Getting Back On Track After A Cheat Day..

Hey guys, any advice on getting back on track with intermittent fasting for weight loss after having a cheat day? If one has a proper cheat day with bad foods-ie not bulletproof foods, then are there any techniques for getting focused again?



Thanks heaps



Kittykat
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  • Do it sooner rather than later - don't ease back in. They best way to do this is to not go way overboard with the "cheat" (I prefer "refeed") in the first place.



    I used to follow a cyclical keto diet with 2 day carbups that seemed to drag into 2 week carbfests. So, here's how I deal with carb refeed or cheats now:
    • Plan ahead - Buy only the food for a refeed that is necessary and no more.
    • Start with a cheat meal, not a whole day.
    • Stay away from big trigger foods. These are the things that lead you down the dark path. For me it's ice cream or pasta. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    • For me, exercise gets me back into fat burning almost immediately after a refeed. I would recommend scheduling a workout as soon as possible after the refeed. The coffee seems to help as well.


    I'm sure others have great insight into this as well. Hope this helps!
  • kittykitty
    edited May 2012
    Yeah, I had a health scare last week and it triggered me into a whole new world of food that is just about as far from ideal as possible. I think i know my dark triggers. Bready stuff in general, but more so sweet stuff. eg cake. if it is a scone or english muffin then thats okay. especially coated in organic butter. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> but yeah i am definitely out of whack at the moment. Turned into a 4 day carbfest and i know that is really not good. Today and tomorrow just going back onto straight bulletproof diet, not intermittent fasting cause that is rather out of the question at the moment, and may provoke less control again.



    My plan to do for a while is taking the intermittent fast and turning it into a CKD diet because i will have no carbs during the week (except salad) and then have a refeed/cheat day. i do know i can get out of control if i just tell myself 'cheat day'.



    So the best thing is to decide beforehand and only do those things? I also read on a couple bodybuilding forums that the refeed day should have your lean mass in kg x10 or 12 to be the grams of carbs one will consume on that day. Is that too much or too little or just right or.......?????



    Thanks heaps,

    kittykat
  • kittykat -



    Sorry to hear about the health scare. Everything OK now?



    I certainly think planning is key to avoid the week long carbfest and the carb hangover. I'm assuming you are like most of us and gained fat from eating too many crappy carbs over the years.



    Finally, I came up with a system that works for me, my training and my goofy schedule. Seems to fit as I am dropping fat like crazy my lifts are all gaining...



    On Wed, I refeed and train in the early morning. On Sat, I train, then refeed in the evening. Both refeeds are essentially just long feasts always starting with protein and fiber, then the goodies. I usually shop for the refeed food by itself with a not-so-specific carb gram number, but a food volume in mind. A sweet potato and a banana or two seems to be plenty, which if you add it up is about 100-150g, or about 1/5 to 1/4 or total cals. Again, this seems to work for me in deference to my two goals of refeeding: Don't spillover, and continue strength gains. When I go nuts and try to add carbs...all kinds of trouble. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    If you want to get into your scones or english muffins and have a package's worth...Put them in the freezer. My girlfriend got off her daily bagel this way. She just takes 2 out for the weekend. But, I really think dieting is 80% what happens in your local store. I know I have nearly zero control over ice cream once it gets to my freezer. Could I carb up on ice cream? Sure, but overeating is nearly assured and thus spillover.



    The 10-12g/kg seems really high. Some quick calculation and I come up with ~640-750g. That's overkill for me and I would recommend starting lower and cleaner to start. Much easier to add than subtract...you don't get those carbs back! image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> I'd recommend starting with <250g to start and establish that as a baseline. Too much water gain, feel bloated, head foggy, etc? Cut back to 200g. Muscles don't feel pumped? Strength gains diminished? Go up to 300g. This is strict enough to measure the variables, but leaves room to tinker (and you know we all tinker). Stay clear of those trigger foods for a few weeks, then decide to add them in the mix or not. Depends on who you ask, but I'm not sure your body gives a damn where the sugar comes from as long as you don't binge.



    Are you doing this for fat loss, muscle gain, or body recomp?



    Good health!



    ~ Eric
  • kittykitty
    The health scare turned out to be hypothyroidism. So now theyve done tests and put me on drugs. goodie. We'll see how it goes. Certainly does make losing weight harder...



    Regarding my goals, well, I gained heaps of weight really quickly after having a car accident (dude opened his door into me on my bike)and another accident shortly before and dr put me on lame drugs that messed my systems up. Ended up eating way too much and gained heaps of fat. Like, heaps. I am now back at a gym and working on weights and interval training. I used to be the cardio obsessed type that would just go on an elliptical for hours... but i seem to have rather mesomorphic tendencies because i started doing some dumbbell lifting above my head and i ended up with biceps. (??!!) kind of frustrating if you are a girl who wants to lose weight. I seem to be changing my body composition, and not losing. Really annoying. I had and have gotten food advice from body builders from many years, but I was struggling a little with food and wasnt sure what to make of everything. I saw my friend reading this website on his pc so i looked it up myself... then did intermittent fasting and lost 2 kg in 4 days. I was sold. And its really similar to what my BB friends had been telling me for years. Ive gone and apologised for being dumb and not listening already. My friend always said 'fat doesnt make you fat' -completely contradictory to what my mother has said forever. So i was brought up with some weird stuff going on around food.



    All of that aside... I definitely put on a fair bit of fluid with this latest carb fest. Not good. I think you are definitely right in that I need to stay cleaner and smaller with carb days. And better if i call them carb days too. Not cheat days. That's asking for trouble. image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> We have bakeries and stuff around where i live, and if i am organised i can just get one or two things and then leave it at that? It would be so nice if i were in the states and could go get a corn dog or two...or 60. Its been years... (corn dog cravings..) oops. sorry. !!!!!!!!! I will definitely start smaller with carb ups now. I think i want to stick with the CKD then carb up cycle because I now (officially) have metabolic problems and I want to keep what i have left pumping. Going on VLCDs for long periods of time have already messed me up. Literally.



    So once I've run this mess of fluid and carby stuff out of my body, how do you reckon I should organise carb days? As i need them? Or scheduled? Like do i wait until i can feel the depletion badly enough to need it, or just do every sunday?



    Thanks heaps image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

    Kittykat
  • Kittykat -



    After reading your post, I'd say...it depends. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    First of all, glad you are OK. As for your mesomorphic tendencies...well, I sympathize. I have always been the short, bulky friend with the muscles, but can't see his abs. LOL. We can work around such things and body recomp is not the worst thing in the world. The first thing you need to drop is the calories in/calories out thinking. No cutting cals or cardio histrionics. You won't get anywhere trying to eat less, exercise more. Lottsa reasons for this and I've broken myself trying.



    Second, with the thyroid and metabolic issues, you are kind of in a holding pattern. Don't get frustrated. Stay off the scale except immediately before and/or after refeed. You're gonna get the weight off, but I think right now you want to focus on getting in balance. So, focus on BP foods and the standard BP diet solely for now. IF can come later.



    For a carb schedule...it does depend. Reading what you wrote, I recommend you eat lots of veggies with low carbs (broc, kale, cucumber, etc...) to total less than 30g carbs per day once you subtract fiber. Avoid all fruit and leave carb source BP foods (sweet potatoes, etc...) til Sunday's refeed. Do this Mon-Sat. On Sunday, stay on BP carbs for for at least a month...just eat more of them. I think it is better to get by on more good food than trying to restrict bad food to a carb gram count. After all, wasn't it overeating because of the bad things that got us in the mess in the first place? For a while, just calculate the carb grams you ate, not pre-plan the amount. This will tell you where your appetite is leading you. (If I eat clean, I don't get crazy it seems.)



    Now, here is where it gets funky: When you get to Wed afternoon/evening, decide whether you need a potato (~50-75g). This midweek mini-spike will really depend on your training schedule, mood and energy. If you are getting to Sunday feeling like a complete mess, well, you will do better with a spike...a well controlled spike. I doubt this will spill over and will only take you out of ketosis for half a day or so at most. You could also time a workout after the spike, which does two things: give you glycogen for the workout and put you back into ketosis post workout. Neat trick. Speaking of that, what does your workout plan look like? I really suggest the BBS plan for those that do NOT want to put on any appreciable mass. It's a sound routine and you get all the great effects of heavy training w/o bulking up. Just a thought. As an aside, more cardio generally just equals more carb cravings. That has been the case with so many people. So that's my answer to what to do if you feel depleted midweek. Hope this helps!



    ~ Eric





    PS - No corndogs! image/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />
  • kittykitty
    NOOOOOO CORNDOGS???!!! Cant get them down under anyway (well not anywhere ive seen anyway) I was a vegan for many years (5-6) and i have hilarious problems with meat digestion. Like grass fed beef, i love it. But it seems to stay in my stomach-just my stomach, not even into intestines- for 12 hours. Ridiculous. I find I can digest the less fatty kangaroo better. Tastes similar but I can handle it better. I was a distance runner a while ago -qualified for nationals in cross country- and did junior world champs in fencing two years in a row. All while being vegan and doing one handed pushups and one handed chinups and pistols holding 20kg etc. But then got sick and then accidents then weight gain etc. My body has had its cycles out of whack for at least 6 years. I'm sure youve heard of distance runners and VLCD diets. I was always taught with the counting calories stuff. Has messed me up so much. Ive found just sticking to plain BP over the past three days has helped me with dropping some fluid from last weeks carb fest. Been to the gym once. Hypothyroidism can make you feel REALLY tired. I also seem to have this godawful reaction to coconut oil. I feel nauseous and then have bowel probs afterwards. Really annoying. Not sure why. Although i read in one of daves articles that can be from mycotoxins and other things. SOB. Oh well. Ill get some organic butter instead. But yeah my bodys pretty confused with meat and fat. The dr thinks it will take a while to adjust.



    Because i gained weight so quickly, my joints arent in the best shape, so i do some but not heaps of weight training, then some intervals on the elliptical. Cant really do treadmill, and bike is boring. So its kinda like this at the gym:

    10 min hill intervals on highest level on elliptical

    Freestyle kicks x40-60 x3

    Flies x 6-7 x3 with the heaviest i can lift ( i go for high weight low reps)



    OR Lift dumbell above head x6-7 each arm x 3

    8-10 pushups elevated x 3



    I do the whole cycle- including intervals about four times. More or less depending on how i feel.



    I will elevate to more weights when i have more joint strength, and then when i have dropped a fair bit, I will run. I will not do too long distance, and will try to do more explosive bits when i run too.



    Im trying to learn how to train smarter. Its not easy. I was a cardio addict not too long ago. so yeah..



    I find that having some dark chocolate (lindt 85%) each night keeps any strange cravings in check. Mind you, i have been ignoring my body signals out right for a very long time. So its very confusing to try to get myself to listen now. Especially when i dont know what im looking for!



    Thanks again so much for your help,



    Kittykat
  • Lindt 85%!?! You are speaking my language! From all your saying, we have one confused, beat up body here. Sorry about the meat and coco oil digestion, but I really think they just take time like your doctor said. Slow and steady are your watch words. I had digestive problems early on, but they pass. Now, I struggle to eat enough at times. Just like you have that runner's mentality, I have a powerlifter's - when your not lifting, you better be eating!



    If I added correctly, you are still doing 40 minutes on the elliptical. That's a lot for hard intervals, but I like that you are on the elliptical for joint health. Maybe three intervals would be better right now. I just think your body is fighting to hang on right now and less is definitely more. Maybe some more balance by throwing in a pull? Close-grip pulldowns or DB Rows would balance out the upper body work. Other than that, sounds like you have a good grasp of what you are doing. Just resist that distance runner's urge to throttle yourself with volume. 30-minute workouts, done twice per week, are plenty. If you can't resist, do three 20-minute workouts. So maybe:



    Elliptical - 8 minutes w/ HIIT x3

    Overhead DB Press - 6-8x3

    Pulldown - 8-10x3

    Pushup - 8-10x3

    Again, don't get caught in the thermodynamic washing machine. Also, have you looked into foam rolling? May help those aches and pains.



    OK, I'm done nitpicking. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Just be careful with the cardio nuttiness...and pass the chocolate. image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
  • kittykitty
    Yeah.. foam rolling.. oooooh the pain... my itb and anything that a roller touches is like death. Maybe that indicates the need for a roller. image/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Yeah body is not happy in terms of signalling and feeling stuff. But I am determined to make it better. I will definitely do less on the elliptical. I am a gym junkie despite being overweight. I feel better about myself after i do a gym session. But the BP diet really can help if i lessen the exercise length and amount and just let my body do its thing? It needs to realise its okay to drop some fat. Its been pretty freaked for a while. So its fair enough that i end up with some problems i guess. I just gotta get it back into a powerful athletic state again. If I had done a smarter sport like powerlifting where i didnt have to be thin to do well like in running, i likely would have been a bit better with food stuff. Do you have to cut to a comp weight in powerlifting? Ive read and heard so much about female bodybuilders and metabolic damage from all the cutting theyve had to do..



    I love the lindt 85%, in aus we also have a brand that is organic that does 85% too and is amazing. I tried 100% cocoa choc from peru and i couldnt handle it. WAY out of my league...



    kittykat
  • Ah, welcome fellow gym rat! image/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />



    I'm down to 172 from 180, but I'm trying to compete at 165. This requires maintaining strength (pointless otherwise) and getting "comfy" around 164-166. I've always kinda settled at 174-5 and sabotage diets (hello Ben and Jerry!) when I feel I'm losing muscle and panic.



    I think you will be fine in a couple of weeks on the BP diet. Til then, just follow the rules (can't believe I just wrote that!) of the BP diet straight up.



    Oh, I just got back from the store and have some Lindt 90% calling me. image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
  • kittykitty
    Yeah I really enjoy the BP diet. Its so contradictory to stuff i have known from the past. But its really awesome. Ive heard so many stories about cutting and stuff. I have a female figure athlete friend. I have seen her cut to ridiculously low BF%s from what one would call normal in a rather short period of time. I do know that body building and powerlifting are WAY different in terms of so many things. But i havent known very many powerlifters so the CKD diet stuff i know and what ive heard about cutting has all been from them. The fitness of powerlifters in terms of 'functional' strength is so different in my opinion. Like, you lift so much mass, and they do heaps of stuff to look good on stage, but powerlifters train to be able to DO stuff. For example, in an end of the world scenario, powerlifters would be more ready to move and throw big or heavy objects, where it might take bodybuilders a bit longer to figure that out. Is that sort of a good interpretation? From an idiot runner (who would just make really scary bruce lee sounds and then run) image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



    Do you find that you can eat WAY more when you have much higher fat in your diet?



    In my experience, I can eat a large amount of protein and fat and be okay-lets say 2500 calories, but if i eat heaps of fat and less protein-lets say 3000 calories, i find i will just burn hot like crazy for the next 6 hours or so, and weight gain wont happen. Whereas with 2000 cal with carbs in there, the more carbs, the more gain. Really demented.



    Do you find your body burns one of the macronutrients really hard preferentially?



    We cant get 90% anything unless we go to the official lindt store here!!!! Unfair..sob... image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    Kittykat
  • That was the funniest post I've read in a long time. I needed that. Thanks. image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    I think powerlifting has become as ridiculous as bodybuilding in some ways. Guys are so geared up (shirts, suits, wraps...) and geared up ("special vitamins"), it's hard to know who is strong. I prefer the strongmen competitors, but I use powerlifting as my base for training and compete once in every blue moon. In truth, I am a power-strongman-bodybuilder in that order. If you want someone to look like nice furniture, get the latest Men's Health cover model. If you want to move said furniture, you call me. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> That said, I too would make Bruce Lee noises and run in the face of aliens or zombies. So really, I'm not trying to temporarily "cut", just trying to get to a more athletic version of me @165lbs.



    Yes. Yes, I do find I can eat much more on a high-fat diet. Last night's "feast" was a pound of beef, 6 egg omelet and a salad. Then, 2 squares of chocolate and a spoon of almond butter at bedtime. Woke up this morning feeling tight and lean at 172 again. So, yes, there seems to be something to the effect of giving your body fat to get it to feed on fat. This makes sense to me if you look at metabolic shifting that happens between being ketone burning and glucose burning, The high fat diet simply promotes lipolysis. Throw in the protein sparing effect of ketones and there is probably no need for the mega protein dietary schedule lifters follow. Just a thought. The old-time bodybuilders would live off meat, eggs and cream and do this for months to cut. It's definitely doable. I myself have been questioning what a "balanced diet" is for months now considering I am much happier and healthier on a near zero carb protocol.



    So, if my body wants fat to burn fat, why argue? I think it is convention. I've been brainwashed for years to think it takes a ton of carbs to feed a powerlifter - not true. 0.5-1.0g/kg lean mass/day does just fine.



    ~ Eric
  • kittykitty
    Well, Im attempting to learn some martial art stuff. Wont quite look like bruce lee cause hes FREAKY. oh yeah. and im a girl. DUH. Anyway. yeah. If we were in an end of the world scenario, i would likely try to contact arnie and see if he was up to terminating anyone... image/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />



    Mens health mag models are a bit wimpy for me. when i was really fit years ago, I seemed to scare men away. they didnt want to get me. I guess a 18yo with an 8 pack that can do one handed pushups is scary? I wouldnt know. I was like 90lb. Likely slightly too lean. Im looking at around 110lb as my goal now. But the way its looking at the moment, my body just keeps putting muscle on and maybe losing a small amount of fat but not much. so scale isnt changing particularly, but ill end up like 132lb and 10% bf and ill still think im fat lol. OH well. Stupid scales. I am trying to avoid them cause they are lying (add something rude here).



    It was funny cause yesterday as an experiment I had raw nuts and organic butter and coco oil (minimally on the coco obviously) and had one vaguely counted calories (out of habit) then the total would have been too high, but i dropped 1kg. That could be from heaps of different factors, but that tells me that my body really does like fat. Although I am starting to feel really depleted (eg going up the stairs is tiring), but i dont want to have a carb up until I am back to the weight i was before I did my last weeks carb fest. sob.



    I want to try to start lifting more at some point but i really need to get my core into shape. I have never lifted much, just done more body weight stuff. And for a while nothing. So am trying really hard to build that up at the moment. Im assuming your core strength is either something you built up ages ago and dont need to do anything to maintain except lift what you do, or you just a little stuff very occasionally to make sure its good?



    Heres one that anyone who has hanged with body builders may ask, what kind of powder have you taken in the past? We get quite a few in aus, but no where NEAR what there is in the states. When i was having them i refused to have anything but american stuff. Australian stuff is really like unevolved. Oh, i did use CNP professional too.



    Personally, I would say my current 'protein supplement' would be...... 85% chocolate..... best brand ever.... image/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />



    kittykat
  • You need to avoid scales at all costs.



    You are not fat!



    Quit running so much!



    Lift over head. Lift over head. Lift over head. You want abs? Lift over head.



    Use Designer Whey. Cheap and good. Bland though.



    Want a great body? DB Deadlifts, Dips, Chins, Overhead Press.
  • kittykitty
    Ah. Okay. so you think i should try...lifting over head? Not sure i go that.. image/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />



    My fat % would argue with any statement regarding my fatness. But when i am not fat I will certainly let you know. image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



    Scales are pretty awful indeed yes. Agreed.



    Do you have any advice on lifting posture? like should one tuck ones pelvis in or something? I have been getting lower back and external oblique pain (just over the hips)...



    kittykat
  • 'kitty' wrote:




    Do you have any advice on lifting posture? like should one tuck ones pelvis in or something? I have been getting lower back and external oblique pain (just over the hips)...



    kittykat




    For everything there is to know about excellent lifting technique, look to Dan John. Google for his videos on YouTube and become master of overhead squat. image/icon_e_smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />
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