Isn't Exercise Bad For You?

edited July 2013 in Athletic Performance

Hi guys,


 


I know this question sounds awfully stupid, but Im reading now the book Body by Science (superb by the way), and it says that when we work out

this induces a inflammatory process, making lysosomes and macrophages  metabolise and synthesise new chemicals and new tissue.


And when you stop exercising, your body starts to lose lean mass.


 


So, despite the great look, isnt exercise bad for a longer life perspective? Isnt bigger muscles a signal of great inflammation?


 


A similar point of view would be the more grain fibers you take, the best your gut work, since with the inflammation induced by the grain it produces more mucus...


(as with the inflammation produced by the workouts we produce more muscles...)


 


Im taking here the point by Dave that says that the lower inflammation the better.


 


Let me know what you think.


 


Regards,


 


Elias Y.


Comments

  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    Great book isn't it? I've read it, now I'm re-reading it and taking detailed notes.


     


    Zero inflammation is not a healthy goal. A healthy body needs some level of inflammation to run properly. Couple that with the definitions in the beginning of the book, where they define health as "A physiological state in which there is an absense of disease or pathology and that maintains the necessary biologic balance between the catabolic and anabolic states."


     


    Once you get to the list of benefits from HIT (there are many) you'll see that a little inflammation is nothing compared to the benefits you receive from this type of training.


     


    It would be good to understand more about the science behind that inflammation.


  • edited July 2013

    I think one of the awesome things about the bulletproof lifestyle, is that it gives you "margin for error".


     


    If you got your nutrition sorted, if you got your sleep sorted, if you got your de-stress and recovery sorted, then your body is going to be able to cope just fine with a bit of exercise. 


     


    You can also use things like the EmWave2 or Inner Balance iPhone app to measure your Heart Rate Variability and coherence. You can then check your HRV and coherence throughout the week as you exercise, to test for overtraining. If you can't get a decent HRV, or have very low coherence, then this might be an indicator that you need to give your body some time to recover.


     


    I know a lot of people do this, and they just adjust the intensity of their workouts accordingly. If they have a good HRV, then they ramp up the intensity. If they have a low HRV, then they still workout but they take it easy and perhaps focus more on getting a good stretch and range of motion than actually tearing down muscle fibers, etc.


     


    So if you do exercise (like I do - which is usually around 4 times a week), just keep the following in mind:


    1) Adjust your nutrition accordingly. Don't combine stress from lack of nutrients/calories with stress from exercise like most people instinctively do on diets. Increase your nutrient intake when you workout.


    2) Increase the amount of sleep you get around the days that you workout so that your body can recover (and of course do all you can to improve the quality of your sleep).


    3) Stimulate recovery as much as possible via supplementing, deep tissue massages, Epsom salts, etc.


    4) Manage your lifestyle stress as much as possible. Meditation, breathing exercises, positive psychology, and just in general de-stress.


     


    These podcasts might benefit you as well if you haven't listened to them already. #6 and #26 will be first priority. #33 and #38 are useful. #3 Time Noak's Central Governer Theory is just a badass concept when it comes to exercise and performance (and I'm a bit biased because I'm also from Cape Town, South Africa like he is haha).


     


    Podcast #3: Hacking Fatigue With Tim Noakes (Plus More 4 Hour Body Fun) (http://www.bulletpro...-hour-body-fun/)
    Podcast #6: Optimum Performance Training with James Fitzgerald (http://www.bulletpro...mes-fitzgerald/)


    Podcast #26: Body By Science with Dr. Doug McGuff, MD (http://www.bulletpro...doug-mcguff-md/)


    Podcast #33: Injury prevention and Wellness with Dr. Justin Marchegiani (http://www.bulletpro...in-marchegiani/)


    Podcast #38: Becoming a Bulletproof Warrior with SEALFIT’s founder Mark Divine (http://www.bulletpro...er-mark-divine/)


    Podcast #43: Bulletproof Your Mobility and Performance with Kelly Starrett (http://www.bulletpro...kelly-starrett/)


     


    Props to Nate Brady for his Table of Contents here that let me quickly pull out the podcast listings: http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/4396-bulletproof-blog-table-of-contents/


  • Taken from Jack Kruses Leptin Reset FAQ


     


    Why should I avoid aerobic exercise during the reset? This will require some explanation. If you’re LR, you are a sugar burner, not a fat burner. That means you can not do glycolytic exercise until your muscles and lever become completely LS as well. Your brain being LS is not enough. If your muscles are still LR, they can’t properly use the glucose or the fat delivered to them. This is detailed in the “Why is Oprah still Fat” post.


    Another to avoid aerobic exercise at this stage is because the AMPk pathways are not working well yet. (This will be the focus of an upcoming blog post.) AMPk is stimulated by re-teaching your muscles and liver how to deplete glycogen and metabolically respond to hypoxia and cellular stressors. Any time metabolism is stressed, AMPk should respond in kind with big results. In LR, it does not work well at all. This is why body composition is trashed in LR states. If you do aerobic exercise when you are still leptin resistant, you send signals to the mitochondria that conditions are really bad. Instead of making new mitochondria to help out, you wind up killing your cells via apoptosis. New stems cells are recruited to replace the suicidal cells. Sounds good? The problem is those stem cells were going to help extend your life span, and, well, you just shortened it! This is why NFL players, bodybuilders, and marathoners don’t live long as group, and why they get many disease early, such as heart attacks, Alzheimers, and cancer. Not good. Longevity always mandates we protect our stem cells. We only want to use them when we really need them. If you use them early in life, you’re subtracting years from the end of your life.


     


     


     


     


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    I take it that LS=Leptin Sensitive and LR=Leptin Resistant?




  • I take it that LS=Leptin Sensitive and LR=Leptin Resistant?




     


     


    Yes. Plus, consider biologically, you are putting your body into a fight or flight situation hormonally when you work out a certain way. Telling your body that you are being preyed upon on a daily to semi daily basis, that just sounds like bad message to send your body.

  • Hi guys,


     


    Thanks for the great responses. In fact, CSp8 captured my initial intention. If you need to constantly trigger a inflammatory process to mantain your body tissue, simulating a fight or flight situation, inst it a bad thing?


    Of course, this impact can be reduced by other measures, like a good diet, but still, it does kill cells in this process, so it could be a factor in premature aging. 


    HIT seems to minimize the impact of this bad part of exercise on health when compared to other methods, as the triggering process is irregular and infrequent, but one might say that this still injuries the body.


    So a way to think would be: when the advantages of more lean mass are surpassed by the problems occasioned by its achievement?


     


    This goes against conventional wisdow and is food for thought. I will read the Jack Kruses site to see if he says anything more about this.


     


    Steve,


     


    Great information by the way, I think Im in the same boat that you, I also would like to understand more about this kind of inflammation and its impacts on longevity (if its really "good" for the body, and not only "functional").  


    Elias Y.


  • T-Tapp, walking, and heavy lifting for short periods of time are the only kinds of workouts that I subscribe to. T-Tapp gets so much lymph moving and makes so many weird new neurokinetic connections it has to outweigh some of the body stressors aerobics puts onto it.


  • Could it be that the lumps I thought were muscles are actually inflammation?  This changes everything!  I bet if I stopped lifting weights eventually this inflammation would go away.  Cursed inflammation, curse you!!!  I got a bad case of the lumps.




  • T-Tapp, walking, and heavy lifting for short periods of time are the only kinds of workouts that I subscribe to. T-Tapp gets so much lymph moving and makes so many weird new neurokinetic connections it has to outweigh some of the body stressors aerobics puts onto it.




     


     


    this is how i feel about capoeira and yoga. i also suspect that the effects of exercise are different depending on what state of mind you are in. if you are all amped up and trying to push your hardest, i would think this would cause more stress. but if you are relaxed, calm, and only exerting when and where needed, i think that is almost like what you guys are doing with your biofeedback devices (which i will get into one of these days). and that kind of brings me to this:


     


    Things that are bad for you don't improve you, if your exercise isn't improving you then you need to change it, much like our diet.

     


     


    I think its important to narrow down for yourself what "improve you" really means though.Some people just want to be a bulletproof exec...some people are satisfied with working in an office, starting a business, spending time with their families, and maybe those people don't need much exercise (everyone needs at least a LITTLE though right? unless you've zapped yourself into a computer world like the lawnmower man or something). But I think its more important to follow your passions than it is to make your top priority to live for some ideal of health or looks (unless that IS your passion, in which case, you may want to reconsider some things in your life...not judging or anything, but geez that seems like a strange, unhappy approach to life). So to me, the value of the whole Bulletproof thing is hacking ways to improve my life and ENHANCE my passions. I want to become a better angoleiro, musician, instructor, yogi...i want to run around in the woods and learn self-reliance...a lot of these things can be physically demanding, and maybe thats not the ideal for becoming a bulletproof executive, but i'm more interested in being a bulletproof ...whatever i am (eclectic weirdo i guess?). 



  • this is how i feel about capoeira and yoga. i also suspect that the effects of exercise are different depending on what state of mind you are in. if you are all amped up and trying to push your hardest, i would think this would cause more stress. but if you are relaxed, calm, and only exerting when and where needed, i think that is almost like what you guys are doing with your biofeedback devices (which i will get into one of these days). and that kind of brings me to this:


     


     


     


     


     


    I think its important to narrow down for yourself what "improve you" really means though.Some people just want to be a bulletproof exec...some people are satisfied with working in an office, starting a business, spending time with their families, and maybe those people don't need much exercise (everyone needs at least a LITTLE though right? unless you've zapped yourself into a computer world like the lawnmower man or something). But I think its more important to follow your passions than it is to make your top priority to live for some ideal of health or looks (unless that IS your passion, in which case, you may want to reconsider some things in your life...not judging or anything, but geez that seems like a strange, unhappy approach to life). So to me, the value of the whole Bulletproof thing is hacking ways to improve my life and ENHANCE my passions. I want to become a better angoleiro, musician, instructor, yogi...i want to run around in the woods and learn self-reliance...a lot of these things can be physically demanding, and maybe thats not the ideal for becoming a bulletproof executive, but i'm more interested in being a bulletproof ...whatever i am (eclectic weirdo i guess?). 


     


    I don't disagree with what you said, but its more tangential to the thread. Long time low/high inflammatory levels cut your life span down, that's all. If you want to disregard that hypothesis, its totally cool, but it will cut into your time in being a bulletproof eclectic weirdo.



  • yeah i dunno if i buy it. there are enough examples of old people who work hard into their old age to  make me think i can live a long healthy life and be physically active, if i pay attention to what my body tells me. i'll just have to wait and see if i'm still doing handstands in another 60 years. 


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    If you follow Body By Science, you will be! ;-)




  • yeah i dunno if i buy it. there are enough examples of old people who work hard into their old age to  make me think i can live a long healthy life and be physically active, if i pay attention to what my body tells me. i'll just have to wait and see if i'm still doing handstands in another 60 years. 




    too many variables in a statement like that to point to it as proof of anything but chance. Guess that's as much proof as anyone really can have, eh? But really, genetics and formerly unpoisoned food sources that are now estrogenic pestricide nightmares makes it harder and harder to point to those old timers as proof that it can be done. They didn't have to deal with the levels of pollution we did, both physical and electrical.

  • drumminangoleirodrumminangoleiro ✭✭✭
    edited July 2013

    true, but there are still some old folks doin some crazy stuff out there. 


     


    i'll have to look more into this idea of "exercise is bad for you", because the statement is obviously oversimplified. i know most ways people exercise causes a lot of wear and tear on joints and whatnot, and causes a lot of mental/emotional (and therefore physical) stress, hence why i am more into things that are low-impact and aimed at maintaining calmness, and from what i've seen, pretty sustainable. i'm not too familiar with the idea of inflammation being a result of exercise other than dave's mentions of it. but hey, if its a choice between living to be 90 and physically active or 95 and being afraid to exercise, i'll choose the former. most of the old folks in my family died of some sort of chronic disease (most likely from diet and work-related stress), but i do have one uncle who is over 90 and can do fingertip pushups, and still climbs trees! and its not from drinking bulletproof coffee. 


    • All our genes are vastly different, Ill say that much. You wont know til its too late.
  • Don't worry we're evolutionarily programed as humans to adapt to many different types of physical labor. Mother nature isn't stupid, therefore neither are you. Heavy lifting, sprints etc.. aren't done to the degree they should be by the average person in todays world. Yes exercise can be bad if its poorly planned such as piling it on top of other stressors or movement of heavy loads with poor posture and muscular imbalances. 




  • Don't worry we're evolutionarily programed as humans to adapt to many different types of physical labor. Mother nature isn't stupid, therefore neither are you. Heavy lifting, sprints etc.. aren't done to the degree they should be by the average person in todays world. Yes exercise can be bad if its poorly planned such as piling it on top of other stressors or movement of heavy loads with poor posture and muscular imbalances. 




     


    Its not just the physical labor - its the greatly increased pollutants that we are exposed to from all angles and how they might interact with your bodys already stressed out system.

  • Hi guys,


     


    Read some more news to fuel this conversation. in Body By Science they consider the trainees to be feeding himselfs a diet preponderant in carbohydrates.


    In a recent book, by Phinney and Volek, "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" they say about athletes whom are in a Ketogenic diet (less than 50g of carbo/day and 80% or more of calorie intake with fat):


    (p. 44)


    -Avoiding wide excursions in blood sugar and insulin by burning predominately fatty acids and ketones can lessen the ‘stress’ response to exercise.


     


    -Keto-adaptation results in less generation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) and therefore better preservation of highly unsaturated fatty acids (HUFA) in cell membranes.


    -Less metabolic stress, improved fuel flow, and healthier membranes translate into faster recovery from exercise and less exercise-induced inflammation, immunosupression, gastro-intestinal distress, insulin resistance, muscle damage, and soreness.


    -Maintaining adequate membrane HUFA status can be further supported by ensuring adequate intake (via your diet or supplements) of omega-3 HUFA and antioxidant/anti-inflammatory compounds like the ‘gamma form’ of vitamin E.


    Great stuff.


     


    Regards,


     


    Elias Y


  • Other than walk to starbucks for more organic coffee, thats all the exercise I do now. Im concerned about heart health and all the studies point out that exercise increases inflammation aka heart damage.


     


    Stick with a diet high in heart healthy saturated fats, low exercise and plenty of modafinil and BP coffee for best results. Hey works for me and Dave sure looks in great shape.


     


    Why exercise like your life depends on it when it doesnt? I havent exercised in a few years now. Ive gained a lot of weight but its all muscle bulk.


  • i dunno man. this anti exercise attitude just seems like justifying laziness in a lot of ways. i understand there's an extreme of stressing yourself out with amped-up over-the-top exercise, but there's a certain amount of functional ability that you are gonna be missing out on if you quit completely...you know the phrase "use it or lose it". and saying "it works for dave"  seems kind of lame. i wonder how many BPers are avoiding exercise because Dave took a picture of his abs and said he never works out.i'm not buying this "coffee gives you muscles" thing.


  • According to Kruse, working out is incredibly counterproductive unless your hormones and pathways are straight. Its a safe bet that someone with properly working pathways is rare in this incredibly polluted world. But even if they are, you do anything to raise your cortisol for that long, you are telling your body that you are being threatened as prey. How happy are your cells going to be if they are always thinking you are under immediate physical attack? Like I said, walking for any length of time, TTapp, and lifting heavy weights for no longer than 30-40 minutes sounds like plenty of exercise to me. Even the creator of TTapp says once you are out of "boot camp" - doing the full length workout for 4 to 14 days in a row depending on how much fat you have to lose - you are only to use the full length workouts every other day MAX. Proper nutritional in between for muscle recovery. Heres another article that will scare you off of working out.


     


    http://everydaypaleo.com/friends-dont-let-friends-do-cardio/


  • yeah that is plenty of exercise. and if exercise is all you are looking for then that will work i'm sure. sounds pretty boring to me though. as does most running and cardio and stuff. 


  • J.T.J.T.
    edited July 2013

    You honestly think that sitting around on your ass all day is healthier for you than moving around?


     


    Exercise is how our lymphatic system gets stimulated. From movement! If we just sit around all day, our body is unable to circulate toxins!


     


    In my opinion, people who try to justify exercise as being unhealthy are just lazy. Exercise has many health benefits as long as you don't overtrain.


  • Tell Jack Lalanne, who lived to 96 years old, that exercise is bad for you. This thread makes me sick.


  • CSp8CSp8
    edited July 2013


    Tell Jack Lalanne, who lived to 96 years old, that exercise is bad for you. This thread makes me sick.




     


    Too many variables to connect Jack Lalannes love of exercise to his longer than average lifespan. The entire planet and its food supply is MUCH more polluted for us than it was for him growing up. We begin injecting extra hormones and estrogenic compounds into kids as soon as they get off breastmilk (and even before, given the diet of the mother). Lots of 90 year olds grew up eating bacon and smoking 2 packs a day until they died. Exercise is one variable OF MANY. Did you read any of the actual entries in this thread? Or just the title?


  • edited July 2013

    Hei guys,


     


    Just to clarify, exercise is a activity that stimulates physiological adaptation that serves to enhance fitness and health and does not undermine the latter in the process of enhancing the former. Walking around is not exercise, neither climb some stairs, these are physical activities.


    Im not telling anyone to sit all day long, neither be moving low intensity all day long, because this isnt the topic.


     


    The idea is: Exercise, in the above definition, regardless fun, enjoyment, is a practice that everybody needs to do to stay healthy?


     


    And, more important, as exercise tends to indulce inflammation in the body, when the advantages of exercise, in other words more lean mass, are lost in the process to obtain it (regular work outs)?

    That is a hard question to aswer. You could think this way, a little more lean mass is good, it helps in activities in ordinary day etc, but to be a Mr. Olympia may be a bad thing for you and your body, because you constantly need to stimulates your body towards inflammation to mantain that mass.


    I posted that in a ketogenic diet the effects are less harzadous, so thats going to be my way. But, as the general knowledge always seems to be wrong (and you may agree, since you are in this forum), maybe advocate exercise for everybody as a fundamental to obtain and mantain health could be a error.


    Regards,


    Elias Y.

     


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    Once I'm done typing up my notes from Body By Science, I'll paste in the list of benefits one can get from HIT exercise. The list is huuuuge!


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