What Are The Synergistic Effects Of Taking Aniracetam & Modafinil?

Also do you need to take Choline with Aniracetam if you're Choline dominant? My morning ritual would be water w/ pink salt when I wake up then bulletproof coffee with MCT Oil and Aniracetam. Then Modafinil maybe a couple hours later. Anyone taking the same supplements - whats your routine look like?

Comments

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    Modafinl has side effects people that don't warrant it's use. Jesus Christ the mainstream media makes it out to be a wonder drug, Nicotine is more effective for cognitive functions and in the long run is safer because it's been around forever and its only counter-indication is heart disease. Aniracetam like all racetams deplete Choline (to make aceytlcholine in the brain) and folate as well as B6. Supplements have side effects and deplete that body also a lot of the time. Modafinil increases histamine in the hypothalmus, which in itself increases alertness at the cost of arousal control and mark my words will lead to Adrenal fatigue and or failure. There is just safer "brain hacks" then modafinil. Dave comparing the risks of tylenol to modafinl is a load of crap. Tylenol depletes Gluathione and damage to the liver can be minimized by taking NAC or upgraded Gluathione. Modafinil on the other hand noone truly knows how it works and the true safety either. It hasn't been out long enough. Remember nonbenzos like lunesta were "safe" until they were linked to cancer and other nasties. I agree with doctor Brownstein, that no drug should be taken that alters an enzyme reaction or a neurotransmitter unless truly needed and modafinl fits this bill.



    My Brain Hack Stack



    Aniracetam

    Thorne Resarch B Complex 5

    Mag Mind 400 mg

    Holy Basil Gaia Herbs

    Sulbutiamine

    Aceytl L-Carnitine

    Fish Oil

    DMAE

    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

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  • 'Ron wrote:


    Modafinl has side effects people that don't warrant it's use.



    Modafinil increases histamine in the hypothalmus, which in itself increases alertness at the cost of arousal control and mark my words will lead to Adrenal fatigue and or failure.




    Is this just a late night rant or do you have a few links to back this up?
    Seeing through the chaotic.
  • OceanRayOceanRay
    edited February 2013
    'Ron wrote:


    Modafinl has side effects people that don't warrant it's use.


    What specifically are the side effects? What's your evidence?


    'Ron wrote:


    Modafinil on the other hand noone truly knows how it works and the true safety either.


    As it seems you're the only one who truly knows Modafinil's true safety and side-effects, it would be great if you could enlighten us further.
  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    By the way I don't "rant" I know my shit! I don't say anything that I can't back up.



    I know when people take drugs they don't read this shit: http://www.provigil....ribing_info.pdf



    SJS BLACK BOX WARNING FOR ONE!



    Look at the mechanism of action increases dopamine and histamine. Also 8%-10% of people taking provigil said fuck the drug during trials because of the side effects.



    It's also been "UPDATED" (And if by updated the drug companies knew it was addictive like they knew Ambien was) that modafinil might be addictive. http://www.ncbi.nlm....es/PMC3286657/. A drug that increases dopamine might be addictive (I don't know like Morphine) imagine that!



    Also the increased "wakefulness" might cause sleep debt which will in turn lower the immune system and cause adrenal fatigue (also mentioned as a post trial side effect).



    From said article:



    "In general, we believe that sleep helps to build the immune system. Sleep deprivation induces stress responses and impairs immune functions url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B15"]15[/url],[url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B16"]16[/url. However, reports for immunomodulating effects of modafinil for keeping wakefulness are quite limited. An investigation for immunomodulation effects of modafinil is a significant step in itself. The disruption of circadian rhythm and sleep control may influence the neuro-immune circuits url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B32"]32[/url],[url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B33"]33[/url. A waking drug may have effects on neuro-immune circuits. If someone, who is a non-narcoleptic patient, wants to use modafinil for waking, enhancing their cognition, or brightening his mood, they may already be under a high level of stress, like soldiers in a battle field. It is possible that modafinil seekers already face quite a stressful situation. Stress responses via the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis start from corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B58"]58[/url],[url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B59"]59[/url. The waking effect of modafinil is related to CRH url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B60"]60[/url. Modafinil cannot be excluded from investigation for immunomodulatory effects of stress. Serum C-reactive protein level, which indicates the inflammation level of an individual, was increased by a single dose of modafinil, while it reduced host resistance to Listeria monocytogenes infection url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B2"]2[/url."



    And this is all from what "they" are telling you and I, imagine what "they" aren't telling us.



    Just because I say something doesn't make it true. The same can be said of Dave. Research all this shit on your own, make your own conclusions.

    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

    http://www.fixyourgut.com

     

  • edited February 2013
    Sorry for the rant comment. It was uncalled for.



    Reportedly, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome effects roughly 300 people in the US per year out of 313,000,000. Of those, roughly 100 are men and 200 are women, which brings my risk even lower. Of those, maybe 1 to 5 die, and I'd guess more of those would be women. That kind of risk is extremely low, and worrying about it seems a bit like paranoia.



    In a community of people who pay attention to themselves and their reactions to everything they put in their body, I'd guess if modafinil interrupted their sleep patterns (I sleep like a baby) or caused whatever other side effects and became not worth the effort...they would cease to use it and move on. I have noticed zero negative side effects that bother me. Dry mouth and maybe dry eyes from not blinking as often are easy to correct with a glass of water. Feeling tired and unproductive are the side effects of not taking it, but of course that can also be corrected through force of will, diet, exercise, etc.



    Addiction is a tricky and wide open diagnosis. I take my pill early in the day, and by that same days end I feel 100% back to normal. I feel no desire to up my dose nor feel any tolerance build up or withdrawal symptoms. It has no negative effect on my social life. (possibly the opposite) Maybe I'm just a lucky one, but I know three others who take it and report no addictive qualities to the drug other than thinking it helps them be more productive, and liking their new energy levels . I spent a good six weeks reading 1000's of articles, forum posts, medical write-ups and the like before deciding the risk factor was low enough for me (a husband and father of two boys) to take the plunge. I did not consider the risks lightly.
    Seeing through the chaotic.
  • 'Ron wrote:


    By the way I don't "rant" I know my shit! I don't say anything that I can't back up.



    I know when people take drugs they don't read this shit: http://www.provigil....ribing_info.pdf



    SJS BLACK BOX WARNING FOR ONE!



    Look at the mechanism of action increases dopamine and histamine. Also 8%-10% of people taking provigil said fuck the drug during trials because of the side effects.



    It's also been "UPDATED" (And if by updated the drug companies knew it was addictive like they knew Ambien was) that modafinil might be addictive. http://www.ncbi.nlm....es/PMC3286657/. A drug that increases dopamine might be addictive (I don't know like Morphine) imagine that!



    Also the increased "wakefulness" might cause sleep debt which will in turn lower the immune system and cause adrenal fatigue (also mentioned as a post trial side effect).



    From said article:



    "In general, we believe that sleep helps to build the immune system. Sleep deprivation induces stress responses and impairs immune functions url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B15"]15[/url],[url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B16"]16[/url. However, reports for immunomodulating effects of modafinil for keeping wakefulness are quite limited. An investigation for immunomodulation effects of modafinil is a significant step in itself. The disruption of circadian rhythm and sleep control may influence the neuro-immune circuits url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B32"]32[/url],[url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B33"]33[/url. A waking drug may have effects on neuro-immune circuits. If someone, who is a non-narcoleptic patient, wants to use modafinil for waking, enhancing their cognition, or brightening his mood, they may already be under a high level of stress, like soldiers in a battle field. It is possible that modafinil seekers already face quite a stressful situation. Stress responses via the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis start from corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B58"]58[/url],[url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B59"]59[/url. The waking effect of modafinil is related to CRH url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B60"]60[/url. Modafinil cannot be excluded from investigation for immunomodulatory effects of stress. Serum C-reactive protein level, which indicates the inflammation level of an individual, was increased by a single dose of modafinil, while it reduced host resistance to Listeria monocytogenes infection url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286657/#B2"]2[/url."



    And this is all from what "they" are telling you and I, imagine what "they" aren't telling us.



    Just because I say something doesn't make it true. The same can be said of Dave. Research all this shit on your own, make your own conclusions.




    I thought people were more of the opinion that Modafinil works the best with intermittent usage? I'm not discrediting the side effects or touting this as a wonder drug either, but the results from the clinical trials were attained from patients taking this on a daily basis ( and not giving their body a rest).
  • Sorry going slightly off topic here, this isn't about Modafinil but the original post mentioned choline dominance and I haven't found any great information on this. What's the best way to tell if I'm choline dominant? I've been taking Onnit's Alpha Brain (I believe the main active ingredient is acetylcholine) for the past month or so and I have slightly more focus, generally clearer thoughts.



    I want to order some of Dave's Upgraded Brain (aniracetam) when it comes out but I've never tried aniracetam and was concerned by some of the posts that inferred potential negative effects of aniracetam on someone who is choline dominant. So...



    1) What's the best way to tell if someone is choline dominant.

    2) What are the potential negative affects of using aniracetam for a person who is choline dominant?

    3) Are there any synergistic or harmful effects of using aniracetam and Alpha Brain?



    Thanks All
  • bladeblade
    edited February 2013

    Sorry going slightly off topic here, this isn't about Modafinil but the original post mentioned choline dominance and I haven't found any great information on this. What's the best way to tell if I'm choline dominant? I've been taking Onnit's Alpha Brain (I believe the main active ingredient is acetylcholine) for the past month or so and I have slightly more focus, generally clearer thoughts.


    I want to order some of Dave's Upgraded Brain (aniracetam) when it comes out but I've never tried aniracetam and was concerned by some of the posts that inferred potential negative effects of aniracetam on someone who is choline dominant. So...


    1) What's the best way to tell if someone is choline dominant.

    2) What are the potential negative affects of using aniracetam for a person who is choline dominant?

    3) Are there any synergistic or harmful effects of using aniracetam and Alpha Brain?


    Thanks All


     


     


    Best thing to do is to try some. We all have different levels of chemicals in our bodies and act different to certain substances. You can get some at -  http://www.smartpowders.com/


     


    I'm waiting for mine to arrive, they're inexpensive


  • Thanks, Blade. What did you order from smart powders and how did you like it?


  • Are there any other answers on Aniracetam? Ron had good questions and just try it seems pricey and reckless. That said, I got over excited and booked myself a bottle already of upgraded brain, not knowing what kind of choline person i am. 


  • Funny story I went on a mustard binge eating everything at work with mustard. One of my older co-workers mentioned it's because of a deficiency of some kind, we google it and it was B6. I take a daily nootropic(Fast Brain 2.0) if not EOD depending on if I start getting too wound up. Now it all comes full circle, thanks for the info Ron Swanson.


  • edited May 2014


    By the way I don't "rant" I know my shit! I don't say anything that I can't back up.


    I know when people take drugs they don't read this shit: http://www.provigil....ribing_info.pdf


    SJS BLACK BOX WARNING FOR ONE!


    Look at the mechanism of action increases dopamine and histamine. Also 8%-10% of people taking provigil said fuck the drug during trials because of the side effects.


    It's also been "UPDATED" (And if by updated the drug companies knew it was addictive like they knew Ambien was) that modafinil might be addictive. http://www.ncbi.nlm....es/PMC3286657/. A drug that increases dopamine might be addictive (I don't know like Morphine) imagine that!


    Also the increased "wakefulness" might cause sleep debt which will in turn lower the immune system and cause adrenal fatigue (also mentioned as a post trial side effect).


    From said article:


    "In general, we believe that sleep helps to build the immune system. Sleep deprivation induces stress responses and impairs immune functions [15,16]. However, reports for immunomodulating effects of modafinil for keeping wakefulness are quite limited. An investigation for immunomodulation effects of modafinil is a significant step in itself. The disruption of circadian rhythm and sleep control may influence the neuro-immune circuits [32,33]. A waking drug may have effects on neuro-immune circuits. If someone, who is a non-narcoleptic patient, wants to use modafinil for waking, enhancing their cognition, or brightening his mood, they may already be under a high level of stress, like soldiers in a battle field. It is possible that modafinil seekers already face quite a stressful situation. Stress responses via the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis start from corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) [58,59]. The waking effect of modafinil is related to CRH [60]. Modafinil cannot be excluded from investigation for immunomodulatory effects of stress. Serum C-reactive protein level, which indicates the inflammation level of an individual, was increased by a single dose of modafinil, while it reduced host resistance to Listeria monocytogenes infection [2]."


    And this is all from what "they" are telling you and I, imagine what "they" aren't telling us.


    Just because I say something doesn't make it true. The same can be said of Dave. Research all this shit on your own, make your own conclusions.


     


     


     




    I couldnt agree more. Modafinil causes me huge side effect. I won't take it ever again. For me DHA, CDP Choline, ALCAR and piracetam are enough. Today I will try out sulbutiamine.


  • This is why n = 1 is so important. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. 


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