**top Scores** Inner Balance / Coherence

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  • -hope the recovery goes well kato


    -what helped me was reducing the timer to around 11 seconds (for a full breathe) and then just using the timer as a "rough guide", and to pay more attention to what my actual hrv pattern is doing


    -the 11 second mark, is, apparently, the time that studies show most people will average as maximum hrv output - eg this paper here


    -the default timer on the IB is 10 seconds


    -I find if I just go "by feel" around 11 seconds it is easier to maintain high coherence, for example, if I am a little slower it doesn't really matter, so long as I am reasonably consistent around 11 seconds


    -another key thing I did was pay attention to when my heart rate changes direction (increasing to decreasing), ahead of my breathe changing direction (from inhale to exhale) 


    -basically I use the 11 second timer to ramp up to coherence, and after I am above 6, I then rely on the hrv pattern to time my breathe - after it peaks I start exhaling, and after it bottoms, I start inhaling


    -technically, I understand this as letting the baro reflex lead my breathe


    -I keep an eye on the timer, just to coarsely "guide" the pattern, if the amount of hrv drops, I just focus on a few cycles where I try to get exactly 11 seconds in each cycle, to get it back up again


    -typically I can get above 70% (level 4 green) for each session now doing this


    -another thing that helped was watching this 3D video of diaphragm breathing - this was the first time diaphragm breathing really "clicked" for me


    Reigning Former Inner Balance "Mad Monk" Champion... :-P 

  • I like reading how everyone is doing.  I've been shooting for 1000 coherence point sessions, and averaging around 6.2. (a few 7.2's but not consistent) Tried watching the heart rate direction change and synching my breathing to that, and got 6.7 for the session.  Thanks for the tip! 


     


    Regarding the diaphragm, I had a teacher once that would say to focus on the diaphragm and make the movement of it as easy and effortless as possible... easier for me to do with the exhalation vs the inhalation, but nice feeling when I do get it. 


     


     


  • These posts are so useful, thank you, and all that geek fodder is going to keep me going for a while.


    It's funny how I find myself trying so hard to improve my coherence, and yet that becomes a downward spiral. Using the biofeedback to time my breaths makes so much more sense. What is the relationship between the breathing pacer and the ebb and flow of HRV? Because I find it more comfortable to pause my breathing at each end and then timing this with the breathing pacer still isn't fully comfortable for me. Yet.


    I'm beginning to find this sweet spot, somewhere between focus and trance where my HRV ramps up very quickly. It coincides with step improvements in the quality of my normal meditation too, so whilst IB and meditation are very different in focus, I am sure they are working similar "muscles" and accelerating my development. When doing inner balance I'm averaging around 6 now, whilst my coherence during normal meditation is around 4.
  • hrv and exercise.


     


    Previously, I mentioned how training on the IB, for hrv coherence, was both lowering my resting heart rate while at the same time raising my hrv amount.


     


    For example, when I started on the IB, my resting heart rate, during coherence, would vary between 70 and 90, now it varies between 45 and 75. [my average hr is dropping, but my total amount of hrv is increasing, during coherence]


     


    I was interested to see what my hrv, and coherence scores, were while doing exercise.


     


    First, I tested hrv during a stationary bike sprint that got my heart rate up to around 160 (yeah, I know, its not very high).


     


    9722394176_16f867c7ae.jpg


     


    Then, straight after, I trained on the IB to go to coherence (during the rest period, immediately after the bike set).


     


    9722394946_9bc2cc196c.jpg


     


    A few comments (and, obviously, this is just my own n=1):


     


    *typically, I can get to coherence within 30 seconds (when rested), but it takes me about a minute, or so, after a sprint to reach coherence


     


    *during this time, my heart rate is a lot higher (average around 90-95), but my total amount of hrv is around the same (approx 30), only at a higher rate (80-110)


     


    *the ability to recover between sets appears to be better for me (relative to not reaching coherence between sets) - with better recovery metrics over the following days (lower doms)

    Reigning Former Inner Balance "Mad Monk" Champion... :-P 

  • Have you tried the Bulletproof HRV app for training? Not quite the same, but interesting. I've been using it.


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • Greetings!

     

    I have been using IB for three weeks, I try to get 4 x 7.5 minute sessions in per day, maximum average coherence 7.0, max coherence 10.2.

    Daily averages work out 6-6.2 normally, I have noticed better scores between 10am and 6pm, I've also noticed higher scores right after training although I have only done this 3 times.

    I've done most sessions sitting, using the timer set to about 11s, Idevice held on a tabletop mic stand.

    I have tried lying down but it's awkward holding the device to see the timer, tried an audio metronome lying down but I set it too quick, got an average of 4.7.

    I'm going to make some audio tracks with patterns to time breathing with, maybe layer some binaural recordings into them.

    I did one session using pulse as the timer, didn't turn out too great but it would probably work better in the long run.

     

    Does anyone know how you would go about discerning overtraining etc using IB?

    I assume it could be used to read overtraining of the nervous system, I've been training since using it on a one day on, one day off pattern, I'm not seeing much difference in average daily scores and my last two training sessions were pretty heavy to the point where I would take an extra rest day.

     

     

    *Don't know how to upload images*


  • You're better off with the Bulletproof App or SweetBeat App (both the same, just branded) for HRV for training, which will give you scores each day and you can train around your scores. If your scores drop, you lower your training, if they are the same or increase, you can train more intensely. I've been using one for a couple of months.


     


    http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/4780-food-sense-app-by-the-bulletproof-executive-review/


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well



  • You're better off with the Bulletproof App or SweetBeat App (both the same, just branded) for HRV for training, which will give you scores each day and you can train around your scores. If your scores drop, you lower your training, if they are the same or increase, you can train more intensely. I've been using one for a couple of months.


     


    http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/4780-food-sense-app-by-the-bulletproof-executive-review/




     


    Cheers, am I right in thinking I need to download the BP Food app, then buy the HRV add on and purchase another HRV monitor?


     


    Have you found these helpful for judging training sessions?

  • I think it works quite well. I take a reading on waking every morning and it give me a score out of 100 (i think). I'm between 55-75 normally. 55 is bad and I'm in need of a break. 75 and I'm well rested and ready to train. Some morning's I wake feeling good and get a worse reading saying I shouldn't train as hard and I think it's wrong. Then when I train, I feel I'm not performing great. Just gives you an idea of where you're at. I'm careful if I get a poor reading in the morning during training to make sure I don't get injured. I still training though ;-)


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • Thanks katolous, been using BP App, just taking morning pulse so far though.


    Increased the pacer a little to 12s or so and knocked my scores up a little.


     


    Highest  Peak  11.7


    Got a couple of 7.5 session coherence scores ( under 1,000 points )


     


     


     


    coher.png

     

    Peak_11_7.png
  • kicking my arse. I'm lucky to get a score average of above 5.0 at the moment.


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • all mine are a minimum of 10mins. Had the app crash a couple of times, but then just do another 10min+ session. Still trying to get 2 in a day as much as possible.


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • My scores have been sucking lately. Not sure why, but not improving much.


     


    photo_zpsf2966b81.png


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • edited December 2013

     @katolotus, I have basically the same thing. I've been training for 7 days. Had a substantial increase in Coherence after five days or so (from 1ish to 4ish) but now, I can't even hold it at a stable 3. Over-trained HRV ? Is that even possible ?


     


    2013_12_24_1254.jpg


  • I don't know how everybody maintains coherence levels of 4 and above.  I hope to get there eventually.  I did a 40 minute session this morning, with an average coherence of 1.9 (I was on high level).  I'm sitting there pretty focused with the breath timer the entire time trying to picture happy things and all, but I couldn't get out of 1st gear.


     


    In Medium, I'm usually in the mid 3s for coherence and maintain green for 70-80% of the time.




  • I don't know how everybody maintains coherence levels of 4 and above.  I hope to get there eventually.  I did a 40 minute session this morning, with an average coherence of 1.9 (I was on high level).  I'm sitting there pretty focused with the breath timer the entire time trying to picture happy things and all, but I couldn't get out of 1st gear.


     


    In Medium, I'm usually in the mid 3s for coherence and maintain green for 70-80% of the time.




     


    Yep, I have something similar a lot of the days. Actually considering getting in touch with a trainer to have a coaching session through Skype.

  • I'm guessing it's the journey that matters.  I've been doing this for about 3 weeks regularly - I aim for 1000 pts a day.  I'm starting to figure out what I'm doing but I have a feeling that I need to be exercising more in my life in order to get my coherence scores generally up.  Anybody else see this?


     


    Also - for those of you putting up these super high scores - what types of abilities and accomplishments have you seen as a result? 


  • My scores crash if I've had a hard workout!


     


    How's everyone doing?


     


    I've not really seen too much improvement over the last few months. Ups and downs. Still doing 10 mins (11.:17 to be exact) twice a day, but have missed a few sessions here and there. Normally get around 250-500pts in a 10mins session on level 3. Peaks around 8.5 with an average of 3.5-5.0 I reckon. Still think I'm getting the benefits, but not really improving loads.


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • Do you look at the low score as an indication that you're training too hard or do you just power through longer emWave sessions to try and recover faster? 


     


    I had my 1st big dip after drinking bourbon one night - took me 3 days to get back to baseline - I told myself not to drink bourbon again for a while.  Am I reading too much into these results or am I using this thing properly?


  • katolotuskatolotus ✭✭✭

    My coherence has been in the pan the last couple of weeks. HRV is good, I feel good, have lost some weight, but my scores and coherence are a lot lower. Some times I struggle to get into the green on Level 3 now. Either the cold I'm fighting off, Drinking more coffee in the morning, while trying/losing weight for my fight. Or something else. Minds pretty busy with work and the fight, so might be that too.


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • JamesJames
    edited March 2014

    I'm about 3 months into playing with my IB sensor and thought I would chime in.  


     


     


    My proudest HRV moment is here:  http://i.imgur.com/snCxson.jpg


     


    My HRV username is "Willsonjc"


     


     


    Also my first 95% on level 3 today:  http://i.imgur.com/lwmqftq.jpg?1


     


    I'm waiting until regularly getting in the 85% range before moving up to level 4.  


     


     


     


    **Edit to ask a question:  Has anyone used a coach or signed up for one of those instructor certifications we all get emails about every day?  How about hard concrete benefits?  I like using my sensor, and I think that I perform better on my daily tasks when I make an effort to train, but I would be very hard pressed to point to a clear direct benefit. 


  • katolotuskatolotus ✭✭✭

    How long each day are you doing. At best I was doing two 10 minute session getting 500+ pts. So was on 1,000-a-day pts average.


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • I'm not quite that consistent.  Ideally I do a session in the morning, at night, and at least once around lunch.  In practice I do 5-10 minute sessions whenever I need a break from work, which is about twice a day.  I also go days at a time with nothing occasionally.  I definitely find that I can get into coherence more quickly when I'm more consistent.  The 24 hour record thing was mostly just a conscious choice.  I probably did 10 sessions that day just because I knew I could get on the board if I decided to.  I think nearly anyone could if they just picked a day and dedicated it to HRV.  


     


     


    I am starting to notice that my coherence scores are better the day after a carb re-feed.  Anyone else notice that?  I am generally in deep ketosis for about 2 weeks at a time, and then a re-feed or (unfortunately) a wild cheat day.  Even after a wild cheat day my coherence seems to be better.  I've only noticed this about 3 times, so it's not solid data yet.  Anyone else notice similar?

  • edited April 2014

    I'm glad I saw this thread. This might be the motivation that I need to get back using that app again. Haven't used it in over three days. 


     


    I'll tell you guys a little story. When I was 25 years old I went into a Buddhist wat. I saw man wearing orange robes and I asked him to teach me how to meditate. I had been reading a lot of books about the subject but was never quite sure if I was doing it correctly. He said "no problem" he then walked me over to a giant statue of Buddha instructed me to sit down he sat down beside me and we started meditating. Quite sometime in past and I opened my eyes and I turned towards him he looked at me and said "there you go". We got up he started walking me towards the door and told me I could come back anytime I wanted. We meditated for over an hour and it was by far the longest session I had ever had and the most satisfying session I have ever had but because he gave me no instruction, because he didn't tell me I had done a good job at the end of it I still felt disappointed. I never went back. I get it, in an eastern philosophy kind of way I shouldn't need any rigid instructions or congratulations but with my scorekeeping type "A" western mentality I need this scorecard.


     


    I love this app. I don't know why I took a break from it. I'm going to get back on it.

  • Okay since the last time I posted I went back and read all of your guys post. At the risk of being laughed off the forum I thought I could share some stuff with you guys that might help. 


     


    If you do a Google search for "most relaxing song ever" you will get Marconi Union's "Weightless". I first read about this in popular science magazine and after doing a little more research on it it turns out the study that was done is kind of hokey but nevertheless the song is very relaxing. Popular science magazine advises you not to listen to this song while you're driving. I use it for the theme music for while I'm meditating and I wear earbuds while doing that so that I can hear the subtle heartbeat that is in the background on the song. 


     


    I like to use this picture for the inspirational screen. It's from the bulletproof HRV sense app. Purposely chose the green image to go along with color theme for high coherency. Helps to remind me to breathe into my heart for the obvious reasons. You will notice it's upside down that is because like a lot of you I do my meditation while lying on my back. I hold the phone on my belly with my fingers interlaced using my thumbs to support the phone while it is upside down. This allows the cable to come out from the top and helps me to hold the phone without any effort. It also puts the breathing pacer at the top.


     


    On a side note: I actually wrote the inner balance people and explain to them that they needed to create the breathing pacer that looks like a heart to help remind people to breathe into their heart. I then explained that I wanted to use their default breathing pacer to put on a T-shirt so that I could associate that image with that part of my body. They wrote me back and said my ideas were okay (OKAY!) But that I could not sell that T-shirt because that image is trademarked. As it is now I think I want to use this image on a T-shirt for the same reasons. I have no intention of selling it.


  • Shawro - I am curious if you do any belly breathing while doing HRV training.  It sounds like you have significant meditation experience and in my own limited meditation experience we've always used deep belly breathing, almost the opposite of heart breathing.  Do you have any insight into this?


     


    Also congratulations on the amazing high score!  


  • James… once again at the risk of being laughed at… Long time ago, when I was really serious about trying to meditate on a regular basis, I liked to imagine the air that I was breathing changing in to a golden healing mist as it hit my nose then filling up my belly. I thought this would help me focus on the diaphragm breathing and give me a sense of well-being at the same time. When I first tried this app I tried applying the same technique but I think I get higher coherency scores when I think about filling up my heart and lungs. I also like to think of it now as a green mist (coherency green... I think that is my new favorite color. Like to think of it as the green healing power of plants. You can stop laughing now.) It is a really light background thought to my meditation.


     


    The original belly breathing technique that I used almost completely isolated all my breathing movement to my stomach. The new technique that I'm using gets nearly equal amount of movement out of my chest and my stomach.


     


    The other thing that has helped me a lot with this app is increasing the amount of time for each breathing cycle. I've noticed that if I time each breath to the edge of uncomfortable (not quite uncomfortable) that it's harder to think about anything else while I am breathing. To rephrase that, I have set the breathing pacer to 15, after that I start to struggle. 


     


    And I'd like to address this to everybody in this thread... Has anybody tried the breathing technique mentioned here?:


     


    http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/9919-most-exciting-recovery-hack-ever-this-is-genious/?hl=breathing


     


    It seems like the breathing pacer for this app would fit in nicely to that technique.


  • So weird thing kind of occurred to me just a little bit ago… I did a Google image search for "chakras". Honest guys I really didn't know before I posted that last post. You should look for yourselves. Similarities are impressive.


  • Seems like a lot of controversy in that thread in general, but the gist is 5 seconds in, 5 seconds out, hold for 10 to try and increase the concentration of CO2 in the blood.  It's easy and free to try at least.  


     


    I'm going to stick with my inner balance breathing until I'm steady at level 4 before doing much else. 


  • My last two sessions have been sitting up. The breathing pacer this set way too slow while I'm sitting up. I'm struggling to breathe that slow. I never would've guessed the difference between laying on my back and sitting up. I think that is why my coherency is fluctuating right at the edge of blue. But I have managed to set a new peak coherency.


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