this one is natural.


     


    A lot of folks also advise to wake up with a fresh glass of water with a pinch of Himalayan Salt (and lemon). I have yet to try that.


    Good luck and i would love to hear about your progress.


     


    Also i skipped MCT this morning and my stomach is still cramping tonight, did a 15 minutes meditation session and that helped a bit, so there might be an anxiety caused reaction to my problem too,..




     


    After more experimentation and time to analyze results, I think that my issue is related to too much stomach acid, not too little. I would also be wary of creating personal bias by reading articles such as the one you posted from Dave on low-stomach acid. I try not to treat Dave like a all-knowing individual, as it seems that he is not immune to snake oil tactics. For example his whole mycotoxin debate is complete horseshit. He pedals his 10x expensive coffee on literally no scientific merit, and the entire industry is against his perceptions. I would think that mycotoxins are in the same boat as polyphenols, which are micro toxins (confusing eh?), that actually have a net positive effect on your health by triggering anti-stress epigentic mechanisms. Also, there has been extensive testing done on coffee brands and almost all major brands have either no mycotoxins, or well beneath the threshold for health warnings. He has created fear and doubt over a non-existent issue simply to peddle his products, and for that I've lost a lot of trust in him because of it. A google search on the issue will show all of the data on the subject, which is pretty extensive.


     


    The stomach produces 1-3 liters a day of gastric juices, so the 5000mg of Betaine HCL I was taking would have a negligible impact on overall acidity levels.  I stopped before I could take more, didn't notice much of any difference and it didn't reduce the discomfort I was feeling. The issue primarily shows its face when I get hungry 3-4 hours after my last meal, so assuming a empty or near empty stomach.


     


    I've discussed the issue at length with a good friend who is a doctor/professional scientist/Salk researcher who has explained to me that it is not enough to test just with Betaine HCL, but that you must also test with antiacid's or PPI's to see if doing the opposite causes extra discomfort or relief.


     


    After getting some calcium carbonate (1000mg), and waiting for the stomach discomfort to occur, I noticed that after taking the TUMS my stomach feels better within about 5 minutes. This is data point #1 in favor of my issue being over acidic. Also, the relief it brings is short term, only 30min-1HR ...which is also exactly consistent with the life of the antiacids which exits the stomach rather quickly if its empty (30-60 minutes).


     


    Another point is that the discomfort I feel can be neutralized by eating. If I get that sour stomach feeling on a near empty stomach, all I have to do is eat a nice solid meal and the discomfort disappears. Since most food helps neutralize acid, this is highly suggestive that the issue is related to higher acidity.


     


    The fact that I start to have the issue as I get hungry also supports the theory it is related to higher acidity, as the stomach has higher acidity when you are hungry on a empty stomach. This site, while the URL seems kinda nonsense-do-not-trust-ish, actually has pretty good info and talks about the exact issue I am having. Just found it right now as I was googling for empty stomach acid levels.


     


    http://www.nemechekconsultativemedicine.com/?page_id=1289


     


    So for now, im trying to be more cautious with my MCT supplementation.  The greater amount of MCT I consume, the greater discomfort I experience when my stomach starts to get empty or I start to get hungry. 2TBSP per meal/coffee is a almost guaranteed not-fun time in 3-4 hrs, and 1TBSP seems to be manageable. The key is to just not have a empty stomach for too long, but I understand that may not be desirable or feasible to a lot of people.


     


    And, it should be known that consuming high-fat diets stimulate acid production. In opposition, carbs are great at reducing acidity, along with leafy vegetables. So for me, where I eat eggs avacado and bacon for breakfast with my coffee, zero carbs, it makes complete sense that I would have issues with over production of acid. The fattier content you eat, the more acid your stomach produces, which leads to a more likely sour stomach especially when near empty or empty!


     


    http://www.livestrong.com/article/555634-shelled-nuts-acid-reflux/


     


    After learning this, it is making me question Dave even more. Surely someone who advocates a ketogenic diet knows it would be a high fat diet, that would result in more, not less, acid? Why would he peddle such bias towards low stomach acid considering this information? That seems crazy talk to me.


     


    I will acquire some DGL and test for a few weeks to see if it shows any results. I've been taking the zinc carosine daily without noticing any benefit, though I understand it may not show itself short term or in any noticeable ways. I put DGL in the same category. Also, be way of acquiring DGL in chewable tablets, they are all loaded with fake sugars. Stupidly enough, the first one I got has fructose, mannitol AND sorbitol. Its one thing to put sugar in, but why combine a digestive soothing aid with things that are known irritants?


     


    I will just get the DGL that comes in a gel capsule, and empty it in my mouth and swallow daily, so that I can get it without all of the fake sugars known to cause stomach discomfort.


     


    I would advise anyone who is having a sour stomach to take a tums first. If the issue is relieved for a short period of time its strongly indicative of high acidity, not low acidity.


     


    For now, im going to try to consume less MCT's and makeup for it using other fat sources. Just found out about primal kitchens avocado basil sauce, YUM! So good! 1TBSP is manageable, but the discomfort is still there and really changes my headspace. I can feel a noticeable difference in my mental and body's state when I start to feel poorly...I get instantly cloudy headed and low energy.


     


    Better to mix things up, not experience discomfort!


  • Sugar and/or dairy gives me those symptoms.

  • I can tell you that it depends on the tolerance you have built up. If I go a while without it and then I add it in my Bulletproof coffee, I typically get an upset stomach. After a couple days it goes away.

    It is what it is.

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