Oxidized fats

What are the actual cognitive and physical impacts of consuming oxidized fats? I read the blog religiously and i don't think this has been covered, although i have heard Dave say he can see his kids' behavior change when they consume oxidized fats.



The bulletproof diet pdf has a great bar chart of unhealthy polyunsaturated fats, and notes that "Pork, duck, goose, chicken, and turkey are all relatively high in polyunsaturated fats. These meats must also be cooked to well done. This is why grass-fed beef and lamb are better choices." Does the chart assume a consistent level of cooking across all types of meat, or for example are the grass fed beef and lamb are assumed to be rare in the chart while the other meats are well done?



I've been eating 85% lean grass fed burgers a lot since I found this blog, which I cook slowly in a frying pan with grass fed butter with some sea salt) with amazing results. I think it tastes better if I cook the meat to medium than to rare. How much do oxidized fat levels spike if i cook my grass fed burger to medium instead of medium/rare?

Comments

  • Hey Zing:



    I just wanted to comment on my reaction to certain fats, on detail on poly-unsaturated. I can eat a lot of MCT, grassfed ghee, butter, coconut oil,and tallow, with no problems on skin. I consider them the safest for me. But I'm very careful with mono-unsaturated fats and poly-unsaturated fats, except Macadamia nut oil which also I consider safe. The higher the degree of poly-unsaturated fats (especially omega 6s), the higher the likelyhood for me to develope pimples on my face. I've seen it numerous times, I even tested it and is just a reaction my skin has. But at the same time, If I get a pimple, I usually melt tallow and drink it and within a day the pimple is gone. I believe those poly-unsaturaded fats tend to be inflammatory, and my body is very sensitive to them.



    So there is an example of something that oxidizable fats can do to people, because I bet that my reaction is not unique to me. Most people with acne are prescribed lots of antibiotics which attack the "bacteria", or one of those proactive garbage that dehydrates and destroys the skin. But the real Inflammatory problem is never targeted, and in my opinion it may be due to higher intake of oxidizable fats or a fatty acid imbalance. I bet if those unhealthy fats are removed and replaced with healthy saturated ones, the inflammatory response would go to anti-inflammatory and help heal the pimples instead of spreading them.



    Just to note which fats I consider the most offenders to me, and by chance they seem to be pretty high in omega 6s:



    Worst:

    Corn oil (really bad and evil fat, I hate it and consider it the cheapest garbage out there)-->Cottonseed oil (evil, smells like urine)-->soybean (very evil, worst if hyfrogenated which is now a fashion design in the food industry and widely available in "restaurants" like Denny's, Mac Donald's, etc)-->sunflower--> other seed oils (flax, hemp seed, etc)....



    Cautious with:

    Nut oils (except macadamia and hazelnuts): Worst offender in nuts: Peanuts-->Cashews (evil)-->walnuts-->pistachios...almonds (experimenting with this one, so far no problems).



    Other oils cautious:

    Olive oil (almost never use it)--> Avocado oil (safer than olive, no more than a serving a day for me)--> Fish oil (if overboard with this one, I also get skin reactions).



    Very safe fats:



    **Tallow, grasfed ghee/butter,MCT oil, Coconut oil and need to test palm oil.



    Safe mono-unsaturated Fats:

    Macadamia nut--> hazelnuts



    **Tallow works great to revert pimples.....At least i've seen that response in my skin whenever I get one.
  • Thanks for sharing those observations, ClownFish - very interesting. Anyone have other personal observations or know where to look for studies on this topic?
  • edited August 2012
    Great question, I've been wondering about this as well. When I first started out, I was very cautious and only eating my grass fed beef very rare.

    I now cook a bit more thorougly with lots of butter/coconut oil and quite a bit of water.



    edit: Best way. Low heat, short cooking duration.
  • How do you know if fat has oxidized or not? A certain smell? Taste? Look? Feel? Can you oxidize grass fed ghee and otge energy saturated fats?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

    -Einstein

  • For the most unsaturated fats, light or even room temperature can oxidize it. This is why flax seed oil is sold in black bottles in the refrigerator. For more saturated fats, it's heat... and making it smoke is a good indicator. 


     


    You can look up the "smoke points" of various fats.


  • For what it's worth, ben greenfield recently mentioned on his podcast that olive oil can actually be heated to higher temps without oxidizing than was previously thought.


    Also, according to my wellness fx panel I have too much omega 3 and a good low level of omega 6 along with very low hsCRP (low inflammation), and have had some acne lately, so I dunno if it has anything to do with omega 6s, oxidation, or inflammation.
  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited June 2015


    Also, according to my wellness fx panel I have too much omega 3 and a good low level of omega 6 along with very low hsCRP (low inflammation), and have had some acne lately, so I dunno if it has anything to do with omega 6s, oxidation, or inflammation.




     


    studies have show that a deficiency in omega-6's (LA, GLA) can result in skin problems. now an n6 deficiency is rare. i think most of the studies that showed these issues were on patients being tube fed.


     


    but anyway, makes me wonder if similar skin issues can arise if your n3's are too high compared with your n6's. ie. your n3's are negating the positive functions of the n6's. this sounds feasible, for one reason both n3's & n6's 'compete' for the use of the same enzymes (ie. D6D, elongase, D5D) in the LA and ALA metabolic pathways.


     


    efa_skinhealth_figure1_v7.png (image source)


    fake it till you make it



  • I have too much omega 3




     


    I didn't think that was possible. What would be the effects of too much Omega 3?



  • studies have show that a deficiency in omega-6's (LA, GLA) can result in skin problems. now an n6 deficiency is rare. i think most of the studies that showed these issues were on patients being tube fed.


     


    but anyway, makes me wonder if similar skin issues can arise if your n3's are too high compared with your n6's. ie. your n3's are negating the positive functions of the n6's. this sounds feasible, for one reason both n3's & n6's 'compete' for the use of the same enzymes (ie. D6D, elongase, D5D) in the LA and ALA metabolic pathways.


     


     




     


     


    interesting! my skin has been a little dryer than usual, despite doing cold showers,dry brushing, no soap, no poo. it was worse last year, i had one weekend of the worst chapped lips ever. i thought maybe it was from being too low carb, but maybe these omega 3/6 ratios have something to do with it. and i have had some acne in odd places, behind my ear lobes, on my thighs, etc. but i thought you get adequate omega 6s from meat, and my panel said i was right in the middle of the normal range for omega 6, but way off the charts with omega 3s. i was maybe going a little overboard on the fish oil after reading a recommendation on here to get pretty high levels of EPA. 

  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited November 2014

    @drumminangoleiro,


    i'll add some comments/views on fish oil intake when i get some time, & i'll try & include some refs &/or links. personally i do not take any fish oil, i eat fatty fish.


     


    how is your liver health...i just had a look at your other post here, but the numbers mean nothing to me, because they have no units (or lab ranges), if you get a chance possibly update with units & lab ranges. fish oil (excessive?) can impact the liver, tho usually when combined with other variables, such as alcohol or fructose (or both).


     


    also, do you notice any correlation between your acne and your fish oil intake.


    fake it till you make it

  • My liver numbers were all in their normal range, none of them being even borderline moderate risk I don't think. I can post em tomorrow when I'm at home. I don't drink and I've rarely had a full serving of fruit..I do eat 4-6 squares of 85-90% with lunch or have a serving of sweet potato on a lot of days, drink 2 servings of coconut water post workout, and eat a LOT of sweet potatoes once a week. Also usually a few quest bars a week. That's pretty much all my carb intake.
  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited November 2014


    Oh, and i have noticed some of the acne clearing up, and I quit taking the fish oil a week and a half ago.




     


    good to hear. i would stick with the no fish oil. in my view most of the 'hype' around supplementing with fish oil, is more to do with 'cancelling' out high n6 intake from a bad diet/processed diet. if you are eating a low n6 diet & eating oily fish, there is no need to take fish oil, which is probably rancid anyway.


     


    the acne clearing up could be related to you dropping the fish oil...


    if it is related, one possible reason could be that dropping the fish oil has allowed the ratio of GLA (gamma linolenic acid aka y-linolenic acid) levels to rise relative to your EPA/DHA levels. A lack of GLA seems to be related to bad skin, including acne (google GLA acne etc).


    Just a theory really.


    But given that your omega-6 is low compared to your omega-3 (wellnessfx results), you were/are probably low/deficient in GLA. There are very few dietary sources of GLA, most/all of our GLA is made from the dietary n6 Linoleic acid (LA), if all is well.


    Anecdotally, when i had dry skin, i supplemented with 3 grams of cold pressed non-gmo evening primrose oil (epo) per day (gla=300mg). & as my skin got better, i dropped to 2 grams epo p/d. 


    My skin is good now, tho i still take 1 gram epo (gla=100mg) p/d day as a precaution (my 'maintenance dose').


    fake it till you make it

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