Post Workout Nutrition

I've tried searching for this throughout the entire bulletproof site and community, but I can't seem to find any particular coherency when it comes to post workout nutrition. My question is this: what is the ultimimate post workout meal? I'm looking for measurements; how many grams etc. 


For some time I've been using regular whey protein and some dextrose for carbs, but I've been becoming increasingly bulletproof in 2013 and I'm feeling great, so I ordered some Upgraded Whey. If i were to take this after a workout, how many grams should I get, and what should I have for carbs? 


Would be great if someone could make this crystal clear. 


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Comments

  • M. ThomasM. Thomas A Stick of Butter a Day Keeps the Doctor Away.

    Thats a lot of protein.  What brand do you use again?  I know you stated it before but I forget.


  • suntouchersuntoucher Uninspired Potential ✭✭✭

    don't know how big you are, but 45g would suffice for the protein powder, dextrose is bulletproof so no need to change if you don't want, but keep it to 20g.  Mixing the dextrose with the protein is wrong, you want to drink the dextrose immediately after you train and then 20 minutes later have the protein and supplements, the reason for this is to not slow the uptake.  You could also use 1tbsp honey, 1/2cup white rice or sweet potato.  All of this does depend on what your training is.


    Personally I have 10g bcaa, 10g glutamine, 5g creatine, 30g protein before and 20g dextrose 5g creatine  then  10g bcaa, 10g glutamine, 5g creatine, 45g protein, and some other goodies that don't necessarily pertain (kale, ginger, greens powders etc)


     


    You are wasting all that creatine.

  • M. ThomasM. Thomas A Stick of Butter a Day Keeps the Doctor Away.

    Why do you think that?


  • So, I started the creatine protocol recommended by Keifer, "Dangerously Hardcore," who was on the podcast-- " 28g/day for me" which seems like a lot, but no "loading," as used to be recommende. Minor lower back muscle pull doing burpees on 2nd day of creatine. I almost never get muscle "pulls." Could it be partly attributable to creatine? Not blaming the protocol--- I have been training very hard, and I was a tad overtrained. Just wondering if the creatine increases chances of strains, or if I need other nutrients with the creatine. I know there is a lot of "stuff" on internet about creatine and strains-- but always assumed that was because guys were going up too fast in weights.


    May be my imagination, but I fell generally more sore and "tighter" on creatine, but hopefully cause I'm growing muscle!... tks


     


  • Thanks Jason-- I definitely pulled my lower back, not bad....sounds like I was not hydrated enough since I didn't increase fluids when I added the large amount of creatine... I just breath when I do burpees, wasn't trying any specific timing....? I was doing the gymnasticswod.com method where you push-up to a "cobra yoga" postion than pop the hips up... but that is how i always do them.... 


  • Thanks again Jason... Breathing-- interesting-- I am not that precise in my breath control during crossfit movements, although I am a martial artist and studied various facets of breathing. I also powerlifted, where I certainly did  the breath holding/valsalva during exertion phase. In AMRAPs, I find that I can do 1 breath/rep initially, but may have to increase Breath Rate as I fatigue. If I have to rest, I count breaths as measurement of rest time and try to develop a tempo.


     


    I have noticed that breath strategy has a big impact on overhead squats, due to stability and flexibility--- exhaling on way down improves my depth, alhough you lose some core stability..


     


    Will give this more thought... thanks.. wonder if there are any scholarly studies on exercise physiology and breath control--- obviously big for swimmers...


  • Jason, your split of dextrose and protein is interesting. Do you have any link to studies that have looked at this?


     


    Regarding post workout nutrition: make sure the total intake of leucine is 4g and your are ok (with some carbs and protein as well).


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  • Ok, I see your point.


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  • Jason, your split of dextrose and protein is interesting. Do you have any link to studies that have looked at this?

     

    Regarding post workout nutrition: make sure the total intake of leucine is 4g and your are ok (with some carbs and protein as well).




    Leucine is best taken alone , in BCAA form the other two aminos compete for transport lessening leucines effects.
  • Sweet potato powder about 20 Grams carbs (nice thing about this is it has more than carbs it has concentrated vitamins from the potato)  and 40 grams of Grass fed whey or Bio serum 1 Protein factory  (beef isolate) Awesome but expensive...


  • McTech0911McTech0911 RAW Grass Fed Protein Bars


    Mixing dextrose with protein will slow the absorption rate and lower the glycemic rating.

    No studies.




     


    Hey Jason on the topic of slowing absorbtion rates, does the fiber in Quest bars slow the protein digestion/absorbtion? How would you rate them for post workout nutrition (realizing theyre missing glutamine, creatine and BCAAS)? Would you add anything like maybe dextrose to increase the G.I?

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  • jUst picking up on this thread a bit late in the game but would love some clarification:


     


    Taking Leucine separately from BCAA's post workout?? Would one take BCAA's and then an additional 4 grams of Leucine ? Good brands of BCAA's?


     


    I've been taking Kre Alkalyn by Pure encapsulations. I'd need a lot of pills pre and post to get up to 5 grams. Can you recommend a good brand of powdered? 


     


    Good brands of L Glutamine? How important it it to get Japanese micronized ?


  • Thanks Jason  -


     


    Do you take Creatine  in a powdered form yourself or do you use the capsules of Kre Alkalyn? 


     


    Also, sounds like you recommend taking 4 grams of Leucine in addition to the BCAA's, am I right? 

  • Why would one avoid fat after a workout?


     


    Also, I find that when I take 20 grams of dextrose it takes me completely out of ketosis.  A bit surprised buy that...


  • Thanks Jason. Would something like D ribose work instead of dextrose? Looking for something less high glycemic.


    Perhaps a cup of berries in a smoothie?
  • Thanks for the advice Jason. On the separation of the dextrose and protein... I've been drinking 40gs dextrose with 30g wpc and a tablespoon of cacao powder immediately post workout. Is it worth separating that out? I'm worried the wpc shake will test like ass without the sweetness.


    Then two hours later I do another shake with four whole eggs another 40g of dextrose and the tablespoon of cacao with 20g collagen protein from grass fed gelatin. This is then finished at the tail end of the six hour post workout window with 200g of rice and steak/chixken/fish. How does that look to you? I weigh around 180 pounds. Any improvements?

  • No need to separate, seems fine, I would add some different protein in the second one and use the collagen as a supplement instead of a main item, but that's a minor detail. Are you making sure to get 1g/lb protein everyday?




    I Try to hit the 1g per pound a day from food sources but that's tough. So I'm introducing wpc to get me to the 180. Should I be using WPI immediately post workout instead of wpc. I thought the fat helps with making the protein more available to the body to use. I've asked this question on another thread here but I'm training fasted at noon/1pm with a BP coffee in the morning and pre workout. Is that a good strategy?
  • I also train fasted with only bulletproof coffee in the morning. I do a 1/2 hour of super slow around 11:30 AM. I've read the training fasted does really good things for your body.


    If I weigh 116 pounds, my question is do I actually need 116 g of protein? It's a huge amount for me and I can't imagine how I would actually get that all in. I can't do whey protein so I do a collagen shake post workout with 3 TBS collagen protein, 2 Tbs nut butter, 30 grams dextrose, 1 Tbs of MCT. I then have a late lunch with about 25 more grams of protein and then dinner with the same. All in all I'm not getting much more than 80 g of protein.


    I would love your thoughts both on the amount of protein I am getting and why i may need more, as well as the use of collagen is my pre-main protein post workout. It's hard for me to eat protein in whole food form right after a workout.


    Thanks so much for your help with all of this. Much appreciated!
  • kind of off on a tangent here, but i'm curious jason, do you think that it would actually make more sense to do the opposite of a protein fast if one were to be trying to lose fat? as in, instead of restricting protein for a day, eat nothing BUT protein for a day (or multiple days, or rest days in general).


     


    i'm thinking about shifting my focus from strength-building to fat-burning for a little while. i just read Eat Stop Eat  by Brad Pilon and was kind of thinking about incorporating some fasts into my week, or maybe going back to BP IFing, but i'm curious if you have any thoughts on what the most effective approach is. 


  • when you say 1g/lb, do you mean actual bodyweight, lean bodyweight, or desired bodyweight?


     


    with carbs, would you include the carbs from green veggies or just starchy veggies? would you subtract fiber? would you consider the 0.5 g/lb on rest days a minimum, a maximum, or just a general ball park? 


     


    what would you say qualifies as a "training day"? i would think BBS and sprint days, and probably for the more intense capoeira sessions, but is there any need to increase carbs on a day of say, a 45-minute hike with a lot of steep hills, an hour of power yoga,  or just doing some brief intermittent but somewhat intense things like passive hangs, bridges, air squats, lunges, etc. sporadically throughout the day? 


     


    any suggestions for fat quantities? i'm 150 lbs, probably 11-12% bf according to calipers, although it all seems to accumulate in the midsection, so not really wanting to lose much more than a few pounds really. is the idea to keep it as low as possible as long as mood/hunger/performance doesn't suffer?


  • Hi Jason


    Can you help me figure out my macronutrient proportions? At 117 lbs and 5'3, I actually have no idea how to figure that out, as I don't know approximately how many calories I should be aiming for per day.I'd like to keep a somewhat macronutrient ratio of not more than 20 % protein and low carb in the interest of being in ketosis at least some of the time. Wouldn't the amount of protein your suggesting take you out of ketosis?


    Also, wondering if Dave's collagen can count as a protein in my morning coffee or post workout shake?I hope so, as eating that much meat and fish each day feels practically unmanageable. Wish I could do whey, but can't. Any other suggestions for easy protein sources?


    You're the best. Thanks so much for all of your help. You've been great.
  • I do one day of super slow and one or two days of high intensity interval training on my elliptical for 20 minutes. The other days are rest or yoga or slow 30 minutes on elliptical. i'm not a heavy workout person,as you can tell. 


     


    I filled in my info on the calendar link you sent to me and it said I should only be getting about 1500 calories for a 3x/week workout.


    That seems like so little. Does that make sense to you? I've been getting closer to 1700-1800 calories. 


  • wow I'm so glad I came across this thread today, I've learned alot , thanx Jason for all of your feedback and advice !    


     


    My question to you is, are you good with either raw honey and/or  raw grassfed milk as an immediately-post-workout carb source ?  I'm referring to crossfit-type workouts or sprinting, hi-intensity intervals/tabatas , etc ... not slow cardio.   IF you are ok with the raw gf milk...would it be ok to throw a couple raw eggs in ? 


     


    Also, if you had to choose(one) between BCAA's,  glutamine , or creatine (choose due to budgetary constraints) , which one would you recommend ?  My goal is to maximize recovery, reduce muscle wasting, and maximize fat burning.    I do those workouts mentioned above a couple times a week plus maybe one slow cardio day and one day of standard bodybuilding with weights.   I follow a semi-BP diet .  I'm late 40's , 6-2" , 215 lbs, approx 12-15% bodyfat.  


     


    Thanx again Jason. :cool:  



  • Honey is 50% fructose so that's not so good, milk is slow digesting and you won't get good carbs from it.  BCAA




     


    ok thanx.    So what would be your fave post-workout carb source(s) ?


     


    And can you recommend a high-quality (regardless of price) BCAA supp ?   (one that mixes/dissolves well hopefully !)


     


    Thanx again. 

  • pd85pd85
    edited January 2015


    Honey is 50% fructose so that's not so good, milk is slow digesting and you won't get good carbs from it.  BCAA




     


    That's an odd recommendation considering how studied and proven creatine monohydrate is, especially when you factor in his goals. BCAAs are practically useless.


  • pd85pd85
    edited January 2015


    I believe he asked which one I'd choose, I make sure I never run out of bcaa, if I run out of creatine here and there I don't really care, but then again I train fasted so bcaa are pretty important.


    Now all we need is someone for a glutamine recommendation and the opinion circle can be complete.




     


    If he has a gut issue then I'm all over it!


     


    Also if I may answer his question, a years supply of creatine will run you about $40 which is quite the bang for your buck.




  • I get a good price on creatine and it's well over $100/ year, but still cheaper than bcaa's, but then again bcaa's are better because they build muscle ;)




     


    Optimum Nutrition Creatine Monohydrate 2000 grams is $40... that's 5g of creatine p/day for 400 days. 


     


    Or if you take 10g of creatine on workout days and workout 4 times per week, then it's about a year.



  • That's not fair, that's in the U.S. Though you just saved me a few bucks, didn't realize ON had just a huge tub, so thanks for that.




    BCAA.




     


    Didn't realize you were in Canada... supplements are brutally expensive up there sometimes! 

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