Ketogenic/if Diet For Crossfit/olympic Lifting?

edited November 2013 in Physical Performance

I'm a CrossFitter + Olympic Lifter.  I want to get super freaking strong and also super freaking fit.  It seems like most of the postcasts and discussion is around using the bulletproof diet for fat loss, healthy living, and greater energy. I'm not really interested in fat loss, since I already only have around 6-8% body fat (at 5'11", 180lbs).  And of course, I want to live my life with crap-tons of energy and enthusiasm.  But my main goal is to prepare for the CrossFit games in March (and therefore increase strength, and dominate metcon workouts).  My questions relate to whether the ketogenic and/or IF diet is right for me, and when do optimally position my workouts.  Here is a quick rundown of what I'm doing.


 


  • I work out 5 days a week (3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off).
  • 3 of these days, I do 2-a-day workouts, with strength/accessory work in the morning (ex: Wed: 5x5 Back Squat;  Thurs: 10 minutes of 5 weighted pullups and 5 weighted dips; Sat: 4x4 snatch pulls, 4x4 push press), and CrossFit metcon + Snatch/C&J work in the evening.
  • 1 day, I do exclusively Olympic lifting (ex: work to 1RM for Snatch and C&J, 3RM Front Squat, 4x4 Clean pulls)
  • 1 day, I do static contraction training for strength

 


Example of diet during a day with 2 workouts:


  • 5:30: coffee + butter (getting BPC tomorrow!), BCAA
  • 6:00: strength workout (5x5 Back Squat)
  • 7:00-12:00: fluids, wheat grass extract
  • 12:00: 1 oz almonds, 1/2 avocado, 15g protein (Phormula-1)
  • 2:30: 4 eggs, coconut oil, 2 cups veggies, 2 slices bacon, coffee + butter
  • 4:30: BCAA
  • 5:00: CrossFit (ex: 5 rounds for time: 20 wall balls, 20 chest-to-bars), Oly Lifting (7 rounds, every 2 minutes, 3 snatches at 85% 1RM)
  • 6:30: 30g protein (Phormula-1), 1 egg, 1 cup almond milk, 1 tbsp chia seeds, 2 fish oil pills
  • 8:30: 3.5 oz grass-fed beef or wild salmon, 1 tbsp butter/coconut oil, 2 cups veggies, 1 oz almonds

 


Questions:


  1. Based on my performance goals, is a ketogenic diet right for me?  Should I add more carbs in the evening like sweet potatoes to make up for my training volume to build muscle/strength?
  2. Is some form of intermittent fast right for me?  Since I workout in the AM, should I be fasting after to increase growth hormone spike, or eating protein and fat (and even carbs) afterward to refuel?
  3. Assuming an intermittent fast is beneficial, should I do CrossFit in the morning or the evening?

Any and all help would be super appreciated!  10 bonus points for links to data references!


"Let him that would move the world first move himself." ~ Socrates

Comments

  • cyroth


     


    I don't have any answers but have similar questions. I am not interested in necessarily losing body fat ( I'm 5' 9" 140-135lbs). The range in weight is because I sweat a lot during workouts and typically lose up to 5 pounds of sweat on my longer, harder workouts.


     


    I train Muay Thai 4-5 days a week (a mix of cardio and explosive intervals), do my own xfit WODs up to 4 times a week, run long distance (4-6 miles) 1-2 times per week, do track work (sprints and fartleks) 1-2 times per week, and daily push and pullups.


     


    As a lifelong, grazer (eating all day) with a crazy high metabolism, I am drawn to ketosis for it's longer duration between fewer meals. Also, I would be curious if it improves my energy levels without crashing. In reality, I am open to just giving it a try but am wondering if there are any cautions regarding my low body fat and eclectic training. 


  • John Kiefer of carb backloading's diet is essentially a strict ketogenic diet with a carb load dinner after workouts (i think he works out 5 days a week), except he uses apple turnovers and ice cream instead of sweet potato. Im thinking he takes advantage of GLUT-4 or whatever, and that after a good work out you can eat whatever you want and not gain weight.


    Never Stop Moving: Progress in some aspect of your life everyday, move forward in it, whether it be your job, school, body, mind, or relationships. Constantly better yourself!

  • I generally go with the sweet potato after workouts and that seems to help wth recovery, but where does that leave me in terms of morning caloric intake? Should I still each nothing until around noon, eat bulletproof coffee, or just avoid high carb intake and actually go with both fat and protein?


    I've asked for a ketosis strip meter for Christmas to help with this, lol.

    "Let him that would move the world first move himself." ~ Socrates

  • Id think Jason above has the most experience in the forums with the bulletproof diet and intense exercise, but i read a lot from others as well. Including a lot of robb wolf and a little from john kiefer (carb backloading guy) and Ori Hofmeckler (warrior diet)


     


     


    by not having breakfast you are basically intermittent  fasting which shoots up growth hormone levels pretty high during the fast, and dave says that if you only eat fat, no carbs or protein, this does not break the fast (Bulletproof Intermittent Fasting). You can go with high fat and protein in the morning of course. Since your powerlifting and doing crossfit you definitely need carbs, but having them in the morning will spike insulin while your muscles glycogen stores have already been filled by your post workout and dinner, causing the glucose to be stored as fat. Read some of john kiefer's stuff on the carb nite solution or carb backloading. And some of ori hofmeklers stuff on the "warrior diet" they are both based on IM fasting and eating little during the day and then binging at night. This is based on the the science behind glut-4 activation and empty glycogen stores in the right places i believe.


     


    Id assume a good routine would be to do the bulletproof IM fasting, and keep a strict paleo ketosis diet, expect carb load after workouts with paleo foods. Best if you workout in the evening, so after you workout chug some protein (id say vital whey is the best buy) and coconut water, and then lots of fast digesting carbs such as fruit smoothies or a paleo dessert. then have your grassfed beef/salmon with sweet potatoe for dinner. The supplement list recommended by dave also does well for balancing hormones. the only thing i am not a fan of is the elimination of certain spices and sauces for fear of mycotoxins, in my experience the more i limited them, the more sensitive I was to them and the blander my food. (for example:make the recipes in the upgraded chef book... I thought they tasted bland)


     


    Oh and ketosis strips are 15 dollars at walgreens, but they can unreliable since mct oil is digested into ketones, and you can get a free ketosis meter online from the manufacturer, reason being is that the test strips are like 6$ a pop (and thats for the cheaper ones)


    Never Stop Moving: Progress in some aspect of your life everyday, move forward in it, whether it be your job, school, body, mind, or relationships. Constantly better yourself!

  • Austin, this is awesome. Thanks for this in depth post. I'll check out those ketone meters online. The last couple weeks I've been experimenting as well with cold thermogenesis as well. Cold shower in the morning and a cold ice bath post workout between my protein shake and dinner. Jack Kruse mentions it's necessary to switch diet as well as a result of that. I've basically cut out everything except , coffee, oil and the wheat grass extract until post workout.

    "Let him that would move the world first move himself." ~ Socrates



  • Austin, this is awesome. Thanks for this in depth post. I'll check out those ketone meters online. The last couple weeks I've been experimenting as well with cold thermogenesis as well. Cold shower in the morning and a cold ice bath post workout between my protein shake and dinner. Jack Kruse mentions it's necessary to switch diet as well as a result of that. I've basically cut out everything except , coffee, oil and the wheat grass extract until post workout.




    =============


    Np man!

    Like I said, ketone meter is free, but the strips are expensive


    It does look like the price may have gone down though!


    https://storefront.novacares.com/storefront/


    Maybe just use it to train yourself on how to get in and out of ketosis, its easy for me because I get a metallic taste in my mouth whenever im keto. I am also into cold thermogenesis. The science is there, however; I dont believe cold showers do anything, at least not by themselves. After Christmas break I will be following Jack Kruse cold thermo protocol exactly. And then once cold adapted properly, only taking ice baths on days that I dont lift. Reason being: 1 Ice baths are awesome, 2.its not uber convenient to sit in a tub for an hour everyday and combining that with going to the gym and half the day is gone, and 3. ice baths speed recovery and once cold adapted you only need them around 3 times a week to keep the benefits.

    Never Stop Moving: Progress in some aspect of your life everyday, move forward in it, whether it be your job, school, body, mind, or relationships. Constantly better yourself!

  • Cyroth -- been doing crossfit since the start... I'm a masters competitor.. this will be my 3rd year for open. I was IF'ing during traininig last year and have continued-- generally good results. I dieted a little too hard in addition to IF during prep last year and felt a little weak, but my bodyweight exercises like Mups benefited.


     


    I think you are generally on track, but you do need to carb reload, especially after METCONs.. -- you fuel your body for the next day by replenishing glycogen (carbs) after your workout--- so, if you don't feel the energy the next day, you may have not replenished enough the day before. I don't feel a need to megadose protein after WOD.


     


    If you start to feel overtrained, you can come off of the strength stuff a bit in preparation for the open, which is METCON.. then if you make regionals cycle the strength hard--- if you do all 5x5 you'll get tired -- how old are you? I would cycle the strength using Wendler.. maybe conjugate if you have a good trainer. Are you WODing in a box?


     


    I just posted about my Rhabdo-- make sure you are hitting the hyrdration!


     


    Supplement wise--- most folks would also use creatine and L-glutamine-- BP rapid weight loss supplement regime is good guidance-- not the diet for you


     


    Don't be too mechanical--- you have a good program--- If you feel like you need to eat or sleep -- do it. Analyze your WOD performance and adjust your program. Not everyone can IF and perform-- just eat whatever BP your body craves and you have a 90% solution.


     


    Good luck!


  • What Yamabu is describing is carb-back loading. If you work out at night do i with high glycemic foods such as sweet potatoes and waxy white rice or white potato.  If you really feel like cheating you could get away with eating fruity pebbles without exposing yourself to gluten since its rice derived. Ive been reading a lot into this, it takes advantage of the tGluts to replenish glycogen directly into muscle while avoiding fat increase at all costs. I am starting to believe that this is a great way to increase muscle and lean down to look good and feel good, but for endurance sports I suspect it might hinder performance. Yamabu is way more qualified to answer this, but carb back-loading is more for aesthetics where as a diet like the zone is more for performance.


    I also think Beta Alanine is a must have supplement for crossfit, along with your glutamine and creatine.


     




    Cyroth -- been doing crossfit since the start... I'm a masters competitor.. this will be my 3rd year for open. I was IF'ing during traininig last year and have continued-- generally good results. I dieted a little too hard in addition to IF during prep last year and felt a little weak, but my bodyweight exercises like Mups benefited.


     


    I think you are generally on track, but you do need to carb reload, especially after METCONs.. -- you fuel your body for the next day by replenishing glycogen (carbs) after your workout--- so, if you don't feel the energy the next day, you may have not replenished enough the day before. I don't feel a need to megadose protein after WOD.


     


    If you start to feel overtrained, you can come off of the strength stuff a bit in preparation for the open, which is METCON.. then if you make regionals cycle the strength hard--- if you do all 5x5 you'll get tired -- how old are you? I would cycle the strength using Wendler.. maybe conjugate if you have a good trainer. Are you WODing in a box?


     


    I just posted about my Rhabdo-- make sure you are hitting the hyrdration!


     


    Supplement wise--- most folks would also use creatine and L-glutamine-- BP rapid weight loss supplement regime is good guidance-- not the diet for you


     


    Don't be too mechanical--- you have a good program--- If you feel like you need to eat or sleep -- do it. Analyze your WOD performance and adjust your program. Not everyone can IF and perform-- just eat whatever BP your body craves and you have a 90% solution.


     


    Good luck!



    Never Stop Moving: Progress in some aspect of your life everyday, move forward in it, whether it be your job, school, body, mind, or relationships. Constantly better yourself!

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