Liftmode - Phenibut Review

Jason HooperJason Hooper ✭✭✭
edited June 2013 in Sleep

I must begin this review by disclosing that I have entered into an agreement with Liftmode to review their Phenibut product in exchange for twenty American dollars in store credit.  They did not tell me that I had to write a favorable review, so I am free to write anything that I want.


 


Since my wife has entered her second trimester, her sleep quality has been suffering.  She tosses and turns throughout the night.  I do not consciously notice this, but my Zeo sure does!  Here is a typical night of data:


 


Before.JPG


 


I would wake up feeling exhausted.  My mood was wretched, my creativity suffered, and my joints began to ache.  I needed to hack my sleep, so I went back to a supplement that I vowed never to take again--GABA.  It helped my sleep, but the side effects were brutal.  Thirty minutes after taking it, I would get a metallic taste in my mouth, my respiration would increase, and I would just feel awful.  After doing some research, I found that GABA does not cross the blood-brain barrier very effectively.


 


320px-Gabapentin_3D.png


See how the amine (blue) and carboxyl (red) backbone is deformed?  The side chain is also misshaped.  In the 1960s, Soviet scientists addressed this issue by developing a drug called Noofen which changed the side chain to a phenyl ring to form Î²-phenyl-γ-aminobutyric acid.


 


Phenibut.gif


 


Here is a great document that talks about the pharmacology:


 


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1527-3458.2001.tb00211.x/pdf


 


I began to look for a product to self experiment with.  The encapsulated versions were expensive, so I found it in the form of crystallized granuals from Liftmode.


 


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0085Z31US/ref=oh_details_o05_s01_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


 


They test their each batch for impurities and have set the minimum requirement for 99.8 percent purity.  I found that to be impressive.


 


The bad:


 


To stabilize their product, Liftmode went with a hydrochloric compound.  If you are prone to acid reflux, this may be a problem for you.


There are still some side effects, but they are far less than taking GABA.


Although it has an effect on bega-GABA (rather than a-GABA) it is physically addictive.


This product can be hard on the liver if taken regularly at doses that exceed fifteen grams.


 


The good:


 


I will let the data speak for itself:


 


After.JPG


 


I woke up feeling amazing.  My joints feel good.  I took a shower than started composing some really great music.  I plan on using no more than a gram per night and cycling this product regularly.


Comments

  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭
    edited June 2013

    Phenibut has issues with physical addiction in some people and has been linked to cause withdrawl symptoms. It should only be used sparingly my friend. With that note it definitely does work. http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f56/phenibut-84136/


    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

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  • katolotuskatolotus ✭✭✭

    Some info on GABA on the 'Not Just Paleo Podcast' with Beverly Meyer (23rd April 2013). Might be worth a listen if you're interested in this product.


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • I have updated my post to include that information.  I will look for a way to hack the adrenergic storm by cycling tyramine suppressors.  What would you suggest?  Zinc?  Bystolic?  Grapefruit seed extract?  Oregano oil?


  • What are your thoughts on using L-Tryptophan before sleep?


  • John BrissonJohn Brisson The Legend Formerly Known as Ron Swanson ✭✭✭

    I have updated my post to include that information.  I will look for a way to hack the adrenergic storm by cycling tyramine suppressors.  What would you suggest?  Zinc?  Bystolic?  Grapefruit seed extract?  Oregano oil?


    Zinc, I would only go with zinc.

    My book Fix Your Gut, is offered on Amazon for $9.99.

     

    I also offer coaching:  http://fixyourgut.com/health-coaching-information/

     

    Please join or like the Fix your Gut Facebook. Also please add me on twitter @FixYourGutJB.

     

    http://www.fixyourgut.com

     

  • Evan BrandEvan Brand Writer and Explorer

    Some info on GABA on the 'Not Just Paleo Podcast' with Beverly Meyer (23rd April 2013). Might be worth a listen if you're interested in this product.


    Thanks Katolotus, I use a GABA supplement which Beverly didn't seem to prefer.


     


    She said that it's great if it works for you, but prefers to recommend passionflower for anxiety relief and pleasurable relaxation at lower doses, to knocking you on your ass at higher doses.


     


    Here's the link to the episode.

    Evan Brand, NTP, CPT

    Functional Medicine Practitioner and Podcast Host at NotJustPaleo.com

    Author of REM Rehab and Stress Solutions

  • Jason HooperJason Hooper ✭✭✭
    edited June 2013

    Thanks!  I will have to research chrysin flavones in more detail.  It is relatively toxic, but it does not have the benzo-like rebound.  


     


    Dr. Meyer sparked my interest with the idea of "leaky brain."  I will have to research proteins that cause problems in the blood-brain barrier.  Obviously gluten is one of them, but I suspect there are many others.


  • Really interesting post Jason! This is some ground-breaking stuff your posting on here..not heard of this Phenibut before

  • @Jason Hooper: what dosage of GABA were you taking to experience those side effects?


  • Anything over a gram will give me a reaction.


  • katolotuskatolotus ✭✭✭
    edited June 2013

    Just ordered some GABA to try out :wink:


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • In Podcast 45, Dave Asprey recommends it quite strongly for both anxiolytic effects during the day, and to help cure jet lag (and presumably sleep at night).


     


    I've found 500mg to work pretty well to quieten the 'monkey brain' at night, but I haven't really paid attention to any side effects that might arise the next morning. Perhaps you'll be alright as long as you use less than 1000mg?


     


    In the podcast he mentioned that he's also experimenting with a more bioavailable form of GABA that might be released as a product soon.


  • Any update on this?


     


    I use:


     


    -300mg phenibut with ginger 15mg once a week 


    -10mg magnesium and valerian once week


    -ZMA 1 tab once a week


     


    I cycle off inbetween days for the rest of the week.


     


    Sleep great every night, but the best night is with the phenibut (subjective). Are you cycling on and off?


    Reigning Former Inner Balance "Mad Monk" Champion... :-P 

  • ArcArc
    edited June 2013

    I have been using phenibut for a few years now - I try to limit use to 1 - 2 times a week.


     


    Too much phenibut gives a hangover - which is very much like being drunk, but without the mental retardation.


     


    I have found it excellent at changing my sleep cycle, because if you take enough of it (3-4 grams); you will find it very easy to sleep.


     


    Also from my experience (Zeo) it doesn't reduce deep sleep, which I believe is an issue with GABA-A pharmaceuticals.


     


     


    I have used GABA in the past, and it definetely has strange side-effects; which aren't very comfortable, so I ended up throwing the rest of it out.


     


     


    In terms of an excellent sleep stack:


    • Melatonin
    • Taurine
    • Glycine
    • Theanine
    • Magnesium

    I have however run out of theanine, and magnesium.


     


    But the above works rather well, and you can add in phenibut or something less strong like valerian, chamomile, lemon grass or passion flower if the need arises. Note that some of the herbs have an in inhibitory effect on thyroid, so I would use very sparingly.


     


    Above all I think that sleep is a skill in some regards - if you are not suffering from external environmental factors (i.e. other people snoring etc) - and that the more you sleep better, the better you become at sleeping.


    So I haven't felt the need to replace the magnesium or theanine; and I could probably make do on the melatonin alone now.


  • this is my review of Liftmode Phenibut


    5 stars


     


     


    Been using bout 4 months.


    Keeping a steady supply even if overnighted.


    Best source is from Liftmode website itself.


     is great to take instead of  Pills. I do take 1000mgs twice a day, so its a little more than the recommended, but it works! No prob with success. Just remember to take a few days off, no Pheibut for 2 or 3 days, then go back on.


  • Evan BrandEvan Brand Writer and Explorer

    Nice Results Jason. Our episode together should be up in few weeks.


     


    Also, phenibut is great for social anxiety and increasing confidence in those that lack it. If you start typing phenibut around the internet, a lot of the time you'll end up at socialanxietyforum.com where people who can't get out of the bed and are too scared to leave the house use it to help them.


     


    Although a buddy of mine used to joke around and say he would have a "phenibut party" with his friends because taking it in a group setting was awesome.


     


    Yeah, definitely watch out for addiction though. He ended up addicted and had to use around 6 grams a day to sleep and function. Without it, he couldn't sleep, had shakes, cold hands and feet, irritability etc. 


     


    Always goes back to the effective dose versus the "over-dose".  I use around 750mg dose in water and actually love the taste of it because of the relaxation that will follow.


    Evan Brand, NTP, CPT

    Functional Medicine Practitioner and Podcast Host at NotJustPaleo.com

    Author of REM Rehab and Stress Solutions

  • googlealchemistgooglealchemist Alchemist

    I have a good amount of experience with phenibut.


     


    It can indeed be absolutely wonderful. That said, it can be absolutely horrible and physically/mentally addictive real quick with serious potential withdrawls.


     


    "This product can be hard on the liver if taken regularly at doses that exceed fifteen grams" Just to be clear for everyone, especially first timers,15g is an insanely high dose. 500MILLIgrams as a first tester.




    I have updated my post to include that information.  I will look for a way to hack the adrenergic storm by cycling tyramine suppressors.  What would you suggest?  Zinc?  Bystolic?  Grapefruit seed extract?  Oregano oil?




     


    What are the details with the 'adrenergic storm'? mentioned there?


     




    Thanks!  I will have to research chrysin flavones in more detail.  It is relatively toxic, but it does not have the benzo-like rebound.  


     


    Dr. Meyer sparked my interest with the idea of "leaky brain."  I will have to research proteins that cause problems in the blood-brain barrier.  Obviously gluten is one of them, but I suspect there are many others.




     


    Keep researching before you decide its toxic. I can't speak from experience yet but anyting that tickles gaba receptors will have some sort of rebound depending on use.


     




    this is my review of Liftmode Phenibut


    5 stars


     


     


    Been using bout 4 months.


    Keeping a steady supply even if overnighted.


    Best source is from Liftmode website itself.


     is great to take instead of  Pills. I do take 1000mgs twice a day, so its a little more than the recommended, but it works! No prob with success. Just remember to take a few days off, no Pheibut for 2 or 3 days, then go back on.




     


    'Instead of pills'? For all intents and purposes here phenibut is a pill/drug. That misconception coupled with thinking that limited cycling, at those dosages or any other,  is going to keep you out of trouble, you are quite frankly deluding yourself...severey.


     


    Anyone debating use or continued use should search for all the withdrawl/horror stories compiled over at the mind and muscle forum. Not into fear mongering, especially with drugs, but considering (no idea how) phen. is still legal ppl seem to get into trouble with it.


    Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

     

    Lifestyle Designer, SEO Alchemist, Entrepreneur

  • edited June 2016

    Over on longecity phenibut has a bad rep. However this is mainly because people don't use it as a sleeping aid and more of a feel good supplement (Personally I think its amazing and I use it quite frequently with no withdrawals, but tolerance quickly builds).  I have a high tolerance to nootropics, this stuff is strong. If you take more than 3 grams your an imbecile, you'll just get a high, followed by a low with rapid tolerance buildup and dependency. I'd estimate 2 grams no more than 3 times a week is around the limit most people could go for without the extremely negative side-effects. 


     


    For the purposes of a sleeping aid if used responsibly it is highly effective. 

  • edited August 2014

    How much do you use?  I like to use 3g right before bed but I've heard of ppl using much higher doses during the day and getting energy instead of sleepy.


  • How does it compare to GABBAwave?


  • How does it compare to GABBAwave?




     


    GABAwave is a liposomal phenibut GABA. SAme thing but taken in a different way. Also keep in mind GABAwave is time-release over 36 hours and the max dose of 1 ampoule is only 600mg of GABA.


     


    GABAwave is the ideal in terms of using it for the focus effects/countering stress in my experience.


     


    If you follow the instructions on the box, you shouldn't have any issues.

    Biggest takeaway after several years as a hardcore biohacker: think long-term. Focus on health first before adding in boosters. It works a lot better.
  • I finally finished off the F.A.A version of phenibut from liftmode.com last week so i am very familiar with it as it took me over a year to finish the 100 gram tube...first off i have tried the HCI version on numerous occasions and the deference to me is the taste and that's number one..the F.A.A version taste a whole lot better then the HCI and with that being said that was an instant plus do to the fact you can actually take the f.a.a version sublingual which comes on about and hour or two early so instead of waiting 3 or 4 hours for the HCI version to take effect u only have to wait 1 or 2 hours for the F.A.A version to take effect which is better if you can not spare the extra time..so about the effect of both was to be honest the effects was no different for me as both have me feeling the same was on my normally 2 gram dose and that is extremely social more vocal more calm more at ease a sense of well-being and just Gives me a feeling of loving to be around others and all so the duration of both last the same which is about 12 hours for me before I feel almost at baseline again so my conclusion is if you are looking for a faster come up with and you can not handle the acidic taste of the HCI version then the F.A.A version is for you sense you can take this type sublingually with no problem but they both work wonders for Anxiety and depression ...be careful not to take it everyday is my only advice
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