Carbohydrates Before Training

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Comments

  • joeld123joeld123
    edited April 2013

    I've heard of this as the tool shed effect: if you start discussing diet and workout everyone has an opinion because everyone has done that, just like everyone has built a tool shed.  I would advise you to try one line of thought that sounds logical and has decent backing and try it out.  If it fails or doesn't give you the results abandon it and move on.  At the end of the day you have to look at results.  I for one have never messed with carbs before or after training and gotten ok results but am willing to give it a try as it sounds logical.


  • M. ThomasM. Thomas A Stick of Butter a Day Keeps the Doctor Away.
    edited April 2013
    Like Jason said, if you aren't calling upon your glycogen stores heavily in workout or doing hard amounts of heavy weight training to stimulate glut4 translocation, than you don't need carbs post workout or to backload.


    Chances are people here on the BP forums aren't working out even close to what Kiefer considers appropriate for carb backloading. http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/5012/book-excerpt-carb-back-loading-2/


    Insulin is responsible for more than just the uptake of glucose into the tissues. All nutrient transport is stimulated with an insulin spike, this is another reason you might want a relatively decent insulin spike pwo.



    As far as the fasted state training... certain kinds of weight training are only appropriate for fed state training. Fed state weight training should be much different than fasted state weight training. This is well understood. Therefore a blanket statement of no weight training during a fast is both true and false.
  • I do not believe in using simple carbs for an insulin spike post workout.  I do believe in complex carbs after a workout with protein. And for every research article you quote from there are others that say the opposite.  You do what works for you and I will do what works for me.  I eat differently when I train with weights than when I train on my bike or run. 


  • M. ThomasM. Thomas A Stick of Butter a Day Keeps the Doctor Away.
    edited April 2013

    I posted an article explaining the kind of workout John Kiefer's backloading protocol is designed for since someone was referring to it in a previous post.


     


    Otherwise, one should refer to the latest research in the pertinent areas to understand what is ideal PWO - you'll find no conflicts with what is ideal than.


  • L...



    As far as the fasted state training... certain kinds of weight training are only appropriate for fed state training. Fed state weight training should be much different than fasted state weight training.


     


    I would like for you to expand upon this statement.

  • M. ThomasM. Thomas A Stick of Butter a Day Keeps the Doctor Away.

    If you are trying to be optimal your fasted state training should be no more than an hour.  Doing long and slow cardio is probably far from optimal.  Its possible to accelerate fat loss by increasing your energy expenditure through the stimulation of increased catecholamine production, something that is already relatively high when you are past the 12 hour mark in your fast - These are the types of hormones related to fat burning and tissue catabolism.  The goal is to find a sweet spot for the fat loss without driving these effects up too hard.  Catecholamine production combined with low insulin levels is a good way to really target that deep visceral fat so if you are already pretty lean, deeply fasted state weight lifting can really help target hard to get fat.


     


    Of course, if you have a lot of weight to lose this sweet spot is probably much larger and the leaner you get the smaller it gets so your fasted training volume and timing becomes more and more delicate as far as being optimal for fat loss with muscle gain.


     


    This is what I have gathered from scouring through Martin Berkhan's resources and other stuff like Lyle McDonald's work.


  • If you are trying to be optimal your fasted state training should be no more than an hour.  Doing long and slow cardio is probably far from optimal.  Its possible to accelerate fat loss by increasing your energy expenditure through the stimulation of increased catecholamine production, something that is already relatively high when you are past the 12 hour mark in your fast - These are the types of hormones related to fat burning and tissue catabolism.  The goal is to find a sweet spot for the fat loss without driving these effects up too hard.  Catecholamine production combined with low insulin levels is a good way to really target that deep visceral fat so if you are already pretty lean, deeply fasted state weight lifting can really help target hard to get fat.


     


    Of course, if you have a lot of weight to lose this sweet spot is probably much larger and the leaner you get the smaller it gets so your fasted training volume and timing becomes more and more delicate as far as being optimal for fat loss with muscle gain.


     


    This is what I have gathered from scouring through Martin Berkhan's resources and other stuff like Lyle McDonald's work.


     


    I was curious as to what you meant specifically with "fed state" weight training. What kind is only appropriate for fed state?

  • M. ThomasM. Thomas A Stick of Butter a Day Keeps the Doctor Away.

    Oh, the actual training you mean?  Like what kind of training?


     


    I feel like the training program laid out by Dave based off of the body by science protocols is a perfect routine for fasted state training...


     


    Fed state training can be more along the lines of CrossFit workouts or much more strenuous higher volume regimes appropriate for hypertrophy.  (i.e. 6-12 reps, 10 sets for chest etc.)

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