I'm 24 And I Have Low T. I've Tried Everything. Can You Help Me?

24

Comments

  • @BPSupplemented said:

    @Kynarr said:

    I'm not sure. Weight suddenly jumped from ~138lbs to ~145lbs over 10 days as I eat 3k cal a day, which isn't really much. I figure it must be water retention, which sounds odd, as I don't believe Ostarine causes this. Strength has definitely gone up, but I'm making efforts to eat more than usual, so just from muscle memory you'd expect that to happen.

    Besides that, all is fine. I'm sleeping very, very well. No sides at all, except my love handles itch at me like never before. My attention is constantly redirected towards them, I can just feel them non stop and it just won't subside. I've no idea what's causing it and I can't seem to find any such concern online. Is it fat melting, or is it an insane accumulation of fat? I've no idea. I'm worried my T might get more than minimally suppressed and create some estrogen dominance.

    I'm just going go through the whole 4 weeks and report, but up to now, I'm not feeling a omg wow I'm getting shredded effect. We'll see.

    Thats interesting about the itching, maybe it has something to do with more bloodflow to the area? Which vendor did you order the Ostarine from? Maybe can see what they have to say about it.

    It's always been a thing for me really, I just feel like it's worse on Ostarine. I've always felt my fat like crazy the moment I eat any more than maintenance.

    I just got done watching another Podcast by Dave and he talks about stretch marks caused by estrogen. I'm not sure I grasp the subject, but I've had insane stretch marks ever since I was 15 on my back, butt, thighs and knees.. and that's as I weighed ~125 pounds at most, as a tall teenager. I'm wondering if maybe, I've had high estrogen forever, and was actually prone to low T or plain trouble gaining muscle? In any case, it doesn't seem like SARMs will fix my issue, rather at this point I'm worried Ostarine is making it worse.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLSGkNZ3lZbGvOE35BXc0hBUfhHuRhP51y&v=24OsXO5DbhM

    Also wondering if this might not have to do more with genes. My mother has had 3 cancers caused by estrogen dominance. Maybe it's a mix of my fate combined with post Accutane effects.

  • Hey guys,

    I'll be getting a prescription for my next blood work this thursday and I want to make sure I have my bases covered. I've tried to account for all the suggestions in this thread. Would you kindly comment on what I'm about to get tested and if anything else is worth adding? I'm really looking to get a more detailed view on my hormones in order to fix my issues for good. Thank you! :)

    Copper
    Zinc
    Magnesium
    Vit A
    Vit D
    Cholesterol

    Hormones
    Free + Total T (+ bioavailable T?)
    DHEA
    DHT
    Estradiol
    SHBG
    Cortisol
    LH
    FSH
    Prolactin

    Thyroid: TSH T3 T4

  • @Kynarr said:
    Hey guys,

    I'll be getting a prescription for my next blood work this thursday and I want to make sure I have my bases covered. I've tried to account for all the suggestions in this thread. Would you kindly comment on what I'm about to get tested and if anything else is worth adding? I'm really looking to get a more detailed view on my hormones in order to fix my issues for good. Thank you! :)

    Copper
    Zinc
    Magnesium
    Vit A
    Vit D
    Cholesterol

    Hormones
    Free + Total T (+ bioavailable T?)
    DHEA
    DHT
    Estradiol
    SHBG
    Cortisol
    LH
    FSH
    Prolactin

    Thyroid: TSH T3 T4

    Those all look good, hopefully no push back from doctor to run all those tests (Im in Canada too and getting a doc to run extensive tests is like pulling teeth).

  • KynarrKynarr
    edited November 2016

    @BPSupplemented said:

    @Kynarr said:
    Hey guys,

    I'll be getting a prescription for my next blood work this thursday and I want to make sure I have my bases covered. I've tried to account for all the suggestions in this thread. Would you kindly comment on what I'm about to get tested and if anything else is worth adding? I'm really looking to get a more detailed view on my hormones in order to fix my issues for good. Thank you! :)

    Copper
    Zinc
    Magnesium
    Vit A
    Vit D
    Cholesterol

    Hormones
    Free + Total T (+ bioavailable T?)
    DHEA
    DHT
    Estradiol
    SHBG
    Cortisol
    LH
    FSH
    Prolactin

    Thyroid: TSH T3 T4

    Those all look good, hopefully no push back from doctor to run all those tests (Im in Canada too and getting a doc to run extensive tests is like pulling teeth).

    You're absolutely right. I met with my family doc this morning. She wasn't open to further testing seeing as I've already got what she defined as way too much testing 6 months back. Most of all she's unwilling to consider the possibility that my issues might come in part from Accutane. As far as she's concerned, my many abnormal issues that I can't seem to solve are either in my head, or I was just predisposed to it. She referred me to an andrology specialist, so I guess this is the next professional I'll get to discuss this with. Not until January, unfortunately. I guess this gives me time to finish playing with Ostarine, PCT, Iodine, etc.

    In the mean time, I still feel like crap. If Ostarine's done anything yet, I think, it's just deposit more fat on my sides as I desperately push myself at the gym and gain weight. Sigh.

  • RekaReka ✭✭✭

    Can you get the tests yourself in a private lab? I guess at least part of what you pay for the test you could save by not having to pay the doctor to prescribe them. Doctors are the same in Hungary too, God forbid they test anything, it's really absurd. If you want to get into any depth besides the very elementary basics, you can buy them at a private lab which require no paper from a doctor. If you can afford it. Bottom line, is there a way to cut out the middle man / woman?

    It doesn't get easier... It's you who gets better.

     

    Is your social worker in that horse?

     

    Success has a price, not a secret.

  • @Reka said:
    Can you get the tests yourself in a private lab? I guess at least part of what you pay for the test you could save by not having to pay the doctor to prescribe them. Doctors are the same in Hungary too, God forbid they test anything, it's really absurd. If you want to get into any depth besides the very elementary basics, you can buy them at a private lab which require no paper from a doctor. If you can afford it. Bottom line, is there a way to cut out the middle man / woman?

    You're right. That's what I'll have to do going forward. I was still in touch with my family doc due to the fact that everything that goes through her is streamlined and free, but private services are absolutely available too. I don't really appreciate feeling resistance to additional testing from the public system anyway. I'll do whatever testing needs to be done no matter the cost if it helps me. For now, this will wait until I meet with an andrology specialist.

  • I have not read all the comments in this thread. So I apologize if I'm repeating anything. But yes, a total testosterone should be around 1000. The reference range has nothing to do with ideal. Also, your estradiol is high at 84, 25 is a better number. This is coming from too much of your testosterone being converted to estrogen. Of course, nutrition, avoiding toxin and all is very important, but I see you are on to that. A low dose of an aromatase inhibitor will stop this - just 1/2 mg of anastrozole every two weeks - you don't want to drop your estrogen too low - men need a little estrogen just as women need a little testosterone. If this is not enough, HCG or Clomid should stimulate your testes to produce. Most MD's won't know how to handle this, and endocrinologists are the worst. Find a doctor who knows Functional medicine - functionalmedicine.org, A4M.com, biotemedical.com, are some places to look. Good luck.

  • @bam86 said:
    I have not read all the comments in this thread. So I apologize if I'm repeating anything. But yes, a total testosterone should be around 1000. The reference range has nothing to do with ideal. Also, your estradiol is high at 84, 25 is a better number. This is coming from too much of your testosterone being converted to estrogen. Of course, nutrition, avoiding toxin and all is very important, but I see you are on to that. A low dose of an aromatase inhibitor will stop this - just 1/2 mg of anastrozole every two weeks - you don't want to drop your estrogen too low - men need a little estrogen just as women need a little testosterone. If this is not enough, HCG or Clomid should stimulate your testes to produce. Most MD's won't know how to handle this, and endocrinologists are the worst. Find a doctor who knows Functional medicine - functionalmedicine.org, A4M.com, biotemedical.com, are some places to look. Good luck.

    Thank you for further confirming my thoughts in regards to my current levels. I wasn't sure my Estrogen was okay, I guess that's one more thing to fix along with my SHBG. If possible, I'd hope to avoid prescriptions, but I will certainly look into it if all else fails. Until January, I'll be taking longjack and DIM to hopefully increase my T levels a bit and prevent excessive estrogen.

    I'll look into the places you linked. Thank you!

  • thanks @HegReg33 your post really helped me. the whole relaxation part. this just made my day better.

  • @dmnk926 said:
    thanks @HegReg33 your post really helped me. the whole relaxation part. this just made my day better.

    And you made my day better, happy to help! :)

  • Hey guys, little update!

    Was able to meet the andrologist today. She agreed that I have low total T and high SHBG, which she used to determine I have low free T. She doesn't test for free T, rather deduces it from these two numbers. I was prescribed something called Androgel, but I'll have blood tests done asap to determine where I'm at since June, BEFORE attempting anything. The only things I could get her to test is Hematocrit, LH, Prolactin, SHBG, Total T and PSA. Nothing else. She has no use for any mineral or vitamin, didn't care to test other hormones, doesn't know anything about DHT, has never heard of SARMs, believes doing exercise and going to the gym does not in any way impact Testosterone, and of course knows nothing about my issues being potentially caused by Accutane.

    I'm not sure if this is standard, but through speaking with her, I could really see how much of a generalist she is, ironically, even though she's supposedly a specialist. I doubt she's deepened her knowledge in the past 30 years. Didn't seem to know much of anything besides what she must tell every man that enters the room. I guess she just prescribed me the same thing she prescribes any other person, independently of their situation, only because I have low T, and without caring for any other factor.

    I'm really not sure if I'll take anything prescribed through her. I don't at all feel understood or confident that this would truly help me. It will be tough to find a better specialist here in Quebec so I'm not sure what's next.

    In regards to Ostarine, well it helped me without a doubt. I gained a little bit over 10 pounds over the 30 days I was on it. Definitely gained more strength than I usually would, and weight, too, as I didn't eat all that much. I don't think I gained this much fat, though the tingle sensation remains, I still don't know what it means. I'm down for trying it again early next year.

    I'm getting more and more interested in Iodine. It just wakes me up like nothing else. I sleep less and feel much more aggressive, in a good way. I'm curious to know if my hormones are currently better than they were in June because of this. I've been upping the dose, currently at ~20mg a day, always with the co-factors magnesium, vit C, vit K2 and Selenium. Everything seems to be improving. Hair quality, skin quality. Chronic rhinitis is better. I feel more social and witty.

    Thank you all for your help until now! It's not omg wow amazing I'm cured!!!, but I feel like I've made tremendous progress recently.

    Still don't have Butea, though.. :(

  • @Kynarr said:
    andrologist... didn't care to test other hormones, doesn't know anything about DHT, has never heard of SARMs

    derp

    Not even estradiol? Really??

    Be sure to use Se-Methyl L-Selenocysteine over others. Appears to be safer and ore effective than the other forms, and is the natural form of selenium from Brassicas and Alliums.

    Glad to hear you're doing better.

  • Thank you as usual @HegReg33 for your help! Nope, not even Estradiol haha, I asked her and she said she has no use for it. I will look into this form of Selenium, up until now i've just been eating brazil nuts, which feel really moldy, so it probably wouldn't hurt to change this.

  • @Kynarr said:
    In regards to Ostarine, well it helped me without a doubt. I gained a little bit over 10 pounds over the 30 days I was on it. Definitely gained more strength than I usually would, and weight, too, as I didn't eat all that much. I don't think I gained this much fat, though the tingle sensation remains, I still don't know what it means. I'm down for trying it again early next year.

    Hey where did you order this in Canada? Peptide warehouse? Any trouble getting it through customs or anything?
    Thanks

  • @BPSupplemented I bought it here https://nootropicsource.com/

    No issue with customs, I received it in like 3 business days. It's not a very known website, but the few reviews you'll find online are all positive; there is no negative report that I could find. I emailed them to inquire a bit and got this below. Haven't been able to get the purity results though. It's also the cheapest I could find, bare Alibaba. If you really want to try your hand at it, I believe most companies source their SARMs straight from a chinese company named Xi'an Lyphar Biotech. Xian did provide purity results. I'm attaching one for reference.

    NOOTROPICSOURCE:
    On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Nootropic Source info@nootropicsource.com wrote:
    This isn't a matter of confidence.
    Our lab produces this ourselves in house.
    Then we get it independently tested per batch to validate our purity results.
    Make no mistake, none of our products are phoney.

    XIAN:
    Based on 10g, the quotation details as follows:
    Product name: Ostarine
    Purity:99%
    Product price for 10g: USD48
    Shipping cost to Canada: USD12 by China Post E-packet
    Total cost: USD60
    Delivery time: Within 1 working days after receving your payment
    Arrive time: Within 7~10 working days after delivery

    Yes, we can supply ostarine capsule for you. 10g powder generally can do 1000capsuls, 10mg per capsule. Total Price is USD85, with shipping cost to Canada. we can amke delivery within 3 working days after receiving your payment.

  • @Kynarr, Sounds like the Canadian Andrologists are as brainwashed as our endocrinologists in the US. Estradiol needs to be tested anytime you are looking at testosterone, because testosterone converts to estradiol in everyone, but to some more than others, and you don't know until you test, though symptoms, such as nipple sensitivity, can be a symptom. I've never seen Androgel or the other commercial topicals to be effective, but compounded testosterone creams can be. However, with someone your age, there are likely better options.

    I'd be concerned about ostarine, I'd rather take exactly the hormone you are missing, not something sort of like it - and it is extremely unlikely you have an ostarine deficiency.

    I'd say stop wasting your time and find a medical doctor or naturopath who is comfortable with this. Try functionalmedicine.org, A4M.com, biotemedical.com, and there are others. Mostly they do not take insurance because they don't work for insurance companies or the government - they work for YOU.

    Good luck, and keep us posted.

  • Sorry I'm not adding to the "keep taking more pills" argument that people seem to be presenting, but here's another perspective/idea that might help your T problem. (only might, I'm not like an expert or anything)

    Apparently, according to your circadian rhythm, the time for testosterone is between 6-7 (yes, both AM and PM). If you want to decrease (that's me, I'm such a girl, and want to avoid things like PCOS, etc) the advice is to remain calm, rest and make 6-7 as downtime.

    You, however, sir, if you want to INCREASE your T, I'm guessing you do the opposite. Make that your time to head to the gym, go for a walk, do something ACTIVE between 6-7 pm to increase your body's natural production of testosterone. Better if this is out in the sunshine--> another non-pill solution, I know, you might not want to try something that sounds too easy.

    Oh, and pardon me for the TMI moment incoming, but I've also heard that exposure to sunlight boosts most of the body's sex hormones (for everyone). So I'm thinking: naked sunbathing!! No, literally: get some sun on your pink bits and that'll make your body want to produce more T (and it might make you less sleepy or at least get that sleep cycle back in check, which takes us back to your natural circadian rhythm and back to my first suggestion).

    Please let me know if you try this and if you notice any success with it. So far, my advice falls on women trying to LOWER T, and they've usually found success with my advice. I'm very curious if a man experiences success with the "opposite" situation.

  • @bam86 Thank you for confirming my thoughts in regards to Estradiol. I thought it was really weird that she was unwilling to test for it. I added it myself to the prescription so I'll have it anyways. In regards to Ostarine, I was worried while on it, but in retrospect I feel very positive about it. I'll definitely do another cycle of what's left in early 2017, before possibly moving on to other SARMs.

    @Trillian Haha, I appreciate any advice that doesn't focus on pills! I don't enjoy taking them all that much, it just seems to be the last resort as most other areas are covered already. I figure if my hormone production was ruined by pills, pills might fix it.

    I've been going to the gym between 6 and 10pm for as long as I've been training. I'm really not a morning person. I tend to go at 6pm after my day of work. As far as sunshine, I get as much of it as possible considering where I live. I've yet to try naked sunbathing or other light hacking down there as suggested by @DMan but it's on my to do list.

    I'm totally ignorant at this btw, but I don't feel it's best to lower your T as a woman? Of course yours is generally much lower to begin with, but I always ran on the assumption that you should seek to maximise your levels, even as a women. My bodybuilding female friends seem very healthy and lively at least.

  • KynarrKynarr
    edited December 2016

    Results are in.

    Total T: 434 (15nmol/L)
    SHBG: 47 nmol/L
    Prolactin: 7 ug/L
    FSH: 2.4 Ul/L
    LH: 1.1 Ul/L
    PSA: 0.83 ug/L
    Estradiol: Missing from the results.

    SHBG is down by 3. Total T is down from 505 by a lot considering how hard I've been trying to increase it. PSA is up from 0.65.

    So that's the results of 6 months of intensive research and experiments with CdG, Iodine, MK-2866, vit K, magnesium, LongJack, DIM, vit C..

    Funny thing, on the PSA results, there's a paragraph about 5-ARI caused by drugs such as finasteride and accutane, and that the reference range needs to be cut in half. They're rubbing it in my face I swear haha.

    I'll be honest, I don't know what to do anymore. I'm actually crying. I try to be optimistic, but I feel I'm screwed no matter what I try. On to Testosterone therapy for the rest of my life..

  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016

    are you taking any 'prostate health' type drugs/supps ?
    Eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5α-Reductase_inhibitor
    Eg. saw palmetto

    fake it till you make it

  • To my knowledge, I never have. The little knowledge I have of saw palmetto is that post-Accutane users absolutely need to avoid it. I'm super scared of anything that coincides with the damage I believe was caused by Accutane, including more in-depth subjects such as FoxO1/IGF-1.. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3219165/

  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016

    & what did the andrologist have to say.
    Does she still think you have low Free T, based on your Total T & SHBG numbers

    fake it till you make it

  • I don't get to see her before January 30th, so I'm left with results without feedback, but that she asked to meet me not even two months after first meeting her absolutely indicates that she believes my results are bad. I'm currently learning what the numbers mean, but If I understand this correctly, my LH/FSH signaling is indeed low, which seems to validate my theory that the pituitary gland was inversely impacted by accutane. What's worrisome is that it's yet to be fixed 5 years down the road. I'll assume my total T is down due to winter time, not currently supplementing vit D, and a slight suppression from my MK-2866 trial, as it had only been 11 days off when I got my hormones tested. In spite of this, I'd have thought my levels would have increased through all the other supplements I've been trying, along with Iodine. Hell, I took LongJack daily for 10 days prior to the test..

    These are the two reference studies I know of accutane/pituitary relation:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25721216
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21103844

  • I finally received my Butea! It sure took a while. I'm trying 300mg live now. I'm working very hard on anything that would help fix permanent 5-ARI withdrawal symptoms. This is pretty much what I'm working on right now:

    http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800 1282061244.ipb
    http://www.propeciahelp.com/treatments

    Any help or suggestion will be greatly appeciated. I still haven't fixed anything despite all my attempts, and I've yet to find anything that would help my hormones in the slightest.

    Next might be Arimidex.

  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭

    Where/from who, did you buy the Butea ?

    & fingers crossed for you

    fake it till you make it

  • @daz said:
    Where/from who, did you buy the Butea ?

    & fingers crossed for you

    Straight from Thailand through Ebay. Not ideal I know, but I could find no other source being in Canada. It came with a little Butterfly Pea tea gift. I had no idea this was a thing haha.

    I appreciate the support, thank you!

  • Hello,

    I think I read your post correctly. I am about 12 years older but my Thyroid was completely affected by Goitragens! Everyone around me was eating Kale, kale is amazing blah blah blah! Well it's the worst raw, in a month I gain a lot of weight more than 15 to almost 20 pounds of eating basically kale, chicken, eggs. If you look up goitragens you get food like broccoli, kale, cauliflower. Raw they have a chemical that stops your thyroid from accepting the stimulating hormone and cause goiters. Which I now have :(

    Long story short, for myself, after years of doing Paleo, Yoga, Crossfit, Calorie counting, etc etc. It took everything to lose weight that weight. I was finally where I wanted to be and I was re-ended and got another TBI. I put on 20 lbs and wasn't able to lose it until I started doing bulletproof. I am barely exercising(as per my specialists advice) and I am losing weight and my cystic acne is clearing. I can actually start to see ab lines. Make sure you only eat goitragens cooked try to follow bulletproof ratios for fat to protein. For me the paleo diet only added weight to me.

    As for the itching - Having low Thyroid levels can lead to eczema and psoriasis. Hope that helps a little! If I didn't get the low T right then my apologies.

  • @SophieSR Thank you for your comment! I learned a bit more about Goitrogens when I started taking Iodine two months back. My understanding is that Iodine helps ensure that Goitrogens don't cause harm. I'm personally definitely not having issues with that, but if you haven't yet tried Iodine, definitely order some!

    The itching I've been having is.. fat itch. I'm not sure how exactly to convey it, as it's not so much an itch as it's really a constant fat feel. My attention is just constantly redirected towards my side fat, to the point where it's just about unbearable. I can feel it, as if it was an alien body that's working something bad. I've yet to understand it, and nobody I discuss it with seems to understand it.. not even overweight people.

    -

    I experimented a bit with Butea, in doses up to 1200mg a day. Higher libido, but nothing much else to speak of. I think it made my skin even more dry than usual, which is odd as I'd expect higher DHT to stimulate sebum production. I've been taking Creatine too for the past three weeks to try and raise my DHT. Again, nothing good.

    Next for me is Anaztrozole or Letrozole. I stumbled upon a post made by someone affected by Prophecia. Same condition, same hormone levels. Apparently Letrozole helped lower E and restore T to normal-high levels. I'm hopeful this will help. I'm running out of ideas.

    http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7548&start=160

  • Do yourself a favor and do not take letro for low T.

  • @Jason Hooper said:
    Do yourself a favor and do not take letro for low T.

    Why not? The person I referenced, who tried it, had great success from it, going from 14 to 34 T nmol. What else do you suggest for a 24yo stuck at 434 T despite every attempt? I'm all ears, but I feel like this is the next warranted step.

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