Cycling And Diet

I have been bulletproof for 2 and a half months.



Weight is coming down nicely with no to little exercise. (max 1 cardio and 1 weight training per week max 30 min each)



This week started Dave's Rapid fat loss protocol. (Bulletproof coffee and limiting meals to between 2pm and 8pm)



I am interested in Prof Tim Noakes Central Govenor Theory and how my brain will affect my performance on an upcoming social ride from Cape Town to Knysna (+- 4 days at 170km per day - easy pace)





Will my body burn fat and not need carbs for energy (at a low intensity) so that I can stick to the bulletproof diet?



Anyone got any experience with this or shall I be the guinea pig?

Comments

  • Richard -

    I see no reason, given the ride you describe (low intensity, little lactic acid removal...), why you would struggle at all using a high fat diet like BP. I'm a weightlifter, so I specifically time carbs, but when I do any endurance work I don't notice anything but good energy. I, too am interested in Noakes theory, so let me know how the ride goes.



    Thanks
  • 'Richard' wrote:


    I have been bulletproof for 2 and a half months.



    Weight is coming down nicely with no to little exercise. (max 1 cardio and 1 weight training per week max 30 min each)



    This week started Dave's Rapid fat loss protocol. (Bulletproof coffee and limiting meals to between 2pm and 8pm)



    I am interested in Prof Tim Noakes Central Govenor Theory and how my brain will affect my performance on an upcoming social ride from Cape Town to Knysna (+- 4 days at 170km per day - easy pace)





    Will my body burn fat and not need carbs for energy (at a low intensity) so that I can stick to the bulletproof diet?



    Anyone got any experience with this or shall I be the guinea pig?




    Sorry for the interjection, but something you said jumped out at me - Dave's rapid fat loss protocol, if I read it correctly, has you eating NOTHING for 5 or 6 days, only drinking BP coffee. Then you refeed with real food and good carbs, and start over. I didn't think there was a "2-8pm" eating window, at least not on that specific protocol.



    Ok then, on to your Noakes question. I am a long-time central governor theory (CGT) investigator, so I think I can answer. If it is low intensity, then the central governor will NOT come into play at all. GCT really gets called upon in times of "red line" physical exertion, whether that is from an all-out 400m sprint well above your VO2 Max or from a marathon over 3 hours at 90% MHR. It will rear its head when you are putting your body NEAR duress but not quite there. In a very long ride I can only see CGT coming into play if conditions were dire, like insane heat and/or dehydration.



    The other part of your question is about burning fat which given how long you've been on the BP diet you should be fine. If you have a worry about maybe, possibly, bonking.... steam a sweet potato, then peel it and put it in a ziploc bag, then smush it up with some MCT oil until it is squishy. Stash it on your bike. If you need it, it's there.



    Have fun!
  • I'll second what Andrea said, but also add that you should be careful not to spike yourself into the red-zone during the ride; meaning, you still have to take it easy on the hills. Once you start lighting matches with high-intensity, high-HR work (a sprint), you're going to switch into glucose burning and wipe out your stores, which could push you into the CGT world; could is the key word, you may be fine...or you may bonk bigtime and have a hard time getting back into a comfortable low-intensity world. If you keep it low-intensity though the whole time, you're probably fine going high-fat to fuel it. A long cycle is no different than a long walk or a long hike...or a persistence hunt... Especially if you've been training your body for it and believe in yourself ;)
  • edited May 2012
    Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it.



    I did a 45min spinning class today, felt absolutly fine, will followup with a 3 hour low intensity ride tomorrow morning.



    It will be interesting to see how things go as I add or subtract intensity. Food for today was as follows (same for the last week).



    BP coffee in the morning (after spinning class today)

    200g steak with 6 cherry tomatoes and cup of raw spinach (around 2 pm) (salad and veggies vary from day to day)

    1/2 chicken grilled with skin on in a lemon and butter sauce from Nandos (around 4pm)

    400g steak with nothing else for supper (around 8pm)
  • Sound like you have it going, bro'. Try a whey shake post workout for recovery maybe?



    20g whey protein

    2 eggs (whole)

    1/4 cup cream

    2 tbsp MCT

    20g dark chocolate

    1 tsp cinnamon

    Water to thickness

    Blend and enjoy.



    Try it and see how the muscles feel. :D
  • So you do whole raw eggs, not just the yolks? I'm using pastured organic eggs... Did yolks yesterday and damn was that one tasty smoothie!!
  • Dan - It is a tasty shake, isn't it? I use the pastured organic eggs for my shakes. And yes, I use the whole egg. These shakes are what i use post workout (around 8am), then fast til 2-3pm. I've never noticed any swoon in energy or hunger using these.
  • That looks awesome, I will definitely give it a try.



    Cheers


  • Dan - It is a tasty shake, isn't it? I use the pastured organic eggs for my shakes. And yes, I use the whole egg. These shakes are what i use post workout (around 8am), then fast til 2-3pm. I've never noticed any swoon in energy or hunger using these.




    So, I read on PaleoHacks today that using the whites cancels out the biotin delivery from the egg-yolk...which doesn't really matter for me since the BP diet probably nets me plenty of biotin anyway, but my wife is getting close to being ready to think about getting preggers (how's that for hedging?)...and biotin is a big good one for prenatal development...so I'm hoping she'll let me sneak some raw yolks into her smoothies here and there...in fact, I'm ordering an ice-cream machine from amazon soon to start sneaking some in there :)



    Going OT a bit...



    My diet today:



    L-Glutamine - 10g at 7:00a

    BP Coffee - 1T MCT, ~2T Butter, 1/4 cup coco milk at 7:45a

    BP Macha - ~2T Butter at 11:45a (had a meeting and needed something to pull me through)

    Yolk smoothie - 1/2 cup coco milk, 1T chia seeds, 2 yolks, 2 servings of whey at 2:45p



    Feeling pretty awesome currently and ready for an evening workout followed by steak and a steamed brocolli/butter soup for dins.
  • edited August 2013

    Thanks Bulletproof intern, I hear you. I definitely was NOT planning on keeping up the rapid fat loss thing, actually as from the 1 June I have been trainning every day and eating normal BP.

    Actually did 42km ride with a steady climb in the middle yesterday and felt pretty good. Spinning classes have also been great, no prblems there. And occasional weight training thrown in for good measure.


    Interested to try a longer ride now but was wondering if I could just take raw almonds with me to substitute the energy bars from before my Bulletproof days.


  • Richard: You might find this - http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2012/04/exercise-on-low-carbohydrate-diet/



    and Peter Attia's "War on Insulin" blog pretty interesting.



    I certainly did.



    He makes some great statements in there about the difference between Ironman (or I think he'd say for your type of ride too) where you are self-paced and can dole out consistent energy over time vs. a Tour de France type ride where you have to respond to attacks and give bursts of maximal energy over and over. In the first, you can do it in ketosis and maybe even perform better that way; in the second, you absolutely must have carbs/glycogen-replenishment to keep you going.



    I'm not sure if you have time to further train yourself to be in and function on a ketosis diet, but it may be worth a shot for you down the road.



    On your longer ride, what about taking an avocado and a couple hardboiled eggs rolled in salt?
  • Great thread!



    I dont really have any advice for OP, sorry, but I do have a couple of thoughts.



    1. How would using cycling as a primary means of transportation (10-50 and rarely 80 miles a day) impact the BP diet? Would I want to do specific things around rides to preserve muscle?



    2. Awesome whey shake recipe, going to try TODAY!
  • Dusty-



    I don't see any reason your cycling wouldn't be BP as long as you are trying to keep your effort in the lower HR zones. If you are exerting roughly the same amount of effort as a brisk walk, then getting in 1-2 hours/day of movement should be fine and should be fat-fueled for the most part; especially if you do very-low-carb on the BP diet, depending on your overall goals.



    If you are concerned about the performance aspects, you could read "The Art and Science of Low Carb Athletic Performance"; the key is to mix the macro-nutrient recommendations with the BP diet clean-eating program so you get the best of both worlds; or add in quality starches as Dave recommends if you want more carbs or do better with a moderate carb diet.



    Muscle wastage shouldn't be an issue if you aren't going into anaerboic HR zones while not being keto-adapted...but if you are a sugar-burner and then are eating a moderate carb diet and doing long rides, your body may not be adapted to accessing fat stores and may start to catabolize muscle instead to convert to glycogen to replicate the sugar it's used to getting.



    Glad you like the shake recipe...it's a ton of good fat packed into a tidy glass of deliciousness.
  • Thanks Dan!



    I generally try to keep it at a moderate pace, but there are times when I have to make my 30 minute ride to work in 20. Fun, but might not be the best for maintaining optimal health and performance in my other athletic pursuits (MMA.)
  • Ah, you meant minutes, not miles. I thought 80 miles a day might be a bit much. :-)


  • Thanks Dan!



    I generally try to keep it at a moderate pace, but there are times when I have to make my 30 minute ride to work in 20. Fun, but might not be the best for maintaining optimal health and performance in my other athletic pursuits (MMA.)




    Oops, I mis-read that as miles too...was gonna give you some serious props for putting in that much bike commuting ;)



    In the case of doing 20-30min of riding then, I think you're fine no matter what, even if you did intervals or hill-repeats on the way to work. You shouldn't burn through glycogen stores in that amount of time to the extent that you'd be catabolizing muscle.



    But - you may want to watch out for that strange liminal zone where you could eat low-enough-carb not to replenish your glycogen (60-150g/day), but not low-enough-carb to become keto-adapted (0-50g/day). If you're feeling tired all the time and hungry, you may be in the former...meaning you either have to cut out the intense exercise, increase the carbs and maintain the exercise, or drop the carbs low enough to stay in nutritional ketosis and maintain the exercise.



    Much more info on all this can be found in the references above or at bengreenfield's site...again, you'll get the best overall results (I think) if you apply the BP way of eating to the athletic performance plan for low-carbs by doing them in tandem...vs. just eating any old meat/fat to stay in ketosis.
  • Hey Dusty,



    Tim Noakes says he is fine with training days doing up to 21km runs on no more than 70g of carbs (couple of rye vitas) for breakfast, very keen for him to publish more information / a book on the subject in the future.



    Dan, thanks again for input!
  • Wow. The difference between 100-ish carbs and <50 is staggering. Way more than twice as hard.



    How many nutritional strategies have one saying that they "caved" and had carrots?? FYI I am making the effort to go keto-adapted for two races I have this summer. I'm plowing through the Phinney/Volek book(s).



    At least there's a grassfed steak in my fridge. Yay for zero-carb dinner. Heh. :-)
  • I've been aiming to stay under 40g C this past week and have been pretty successful so far. The hard ones for me are coconut milk, any dairy, and even green vegetables or eggs. Every little bit adds up and next thing you know you're pushing the higher end of it. I have much more to learn and experiment with though... I've been using FitDay.com to track. And I generally aim for that number as net-carbs, stripping out the fiber; and I may even try cutting the carbs for dairy in half according to the lactase equation. But still, I think if I aim for 40g either way, I'll be sure to stay fully ketotic.



    It's really not that hard, you just have to give up a large percentage of foods and be really strict about it.



    I started my 5-HTP / Tyrosine experiment today too -- Dr. Julia Ross hat-tip on that one.



    Might follow shortly with a Bioletics cortisol, testosterone panel too.



    I really like the Phinney/Volek athletic performance book too. Along with everything from Peter Attia...it's been awesome...and I think is working well for me so far.
  • Yeah, 70 today thanks to "too much" kale (!!!) and some dark chocolate among other things.



    BUT, it is also helping me to keep protein lower than the last several years, aiming for .75-ish grams per lb of LBM, instead of the 1.2+ I was doing. I know from experience I convert every morsel of protein to carb when I get close to keto, so my fat % needs to be really high.
  • Started out strong.



    Then felt really nauseous - Note to Self: never eat Gardein on an empty stomach and then go for a bike ride. I’ve got a headache now.



    Then we turned around to come back home and took a different route. We passed a cemetery that I didn’t even know about and I stopped in and looked around at the different graves. I don’t know why, but I like reading tombstones. It’s interesting to read how old the person was, and what year they were born/died and reading what the families have had written. I don’t know why. I’m even more intrigued, but deeply saddened, when I come across the graves of young people, especially of children and babies.



    And then, on our way back, we went allll the way around this huge roundabout to catch our exit, and people were so nice and let us go.
  • edited July 2012
    Hey everyone, listening to the last tim noakes interview here



    http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/the-llvlc-show-episode-588-south-african-running-legend-tim-noakes-embraces-high-fat-low-carb-living/14565



    it seems carbs are NOT necessary for endurance athletes. Seems like we can adapt to creating all the glucose we need for exercise through our liver, and in the interview Tim mentions an number of World class athletes specifically iron man winners that are completely training and racing WITHOUT carbs, and have been for years. oscar chalupsky being a very interesting case as well.



    The nice thing about this is that he is not just talking about some test / trial being run, he is the one doing the testing. Cutting edge science.



    I've really started focussing on this now and would like to bounce some ideas off everyone.



    Cheers guys and gals
  • edited September 2012
    I feel like i am fat adapted now, been pretty good with low carb eating. Last weekend we (friends and I) headed out to Paarl (Town about 110km away), easy training ride 4H30 in 33 deg celcius temp, ate two boiled eggs, cheese and two pieces of beef sausage for breakfast, ate nothing on the ride, drank only water 750ml (200ml per hour) and felt fine, during the day after the ride i drank to thirst and went through about 2.5 liters.



    The next day (Sunday) we rode back clocking up another 94km, similar conditions and same food, I did eat 4 pieces of fatty dried beef sausage (Droewors in South Africa) on the ride. Drank similar water.



    I guess the point is my blood sugar was good though out definitely didn't hit any walls, and drinking to thirst meant re-hydrating could wait (mostly) until the end.



    I found it amusing how everyone else needed to eat constantly and drinking coke and energy drinks. I am the most unfit of the team/friends at the moment, but I am changing that.



    I am starting to get fitter so am interested to see how my body keeps going. The ultimate aim is to complete a 200km race in November (Called the Double Century).



    I'll use this blog as an informal diary. See how it goes.



    Cheers
  • [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Well, I did the One Tonner today, 156km, no breakfast, Water only (3 bottles) finished 5H30 (40min improvement over last year). I felt good the whole ride, no dips in energy. I checked blood glucose after ride 3.5mM (Medics were happy to help), I wasn't hungry until late afternoon, Once adapted, hunger falls away.[/font]
  • Coronation Double Century this weekend coming. 200km Team Time Trial.

    I have been LCHF strictly since July, I am now Leaner than I have been in 6 years, stronger than I have been in 6 years. To qualify that the last time I felt this good on a bike was in 2006 when I was cycling 3 hours a day Tuesday - Friday then 5 -6 hours Saturday and Sunday. Now I can maintain my wait without exercise and when I do exercise I can go for hours with nothing but water and I finish as strong as I started, Typical Sunday ride will be 100 - 140km with anywhere up to 2000m climbing. So let's see how this race goes this weekend.
  • http://www.generationucan.co.uk/storepage2230357.aspx


     


    Great supplement for endurance/cycling. anyone tried it? 


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