Bitcoin

I had never heard of Bitcoin until seeing it as a payment option at mymodafinil.net.  Being cautious with money, I decided to investigate a bit further before joining up.  I'll post the articles/videos I found and wondered if anyone here has any experience or opinion on this topic.  The views vary widely, but it has my interest nonetheless.  As with any topic, it is good to hear both sides to the story. (most of these are within 30 days)


 


http://lifehacker.com/5991523/what-is-bitcoin-and-what-can-i-do-with-it?utm_campaign=socialflow_lifehacker_facebook&utm_source=lifehacker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


 


https://coinbase.com/


 


http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-mine-bitcoins-2013-3?op=1


 


http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/03/29/digital-currency-bitcoin-surpasses-20-national-currencies-in-value/


 


http://www.bloomberg.com/video/bitcoin-the-anarchist-virtual-currency-12Je7jeKQZmn~Hx1YaNitQ.html


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi2WgeJ73IE


 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kEHIOi8iXqE


 


 


Seeing through the chaotic.
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Comments

  • RodRod The Rodfather

    I gotta buddy who is writing "mining" software so we will see. It's crazy though, great concept. How do you like it? 


    Everything I learned about "biohacking" has been baby steps to "circadian biology", that's where the real biohacking comes in. You can buy a bunch of cool shit to "hack" but if you don't have context, you're not winning. Paleo is just a brand now and too many have opinions, it's on you to read and reread the material to not only find truth but to connect the dots. Much love to everyone who has helped me on my journey for restoring my health, please keep in touch. Feel free to message me with health questions Consultwithrod@live.com 

  • OMG!  I was just going to come here and post about this.  I heard that Tom Woods interview on The Peter Schiff Show the day it aired.  Bitcoins were around $15 each at the beginning of the year, now they're approaching $100 each.  I posted an all data chart below.  I'm going to speculate and buys some soon.  I'm thinking a pull back is in order in April.  Prices may come back down in May, but expect them to take off again.  I think the temporary spike is due to the Cypress debacle.  I base these hunches on listening to and reading other news about bitcoins.  Question is, how do you buy them?  There are many answers to this question, but I suggest you get started now if you want a chance to buy them some day.  There are many steps to get the ball rolling and if you're not a computer programmer, it can be very confusing.


     


    Here are the steps I took (am taking):  from www.weusecoins.com


     


    1.)  Get a wallet.  This can be done many ways.  I suggest downloading the mac version here or the windows version here.  Once you download and install the program, it must be authenticated.  This can take hours, so start the process and do something else.


     


    2.)  Open a mtgox account at https://mtgox.com


    This can take a while because it will also need authentication.  But this authentication is done by humans.  You will need to scan copies of your ID and a utility bill or something to prove your residence.  This can take days.  


     


    3.)  Open a Dwolla account at https://www.dwolla.com


    This can also take time.  It's sort of like paypal.  You will need to add bank accounts and verify them.  They will also require your social security number so I assume it's only open to U.S. customers.


     


    You can avoid steps 2 and 3 if you want to buy bitcoins in cash.  You'll have to find someone who's selling bitcoins and meet with them, give them the cash, and they'll send the bitcoins to your wallet.  It's really that easy.  This is the best way to avoid fees and remain completely anonymous.  Also, you can buy bitcoins at a local store such as CVS or Walmart using https://www.bitinstant.com.  This part I do not completely understand as I have not attempted it yet.  But it is possible.  The drawback is more fees.  I'm sure there are fees with steps 2 & 3 above as well.


     


    So as you can see, this can get really confusing and complicated.  I'm still trying to fine tune my understanding of the whole process myself.  Apparently you can get free bitcoins by mining them yourself.  This is even more complicated and involves a bit of programming knowledge.  Read all you can and watch more videos.  I believe this will take off and become more streamlined as it evolves.  We are seeing a whole new industry being built before our eyes.  The possibilities are endless.  Do not ignore this opportunity.


     


    chart.png?width=940&m=mtgoxUSD&SubmitBut


  • OceanRayOceanRay
    edited April 2013

    I would not want to own more than a few BitCoins.


    Too hard for anyone, except computer/maths geniusess  to understand - maybe ok in the short term, (as medium of exchange), but totally implausible as a store of value. Spend your Bitcoins, but save in gold.


  • Hmmm ... It's near $100. Then again it is April 1st. 


  • Pierre EklundPierre Eklund pierre.eklund@gmail.com
    If you live in Cyprus you would probably consider bitcoin.
    Please email me instead of PM

    pierre.eklund@gmail.com
  • All the techie sources I have heard say nothing but good things about bitcoin.  It sounds like a viable currency that is not tied to any country.  The real issue is where do you spend it.  Although recently I heard that you can convert them and they are going up in value since inception.


  • The more I learn, the more the mainstream uses scare tactics, the more I like Bitcoin.  The buzz is still going.  Plan to buy enough to do a few transactions soon.  Free markets rule.


     


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OgxeB6ro_NI


    Seeing through the chaotic.
  • Joe E.Joe E.
    edited April 2013
    And if you guys are on the fence about buying bitcoins, open an mtgox account ASAP because it takes forever for them to verify it. You might as well get it verified.


    And if you like to gamble, why not roll the dice?
  • i have just started looking at the tor network and bitcoin, i am unsure about it it could go either way as in the words of gok wan: its all about the confidence lol


     


    what do people think about tor network?


    Continue Learning Always

    Mr F

    'The day will come when, after harnessing space, the winds, the tides and gravitation, we shall harness the energies of love. And on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, we shall have dscovered fire'
  • Re: Tor  :) 


     


    414px-M%C3%A5rten_Eskil_Winge_-_Tor%27s_


     


    I've had this site bookmarked for a while without following up due mainly to not investigating further.  I love the idea of more anonymity in a world where it is shrinking by the second.


     


    https://www.torproject.org/


     


    Confidence really is what drives most investments.


    Seeing through the chaotic.
  • Pierre EklundPierre Eklund pierre.eklund@gmail.com
    Blockchain.info seams popular as an online wallet, anyone use this?
    Please email me instead of PM

    pierre.eklund@gmail.com
  • Joe E.Joe E.
    edited April 2013

    Blockchain.info seems popular as an online wallet, anyone use this?


    I use blockchain. It works great!! What I really like about it is it'll automatically send back up emails for your wallet so you never lose it. That's a serious issue with Bitcoin (losing your wallet.) Print your bitcoin address and put it someplace safe. People have and are losing their wallets with Bitcoins in them. So this is an ever depreciating currency, the first one in human history. Sure, it's appreciating while it's being mined, but after ~2030 when all 21 million will be mined, it will depreciate by nature. Speaking of mining. I mined 0.00168520 BTC on my imac in one day.


    Oh, one drawback of blockchain. It's stored in a cloud and in theory, clouds can be hacked. It's highly unlikely, but if you're buying some serious bitcoins, use the bitcoin-Qt wallet I linked above. I use blockchain for fun stuff.
  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    What's stopping the creators of Bitcoin adding more coins for people to mine? It all has the same feel as scientology to me...


  • OceanRayOceanRay
    edited April 2013

    What's stopping the creators of Bitcoin adding more coins for people to mine? It all has the same feel as scientology to me...


     


     



    The Bitcoin algo ensures that there will only ever be 21 million (I think) created.


    But that's not where the risk is. First of all there is a huge a mount of speculative money going in, that money

    can flood out in an instant. 



    Second, as you note above, a crucial aspect of money is that it is finite/scare. F. eks;


    -- A finite amount of gold was created by nature. 


    -- US Dollars may only be created by the US government decree (hence 'Fiat' money). If you want to pay US taxes or

    import oil - you need to have dollars. Thus an artificial scarcity has to be maintained to keep faith in the currency. 

     

    Bitcoin's algo limits the amount of coins that can be created (artificial scarcity), but there are many new Bitcoin competitors with similar/better technology; Terracoin, PPCoin, Litecoin, Novacoin,Namecoin. The increasing popularity of these are a factor that could destroy Bitcoin in a very short space of time. 

     

    Bitcoin is a fun speculation, but there is a risk it could suddenly fail and go to zero, so it's an awful store of value. 

     

  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    I agree. I think it's a bit strange because it's all online. There is nothing tangible, it's a pure fiat currency. How can anyone trust the originators of it? Do people even know who they are? And why are they valuable? Even a Govt backed fiat currency has that particular economy behind it providing some kind of backing and value, even if the politicians are constantly manipulating things.


     


    Sure they say there is a limit based on complex algorithms, but you just have to change the code to allow more "money printing". How does anyone know there isn't a back door to the code? Conspiracy hat on, maybe some guy has created this Bitcoin system and now they're worth $100 each, he logs into his back door menu and just sells a few coins. No mining/solving required. Doing it just enough as not to flood the market too much, and just cream off a decent wad of money each time.


     


    It's just more of the same as far as I'm concerned. The speculation problem can happen with anything.


     


    Gold is restricted by it's physical existence, but even then I've heard rumours of there being 10 times as much physical metal out there as previously thought, which is totally possible seeing how it's been used as money for over 5,000 years.


  • Pierre EklundPierre Eklund pierre.eklund@gmail.com
    As long as people use the currency it has value, that includes dollars, if no one uses it its just paper.

    Even when it reaches its maximum of 21 million you can still use it. Its low in transaction fees, tax free and open source.
    Please email me instead of PM

    pierre.eklund@gmail.com
  • edited April 2013

    Plus they said they can divide each "coin" into 100,000 pieces if need be.  21 million x 100,000 = 2.1 trillion potential pieces.  


     


    Since going off of the gold standard, the only thing making currency anything more than a gentlemen's agreement is that it is backed by the court system with potential jail time for not paying your debts.  Remove that, and money is virtually just a convenient lie re: value.  Over 70% of currency is just zero's and ones anyway.  Digital bookkeeping.  


    Seeing through the chaotic.
  • OceanRayOceanRay
    edited April 2013

    As long as people use the currency it has value


     


     


    Hmm ... 


     


     


    zimbabwe-100-billion-dollars.jpg


    hyperinflation-1.jpg


  • I've heard rumours of there being 10 times as much physical metal out there as previously thought, which is totally possible seeing how it's been used as money for over 5,000 years.


     


     



    Do you have a source for this? My view is that the amount of physical gold (available for sale at some price) is very rigourously accounted for. If you are talking about "paper gold" (ETFs etc), yes there are many times (16 x? ) (100 x?) the amount of 'paper' ounces than there are physical ounces. When TSHTF, those trying to redeem will be left with worthless paper. 

  • Bitcoins are divisible by 8 decimal points.  0.00000001 is the smallest.  It's open source so the code cannot be changed or hacked.  It's complicated, ask any coder, it's real.  I tried to buy some today.  Mt. Gox is so backed up, they can't handle the transaction volume so the value you see today is actually lower than it should be.  All good comments above.  Bitcoin has out competed the other virtual currencies for a number of reasons, it's not going anywhere.  Mostly because of consumer confidence.   As soon as a government law is made somewhere backing the transactions, BTC will go through the roof, as if it hasn't already.  Buy a few now, &/or mine them as a speculation.  It's the future, I don't think you'll regret it.


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress


    Do you have a source for this? My view is that the amount of physical gold (available for sale at some price) is very rigourously accounted for. If you are talking about "paper gold" (ETFs etc), yes there are many times (16 x? ) (100 x?) the amount of 'paper' ounces than there are physical ounces. When TSHTF, those trying to redeem will be left with worthless paper. 


    =====


    I'll have to track it down but I'm pretty sure it was either Goldcore or Moneyweek.


     


    I totally agree with you on the paper gold, but it's physical metal I was referring to. If you think about how over thousands of years there have been a lot of societies all independently using gold as money or jewellery, then add all the wars, invasions, colonisation, etc. it is entirely possible that there is more gold than we know about sitting in a pyramid somewhere that nobody has found; or in a vault in Switzerland which was hidden by Nazis; or simply smart families that have been hoarding it for generations; or any other example you could imagine.


     


    Even the Fed has clouded their accounting by merging the actual gold held figure with the gold lent out figure on their public books. I think that the amount of gold available above ground is pretty well known and this is all just a rumour.


     


    I still think gold is the safest place to hold your wealth at the moment, everyone should own some.

  • Joe E.Joe E.
    edited April 2013
    Yes, own gold. Perth Mint in Australia will store it for you for free and the US gov can't touch it.


    So I tried to buy some BTC yesterday on the mtgox exchange. My Dwolla transaction did not go through, don't know why. Do I went to bitinstant.com and processed a purchase there. Everything went through, but the thing is, bitinstant uses the mtgox exchange so my BTCs are still not in my wallet. There's a bottleneck effect going on at mtgox. They can't handle the volume of orders they're getting. So that's why BTC keeps going up. I think as soon as the traffic is under control, we'll see a pull back. This is my guess, didn't hear it anywhere. Just makes sense. But that pullback may not happen for a couple weeks to months. Who knows? BTC could get to 1000 before it pulls back to 500. The world has never seen a decentralized currently before. It's going to be interesting.


    I'll let you guys know when my transaction goes through. Bought them around 10am EST April 9th. I wander if I'll get the market price then or when it's actually bought on mtgox.
  • Pierre EklundPierre Eklund pierre.eklund@gmail.com

    Hmm ...


    zimbabwe-100-billion-dollars.jpg
    hyperinflation-1.jpg




    Yeah, that's what trusting bankers and politicians do.
    Please email me instead of PM

    pierre.eklund@gmail.com
  • The 1st pullback is on.


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    Yes, own gold. Perth Mint in Australia will store it for you for free and the US gov can't touch it.


    So I tried to buy some BTC yesterday on the mtgox exchange. My Dwolla transaction did not go through, don't know why. Do I went to bitinstant.com and processed a purchase there. Everything went through, but the thing is, bitinstant uses the mtgox exchange so my BTCs are still not in my wallet. There's a bottleneck effect going on at mtgox. They can't handle the volume of orders they're getting. So that's why BTC keeps going up. I think as soon as the traffic is under control, we'll see a pull back. This is my guess, didn't hear it anywhere. Just makes sense. But that pullback may not happen for a couple weeks to months. Who knows? BTC could get to 1000 before it pulls back to 500. The world has never seen a decentralized currently before. It's going to be interesting.


    I'll let you guys know when my transaction goes through. Bought them around 10am EST April 9th. I wander if I'll get the market price then or when it's actually bought on mtgox.


    =====


    Perth Mint is a fine choice, but unless you are investing quite a bit of money, it can be best to buy the physical gold and store it somewhere. A 1kg bullion bar of 99.99% pure gold is around the same size as an iPhone and would currently store around $45,000!


    Even if you bought smaller bars, its only a small amount to hide somewhere and it is safer than Perth Mint (Australia already has a dormant gold confiscation law on the books that can be enacted at any time by parliament).

  • Australia already has a dormant gold confiscation law on the books that can be enacted at any time by parliament


     


     


    Joe;


     


    The Perth Mint is owned by the West Australia state govt. 


    Why do you find them more trustworthy that US govt?


     


    If/when USD devalues there will be capital controls. 


    How will you get the proceeds of selling your gold? Or do you intend to you take delivery?

  • Joe;


     


    The Perth Mint is owned by the West Australia state govt. 


    Why do you find them more trustworthy that US govt?


     


    If/when USD devalues there will be capital controls. 


    How will you get the proceeds of selling your gold? Or do you intend to you take delivery?


    It's a 2.2% markup over spot.  Cheap.  All I have to do is sign my certificate and they will send the gold, a check, or wire the money.  Or, I can go to Australia and get it. The idea is to have some type of security out of the reach of the feds.  They'll probably make owning gold at PM illegal someday.


     


    Also, MtGox is down.  Quote from their website:


    Trading is halted until 2013-04-12 02:00am UTC to allow the market to cooldown following the drop in price. Read more details on the support. Additionally trading fees will not be charged within 48 hours of trading resuming (until 2013-04-14 02:00am UTC).


     


    Very interesting.  Too much backlog.  Bitinstant is also backlogged because of this.  My money is stuck in cyperspace.  Like I said, it's like gambling.  My bro-in-law wants to go to the casino this weekend, I told him NO!!!  I already gambled this week.  LOL!  

  • ^it won't be as 'gambling' once it's been around longer.. btc's were like $10USD apiece last year, now they're well over a hundo last I heard.  As more 'regular' folk adopt them, and stuff like silk road become less dominant in keeping the currency afloat, they'll be far more predictable (of course, this is ignoring gov interference, and let's be real if btc's become a powerhouse, they'll be subject to intense scrutiny and 'nationalization'(quoted because i don't mean legit, transparent nationalization, but de facto)


     


    iirc, paypal's initial aim was to be a 'government-less currency', and that went nowhere once it got big.


  • edited April 2013

    Just a gut feeling, but Bitcoin may be here to stay.  More "faces" are entering the mix with the potential to legitimize and add trust.


     


    "Other champions of bitcoin also believe that it could mark a new chapter in the history of money.


     


    “Three eras of currency,” Chris Dixon, a partner at Andreesen Horowitz and well-known technology investor, recently wrote on a personal Web site. “Commodity based, e.g., gold; politically based, e.g., dollar; and math based, e.g., bitcoin.”


     


    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/big-investors-emerge-bitcoin-gets-191114595.html


     


    Then the hair stood up on the back of my neck when wondering if this is that "one world currency" that the "new world order" has been trying to establish for a long time.


    Seeing through the chaotic.
  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    Then the hair stood up on the back of my neck when wondering if this is that "one world currency" that the "new world order" has been trying to establish for a long time.


    =====


    I'd be more worried about electronic currencies in general, e.g. debit cards instead of cash. Once cash is dead, they can track everything, therefore tax everything, and devalue the currency without anyone being able to protect themselves. This is what I think Bitcoin could do since it is purely online.


     


    There have already been one world currencies for quite a while, gold or silver for starters. The British pound in the Empire's high point was used across most of the world. The USD is used for most things today like oil whether you want to use it or not. There is also talk of SDRs (Special Drawing Rights) being a new world currency which is based on a basket of the world's major currencies.


     


    In the end, people have the power to choose the currency they want to use.

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