Straight Dope On Hgh, Steroids, And Igf-1?

Anyone know a good source or have advice on the debates and information surrounding the use of androgenic anabolic steroids, human growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor, and any other associated drugs/supplements/steroids/hormones?


 


There are certain benefits, as I understand to having a good amount of muscle mass (cancer survival rates, etc.), as well as the social benefits (social-hacking anyone?)... but then there's the potential risks, e.g. - heart attack at age 50.


 


So, what are the major points in the debate (oh, how I wish there was a debate wiki, so I could catch-up on the various debates going on... *goes to Google to see if there is one* - Debatepedia, hmm)?


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Comments

  • edited August 2013

    "So, what are the major points in the debate"


     


    -don't judge other people's personal choices, there is no such thing as "natty" (it is all just a spectrum)


    -if you choose to take restricted substances, do lots of blood work and start low


    -watch all the video clips at this link (particularly "and the dead ones")


    Reigning Former Inner Balance "Mad Monk" Champion... :-P 

  • Start your research with this - http://www.amazon.com/Anabolics-E-Book-Edition-ebook/dp/B005II5Z7M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377885137&sr=8-1&keywords=anabolics


     


    Go from there. Seriously though, that's the bible on the subject.


  • edited September 2013


    Anyone know a good source or have advice on the debates and information surrounding the use of androgenic anabolic steroids, human growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor, and any other associated drugs/supplements/steroids/hormones?


     


    There are certain benefits, as I understand to having a good amount of muscle mass (cancer survival rates, etc.), as well as the social benefits (social-hacking anyone?)... but then there's the potential risks, e.g. - heart attack at age 50.


     


    So, what are the major points in the debate (oh, how I wish there was a debate wiki, so I could catch-up on the various debates going on... *goes to Google to see if there is one* - Debatepedia, hmm)?






    On what debate?  There's countless 'debates' on the subject.  And this 'debate wiki' you're looking for exists, they're referred to as message boards ;)


    Check wannabebig's anabolic subforum for some good, general, grounded discussion on the basics.  Check mind/muscle for esoteric stuff.  Patrick Arnold and Conte for ethics.


  • Some of the negative side effects, assuming everything with the administration of the hormones is done 100 percent correctly -


     


    Testicular atrophy (reversible... but still happens)


    Tendon/ligament damage due to strength increasing at an unnatural rate


    Loss of libido while on cycle


    Psychological effects of getting big and strong while on cycle, then losing a portion while off cycle, creating a habitual need to keep doing it. This is one of the biggest down sides, and what makes it psychologically addicting. Most guys say they'll just do one or two cycles, and here they are 20 years later and still doing it.


     


    Forgetting all of the other obstacles, like making sure you're getting legit drugs, they are what they say they are and they aren't laced with something else, they don't have contaminants or heavy metals, you create your cycle correctly and have a good PCT, you have the proper lab work done during cycle and you administer everything 100 percent correctly, when you come off you will still lose a significant portion of what you worked for, can you handle that?


  • edited September 2013

    Don't know how I missed this thread.


     


     


    "Better living through intelligence and chemistry".


     


    That pretty much sums up my view.


    I absolutely agree with Mr.Smith that life is a spectrum of Perceived Value.


     


    Main points?


    This is YOUR life. You have YOUR goals, and YOUR values.


    Only YOU can decide what ACTIONS move you closer to or further away from your goals/values.


     


    Ok, now that we have gotten the not so obvious out of the way....


     


    Take the time to get a good source...it out there.


    If I think your intelligent I will at least get you started in the right direction.


     


    Intelligent use of Anabolics and HGH/I-gf1 definitely have positive contributions.


    Again the key word is "intelligent".


     


    Desp puts out some good points.


     


    "Testicular atrophy (reversible... but still happens) Yes, defnitely reversible.


    Tendon/ligament damage due to strength increasing at an unnatural rate Keep your movements controlled. It's not called "throwing weights", it's "lifting" weights.


    Use a tempo of no faster than 3-4 seconds up, contract for 1 sec, 3 sec. down and you will have no problems with joints or ligaments. Do you have the discipline to do this or is your ego or that hot chick in yoga pants going to make you throw it?


     


     


    Loss of libido while on cycle  (Done right it is quite the opposite)


    Psychological effects of getting big and strong while on cycle, then losing a portion while off cycle, creating a habitual need to keep doing it. This is one of the biggest down sides, and what makes it psychologically addicting. Most guys say they'll just do one or two cycles, and here they are 20 years later and still doing it.


    Again, this will depend to a large extent on where your self esteem comes from. If you have low self esteem, no other solid source for self worth other than the size of your body then, like money, this will may only serve to exacerbate your current paradigms. If however, you have the philosophy that does not BASE your self worth on the size of your muscles, you will be fine.


    Understand that building your body is like any mental skill or process of mastery. 2 steps forward, 1 step back.


    Again, understand why you are pursuing this avenue. Does it fit into your overall lifestyle? I don't know.


    Balanced, intelligent moderation is paramount...period.


    Ask if this implementation is an end in itself, or is it an addition to your pursuit of your overall ideal of success, which should take into account the quality of  


    family, relationships, finances, health and fitness, personal/intellectual goals, material goals, spiritual goals, experiences, etc.


    If this decision in anyway overly impedes on any other of these areas then maybe it is not the correct decision. On the other hand, if it does not take away from any of these areas, and increases even one or many of these areas then maybe the subject is worth further exploration/education.


     


    Spend as much time off, as you do on...cycle on and off and let your body stay in the loop.


    There is amazing information on how to radically increase the health of your body on and off cycle.


    Including the use of intelligent and strategical use of HGH/igf-1 on your "off time".


    But that is a whole other discussion.


     


    Here is an unbiased news report on the use of Anabolics.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TkKKOK9pDw


     


    P.S. I do not personally endorse the use of AAS unless you are 30+years old or tests show you have naturally low test levels. 


    Holy shit I'm awesome.

  • Carter, how do you monitor your blood tests?


  • Also anyone interested in this topic should check out the Joe Rogan podcast with Victor Conte. 99% of every major league athlete uses something.


  • RodRod The Rodfather


    Also anyone interested in this topic should check out the Joe Rogan podcast with Victor Conte. 99% of every major league athlete uses something.




     


    Yea, I don't blame them. I'll use something too but perhaps something safer. I want to try some Pangamic Acid

    Everything I learned about "biohacking" has been baby steps to "circadian biology", that's where the real biohacking comes in. You can buy a bunch of cool shit to "hack" but if you don't have context, you're not winning. Paleo is just a brand now and too many have opinions, it's on you to read and reread the material to not only find truth but to connect the dots. Much love to everyone who has helped me on my journey for restoring my health, please keep in touch. Feel free to message me with health questions [email protected] 

  • edited September 2013


    Carter, how do you monitor your blood tests?


    I get them checked Desp, pre, during and post.

    I don't do anything crazy. Im not stepping on stage or playing professional sports for a living so no need to push limits. I don't compete with anyone else but myself so I don't have to play by anyone's else's rules. I keep away from any hepatotoxic options and am very moderate in what i do use. I use for increased quality of life and it fits my lifestyle.

    I'm fine with most people having anabolics brushed with a broad stroke of negativity. Imo it's better that way:)

    Like anything, it's a risk/reward ratio, and where intelligence and temperament are titraded into the equation the balance tips in the favor of reward and reduces risk.

    Just my 2 billion.

    Holy shit I'm awesome.

  • Yea, I don't blame them. I'll use something too but perhaps something safer. I want to try some Pangamic Acid








    Despite serious safety concerns, pangamic acid is used for improving exercise endurance; treating asthma and related diseases, skin conditions including eczema, lung problems, painful nerve and joint conditions, cancer, and arthritis; improving the oxygenation of the heart, brain, and other vital organs; and “detoxifying” the body. It is also used for treating alcoholism, hangovers, and fatigue; protecting against urban air pollutants; extending cell life; strengthening the immune system; lowering blood cholesterol levels; and assisting in hormone regulation.


    How does it work?

    Since there is no standard identity for the chemicals in pangamic acid, how it might work is unknown. Although pangamic acid is also called vitamin B15, there is no research that shows it is required by the body, as the term “vitamin” would suggest.




    Interesting.

    Holy shit I'm awesome.



  •  


    If I think your intelligent 




     


    lol ;)


     





    I'm fine with most people having anabolics brushed with a broad stroke of negativity. Imo it's better that way:)

     




     


    How on earth are you okay with most people brushing aside something that you find enhances quality of life?  I'm all for (rational)selfishness, but damn..


     


     




    Yea, I don't blame them. I'll use something too but perhaps something safer. I want to try some Pangamic Acid




     


    Never heard of it, and the wiki page is about as scathing as I've ever seen a nutritional compuond entry... were you being serious or is my sarcastimeter broken?

  • RodRod The Rodfather

    No, I'm dead serous!


     


    It was banned because the Russians used it in the olympics and smoked everyone. 


     


    http://www.askdrgarland.com/?p=378


     


     


    Actually, Calcium D Glucurate and DMG make Pangamic Acid in the body. 


     


    http://www.onlineholistichealth.com/supplements-2/vitamins/vitamin-b15-pangamic-acid.html


    Everything I learned about "biohacking" has been baby steps to "circadian biology", that's where the real biohacking comes in. You can buy a bunch of cool shit to "hack" but if you don't have context, you're not winning. Paleo is just a brand now and too many have opinions, it's on you to read and reread the material to not only find truth but to connect the dots. Much love to everyone who has helped me on my journey for restoring my health, please keep in touch. Feel free to message me with health questions [email protected] 



  • No, I'm dead serous!


     


    It was banned because the Russians used it in the olympics and smoked everyone. 


     


    http://www.askdrgarland.com/?p=378


     


     


    Actually, Calcium D Glucurate and DMG make Pangamic Acid in the body. 


     


    http://www.onlineholistichealth.com/supplements-2/vitamins/vitamin-b15-pangamic-acid.html




     


     


     


    Why have I never heard of this?


     


    Research also suggests that DMG is beneficial in the healing of skin disorders, circulatory insufficiencies, epilepsy, migraines, tension headaches, vascular headaches, autoimmune diseases, asthma, and allergies.


     


    And why aren't you taking it already?

  • You haven't heard of it because it somehow managed to remain elusive for so long, or because it's worthless.  Hopefully you can arrive at the proper conclusion.. 


     


    Rod- you link to some quack site.  Could you provide me a single, positive, *legit* reference?  I mean that article you link has some dude telling you it's the holy grail, and he doesn't list a single reference at the end; that is the hallmark of 'suspect' in this industry.




  • You haven't heard of it because it somehow managed to remain elusive for so long, or because it's worthless.  Hopefully you can arrive at the proper conclusion.. 


     


    Rod- you link to some quack site.  Could you provide me a single, positive, *legit* reference?  I mean that article you link has some dude telling you it's the holy grail, and he doesn't list a single reference at the end; that is the hallmark of 'suspect' in this industry.




     


    Either that is it's because it DOES work, and the FDA has banned it (which they have).

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