Quick Fasted (Resistance) Training Q's And Supplements

Hey all, I first want to thank everyone for all the input I have received through my other three posts, I appreciate it! My questions are about fasted state training, and how I can optimize it, as this has been a slight grey area in my growing amount of knowledge recently. Quick questions would be:


 


1) I typically do a BBS style resistance workout, as many times a week as I can physically and mentally handle (which happens to be 2-3x depending on stress, diet, sleep, and how much CT I get in); I'm going to cancel my gym membership, because, well their a scam. I plan on getting more weight plates and/or a barbell (only have dumbells), and a 54lb kettlebell. Do you think it would be possible to do one of the 4-Hour Body routines fasted, or BBS, or maybe a slight combination of both? I'm thinking kettlebell swings to failure, immediately followed by pull-ups to failure, immediately followed by squats to failure with dumbbells or a barbell, and a couple more exercises.


 


2) Do i NEED BCAA's before doing fasted training? I know Martin Berkhan recommends them, but I read an article (I will find it and post the link asap) from another fasting 'guru' who thinks that the amount of amino acids catabolized through truly fasted resistance training are miniscule to the physiological benefits you receive.


 


3) I know UCAN SuperStarch is used by Peter Attia because it doesn't break ketosis, could I possibly use that prior to fasted training without breaking the fast since insulin won't rise? Especially because resistance exercise diminishes insulin anyhow


 


4) I am going through all the podcasts and articles here and annotating them, creating a word file, and putting them in a journal (as I've been recently doing with every book/blog I read); Podcast #1 Andrew spoke about using Super Plasma Bovine throughout the day, does anyone have any experience with this? Is it worth it, it's not even too expensive?


 


5) What place would grass-fed collagen and/or paleo pemmican have in my training routine? As in, how would I time my consumption and at what dose?


 


6) Lastly, can someone please give me a decent description of what the differences are, and what kind of whey I should purchase between Upgraded Whey (or an organic non-denatured grass-fed whey), or hydrolized whey (often advocated by Kiefer)? What about Micellar Casein?


 


Here is the link to the site/provider of Super Plasma and other supplements: http://proteinfactory.com/shop/high-quality-protein/ ; as you all can see as well, grass-fed (I believe it is) Whey is cheap here - I just don't know how it would stack up against Upgraded Whey


 


Thanks in advance for any input!


http://equilibriohm.wordpress.com/

http://biohacksblog.com/

Natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability. - Marcus Aurelius 

Comments

  • I agree, I'll have to experiment and find what works best; will keep track of all lifts, how I look in the mirror, a journal, etc. But what about the supplements I'm not sure of (Super Plasma/Hydrolyzed Whey/UCAN SuperStarch)? Have any experience or knowledge on them?


     


    Thanks by the way.


    http://equilibriohm.wordpress.com/

    http://biohacksblog.com/

    Natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability. - Marcus Aurelius 

  • TJ JTJ J skratta pa klocka
    edited February 2013

    I'd like to see that article you mention about amino acids catabolized during fasted training. 


     


    I've been lifting at around 12, having had only upgraded coffee + MCT oil in the morning/pre workout. Then afterwards taking creatine, glutamine, carbs, whey shake. The MCT seems to be enough for me to have some of the biggest boosts in strength and changes in body composition I've ever had. 


     


    I'm interested in the super starch right now...am considering using it for partial fuel in cross country skiing. As I research these things I'll post relevant articles I come across.


  • M. ThomasM. Thomas A Stick of Butter a Day Keeps the Doctor Away.

    I would definitely follow Martin Berkhan's protocol on this one.  He is definitely the leading expert on such matters - so yes, definitely have BCAAs.


     


    As far as the whey I would definitely try to find some grass-fed whey derived from milk and not cheese. www.proteinfactory.com carries some stuff called "Pristine" that is decent.  Dave's protein is excellent as it is fortified with extra immune enhancing nutrients and I (I THINK) more IGF-1.  www.strongerfasterhealthier.com also carries a decent milk derived whey.


  • Aha! I found it! http://www.gulfcoastpersonaltrainingllc.com/why-supplementing-with-branched-chain-amino-acids-bcaa-pre-workout-will-be-detrimental-to-fasted-training/


    Apparently only 16 (with 70% max cardio, so maybe less with weights - but maybe more with a BBS style workout) grams of protein are lost in a truly fasted state according to this article.


     


    Thanks for your input; do you use Dave's Whey? What about the Super Plasma? I know I keep asking about that but I'm really intrigued after I heard it on the first podcast.


    http://equilibriohm.wordpress.com/

    http://biohacksblog.com/

    Natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability. - Marcus Aurelius 

  • https://www.marksdailyapple.com/superfoods-bcaas-and-fasted-training-hot-sauce/


    in this, Mark Sisson also says BCAA's turn off autophagy, which actually is quite obvious now that I think about it. In a way, I'm now intrigued to workout in a truly fasted state and just take in an extra 15-20g of protein.


    http://equilibriohm.wordpress.com/

    http://biohacksblog.com/

    Natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability. - Marcus Aurelius 

  • M. ThomasM. Thomas A Stick of Butter a Day Keeps the Doctor Away.

    I guess it depends on how hard you train while fasted.  I still have more faith in Martin Berkhan's method if you are truly trying to push your performance and results.  If your workouts are not all that strenuous and do not take a lot out of you than it might be best to train fully fasted.  The leangains protocol doesn't call for BP coffee in the AM either, so if you have that you probably arent even reaching the fasted state that Sisson and the other random blogger you cited are referring to.


  • Yeah I agree with the BP coffee - I've been doing it but not to the extent I wish (although I will be soon!); just having organic shade-grown coffee with stevia and kerrygold + organic virgin coconut oil (MCT Oil when I had it... went through it too quick I used around 3tbs a day lol). I would combine Carb Back-Loading with fasting, go about 14hrs with nothing but water, then consume coffe and/or tea with BP ingredients and extend it to 18hours.


     


    I guess my only questions I still have for anyone willing to help out is 1) What supplements would be wise - Leucine? Upgraded Whey? Collagen? Super Plasma?


    (2) Anyone with experience with 4-Hour Body routines? I remember reading a blog where someone combined them with BBS; they didn't get great results but they did it once a week MAX (often every 12-14 days), and didn't follow an optimal diet, along with so many other mistakes I can't even get started. (3) Is anyone familiar with Foundation Training? I wonder how the advanced routines would be fasted, I've been doing a basic one fasted the past week... and it does work up a sweat and activate your posterior chain extraordinarily well.


     


    For anyone interested, I think after I get a few more paychecks and next week have my first BJJ classes in awhile, I may start a forum post here or maybe MDA or something on fasted training improvements and affects on strength, body mass, performance, etc. I've gotten this idea from these posts:


    http://jackkruse.com/forum/showthread.php?297-Fasted-State-Training-Adaptations - Barry is an elite athlete and has his own website/blog/podcast/personal training, does some intense things fasted and in ketosis and his carb "re-feeds" are extremely small (40-80g from slow digesting sources every once and awhile)


    http://jackkruse.com/forum/showthread.php?2140-one-keto-adapting-athlete%27s-journey


    http://www.zentriathlon.com/ - there is a podcast here with Barry somewhere


    http://jackkruse.com/forum/showthread.php?5672-fat-burning-and-mitochondria/page2


    http://www.optimumnutrition4sport.com/ - this is Barry's website, although not a lot is on there right now


    http://equilibriohm.wordpress.com/

    http://biohacksblog.com/

    Natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability. - Marcus Aurelius 

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