Bloodwork On 3 Months Of Bp Diet, High Ldl-P :(

edited October 2013 in The Bulletproof Diet

I've been on BP diet for 3 months very strict now. Eating a lot of quality fats. Got an NMR Lipoprofile done yesterday. Here are the results:


 


LDL-P: 1496 nmol/L


LDL-C (calc): 157 mg/dL


HDL-C: 66 mg/dL


Triglyc: 39 mg/dL


Total Chol: 231 mg/dL


 


 


I haven't ever had an NMP Lipoprofile done in the past, but here is my standard lipid profile from a year ago when I was on low-fat paleo:


 


LDL-P: never measured


LDL-C (calc): 106 mg/dL


HDL-C: 61 mg/dL


Triglyc: 34 mg/dL


Total Chol: 174 mg/dL


 


So it looks like my LDL went up significantly. It went from Low to Borderline High. I'm a 28 year old male. And high LDL-P is the #1 proven cause of heart disease. So it looks like BP diet is not healthy for me and I have to discontinue eating butter, oil, bacon, etc.


 


Right now I eat lots of chocolate, kerry's gold, eggs, bacon, grass fed steak, wild alaskan salmon, olive oil, spinach, arugala, tomatoes, whey concenrate, and frozen organic berries. That has been my diet now for the last 3 months. I prepare all of my meals so I know everything I've been eating for the last 3 months.


 


Very disappointing. This is conclusive proof to me that Bulletproof does NOT work, as least for my physiology. You might be losing weight, but that doesn't mean you are healthy.


 


Thoughts? Anyone had similar results? What did you do?


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Comments

  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    I had similar results to yours recently. Its such a complex subject! I've been learning more about it but the more I learn the more I find that I need to learn!


     


    One thing I was reading into was that eating lots of fat requires lots of bile to help digest the fat. What's bile made from? Cholesterol. Your body makes most of the cholesterol that floats around your blood. The cholesterol we eat doesn't really account for much of it.


     


    The bile acids get recycled so I wonder if that could be why our cholesterol numbers go up on the BP diet? It is of course a lot more complex than that though!


     


    Did you get your CRP numbers?


  • edited October 2013

    No, never tested for CRP before. I suppose I should.


     


    Bile or no bile, I don't like those LDL numbers. It also doesn't make sense to eat so much fat. Human beings did not evolve eating 60% fat diets. And Eskimos aren't a good counter-example. I ain't an Eskimo. It just doesn't make sense from multiple persepectives.


     


    I will be switching to the following diet:


     


    35% veggies and fruits


    35% fat


    30% protein


     


    It just makes sense to eat more veggies! I will try that for 3 months or so and test again. Hopefully I can get my LDL back in line and keep my mood and performance high.


  • edited October 2013

    Actually there are two different kinds of ldl. ldla and ldlb, the ldla is large and doesn't contribute to heart disease while the ldlb does. The cholesterol that our bodies produce when we eat healthy fats is ldla. I think most of us on the forum have high cholesterol because we all eat tons of healthy fats. Don't worry about it, the studies done that claim ldl cholesterol causes heart disease were slanted so that the pharmaceutical companies could sell statins and so the food industry could sell low fat foods. Statins are supposed to lower cholesterol but every study done on them show that they have little to no effect on cholesterol and that they did not reduce the percentages of heart disease at all. Lipitor is a statin and one highest grossing drug being prescibed in America today. It makes a ridiculous amount of money. The best indicator of high heart disease risk in relation to cholesterol is your triglycerides to hdl ratio, if it's under 2 you're good, if it's 4 or over then you have a problem


  • edited October 2013

    From what I've read, particle size does not correlate with heart disease, but LDL-P (particle number does).


     


    http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-v


  • Check this out:


    http://www.bulletproofexec.com/calcium-d-glucarate/


     


    Point 4 adresses your problem.


  • "You might be losing weight, but that doesn't mean you are healthy." 


     


    There are holes in your analysis.


     


    Did you lose weight, specifically fat?  Rapid fat loss has been known to mess with lipid panels.  If that's the case get another panel after you've become weight stable.  Other things that mess with LDL levels are injuries, illness, and stress.


     


    You said your LDL-C went from low risk to high, but I contend your levels went from worthless to worthless, since LDL-C is mostly worthless.  For all you know your LDL-P went from high to borderline high or stayed the same.  You don't have the data to make any conclusions.


     


    And LDL-P is not "the #1 proven cause of heart disease".  We don't have "proven" causes.  It would take too long and cost too much money to run clinical trials on humans.  The #1 predictor of heart disease is a calcium scan.  The #1 bloodwork predictor with the TG/HDL-C ration according to Peter Attia, who you reference in one of your post


     


    Also I think Eskimos are a great counter argument.  9 month out of the year 90% of their calories come from fat.  So they have a lot of fat in their diet, and they also have a lot of snow.  Since they have 152 words for snow you would think they would have at least one or two for heart disease, but they don't.  And it's because they don't get heart attacks (with their natural diet) because dietary fat doesn't cause heart disease.  And since heart attacks would happen after their children become grown you can't use an argument that survival of the fittest wiped out those with the heart attack genes.


     


    I'm not saying high fat is for everyone one.  If you do better on a lower fat version of paleo then do that.  My point is a borderline high LDL-P does not mean you are not healthy, especially if you've been losing fat and especially since to don't have a reference point to compare it to.

  • edited October 2013

    @Bok, thanks for the supplement link. I never heard of it before.


     


    @Tracker2208,


     


    - I didn't lose any weight. My weight has been steady at 11% body fat for years now. I was talking about the oft-touted benefits of Bulletproof.


     


    - Injury, stress, illness? Nope. We could contort ourselves looking for arcane causes, or point to the elephant in the room >> ridiculously high fat diet


     


    - I don't have past LDL-P, but I'm willing to bet it was lower because my LDL-P seems to correlate to my LDP-C. The fact is my LDL went up and my overall cholesterol went up, and my HDL didn't improve much. It would be reckless of me to dismiss my elevated LDL-P as, "Oh, well... we 100% KNOW a high saturated fat diet is good, so the LDL-P and LDL-C doesn't really matter". Really? Then I would have to ask, what could ever possibly disprove the Bulletproof diet? It seems that any evidence oftered against it is excused in one way or another. I remember Dave touting his awesome cholesterol numbers. Well I don't see that. Maybe it works for him, but it doesn't work for me. I want my LDL-P to be under 1000. I'm only 28 years old, I'm healthy, I exercise, and I eat very clean. WTF?


     


    - Who knows what Eskimos are doing? They are a specialized race living in extreme conditions that has nothing to do with me. I will base my diet on the more normal hunter-gather tribes. It is very possible that Eskimos evolved to eat high fat, or the fat they eat is different than the fat I eat, or any number of other causes.


     


    Proponents of Bulletproof need to offer clear conditions under which the diet could be disproven, otherwise it's just confirmation bias run amok. If I eat low-fat and lower my LDL-P to under 1000 in 3 months, would that prove that Bulletproof is unhealthy? In my mind it would. And I will attempt exactly that.


     


    I know this sounds crazy, but maybe all these people with elevated LDL on high-fat paleo diets are actually proof that it's unhealthy? No, no, that can't possibly be true. Let's look for some arcane reason high LDL-P is actually healthy. Cause there is no way that eating a stick of butter every morning could possibly be unhealthy *facepalm*


     


    It's very easy to cherrypick confirming evidence. Science is about falsifaction, not verification. You don't try to prove a theory, you try to disprove it. And in my case I seem to have found some convincing disproof. My brother got a similar increase in LDL a few months ago following Bulletproof as well.


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress
    There are so many posts in this forum about people's concerns with their LDL numbers. I think Dave is doing Bulletproof a disservice if he doesn't pay attention to that and do a blog post or Q&A podcast to explain how cholesterol works, what happens to it when you eat bulletproof, and give references. There is an overwhelming mainstream thinking that cholesterol is bad news. We all need to know more about it. I've done research but it's a really complex subject to tackle.
  • bokbok
    edited October 2013

    I agree. The cholesterol thing is the first counter-argument that I get when I tell others about Bulletproof Coffee. Most of the time I fail to defend it because because I don't exactly know much about it. Hopefully he'll do an article about how cholesterol is affected by the Bulletproof Diet and when or if people have to worry about it.

  • edited October 2013

    To me, personal bloodtests and how your body feels, trumps all studies. Studies are generic and show averaged results. The only reason to use them is to show that some diet might be worthwhile to personally test, but then you have to go and test it and see if it works for you. You can show me all the studies in the world, but if my LDL-P goes up 50% from 3 months of Bulletproof AND high LDL-P is correlated with heart disease (which seems to be the case), then it's no good.


     


    The question is, would you rather have an LDL-P of 800 or 1400? And if you want the lower number, now you must adjust your diet accordingly. I haven't seen any evidence that even remotely suggests that an LDL-P of 1400 is healthy. So why risk it? Just to backwards rationalize being on BP?


     


    I have this sense that BP appeals to the iconoclast within us that wants to say, "I eat this unconventional diet and it's healthy." There's a shock-value there when you tell people you drink butter every morning. Cool, BUT IS IT ACTUALLY HEALTHY? My health is too important to me to let ego guide my diet.


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress
    I agree. The thing (for me anyway) is not knowing whether say 800 or 1400 is healthy because I don't know what those particles are for or why my body is creating so many of them. I don't know enough to want either number. Understanding that will trump studies too.
  • Does anyone know how Dave keeps his cholesterol healthy? Had he explained in an article or podcast?

  • I think he calls it the bulletproof diet, when your hdl is super high and inflammation is super low there's not really anything else to think about.




    I agree Jason but then again idk what I'm talking about. I know what I've read and I believe ldl levels don't matter but I have no idea really. I was really just asking for a rebuttal to what the person who started this thread was arguing.
  • I have recently had similar conversations with my physician because he was concerned about my cholesterol numbers despite being sympathetic to the paleo diet. My LDL-C is 193 and that is driving my total cholesterol close to 300.


     


    He thinks that the hypothesis the dietary fat causes high cholesterol causes heart disease is oversimplified. However, he also thinks that it would be a mistake to ignore rising numbers as certain individual factors can affect risk of heart disease, most importantly family history and age.


     


    He took an ultrasound machine and scanned my arteries for any plaque and found none. He also agreed to run an advanced cholesterol panel in a few months agreeing that inflammation markers and size of LDL particles are probably the most important biomarkers.


     


    I am halfway through Cholesterol Clarity by Jimmy Moore. So far, my understanding is that cholesterol numbers can (probably will) go up on a high fat diet. But, that is only a matter of concern if your inflammation markers are also high and if there evidence that some of this cholesterol is getting deposited in arteries. He also provides examples of people (and studies) that have had heart attacks despite having 'healthy' cholesterol levels. So, the evidence is murky, at best.

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