Liver Flush

Dave has mentioned the olive oil/grapefruit juice liver flush. I searched the web but I didn't get concrete results. I would like step by step instructions with what to expect. Can you point me to a reliable source of information?
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Comments

  • Dave had posted a link in one of the show notes.



    Not sure I want to try this :?
  • Thanks very much!
  • So...if I were a binge-drinking, pizza guzzling frat-boy from ages 17-23...pretty good chance my liver is still damaged and not functioning properly 10 years later even though I'm down 50+ lbs from my peak and spent 3 yrs as an "endurance athlete"...who subsequently crashed with adrenal fatigue??? Oh yeah, and I was a sleep-deprived rotating shift-worker ages 28-30...6a-6p, then 6p-6a one day later...



    Should I nail this liver flush??


  • Dave has mentioned the olive oil/grapefruit juice liver flush. I searched the web but I didn't get concrete results. I would like step by step instructions with what to expect. Can you point me to a reliable source of information?




    www.sensiblehealth.com
  • DagothUrDagothUr
    edited July 2012
    'dpwdan' wrote:


    So...if I were a binge-drinking, pizza guzzling frat-boy from ages 17-23...pretty good chance my liver is still damaged and not functioning properly 10 years later even though I'm down 50+ lbs from my peak and spent 3 yrs as an "endurance athlete"...who subsequently crashed with adrenal fatigue??? Oh yeah, and I was a sleep-deprived rotating shift-worker ages 28-30...6a-6p, then 6p-6a one day later...



    Should I nail this liver flush??




    In general, I personally see no objective reasons for you to try it. You don’t seem to have any pains or other symptoms that may directly point to liver problems, associated with liver and gallbladder stones. If fatty liver is of concern, then it is most likely already resolved, considering you lost weight and assuming you are eating a bulletproof - paleo type of diet. Considering other information provided e.g. shift working, sleep deprivation. Adrenal fatigue is a viable possibility. Perhaps focus on this?
  • Check out book or videos with Andreas Moritz image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • edited August 2012
    I think I have to agree with DagothUr. Liver flush is usually prescribed and internal medicine course graduates believe it is best to ask the experts first. Well, if you wanna be sure the first time, try some DIYs of liver flush.
  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress
    Did anyone actually give this a try? I'm game, but I've read that its fake as the salts and oil create the stones that you crap out.
  • MaverickAzzMaverickAzz Powerful

    I call bullshit. You're just turning the olive oil into a soap with the magnesium salt. 


    No sorcery, just science. 

  • edited April 2013

    My wife and I did the flush a few weeks ago. 


    It was interesting.  If nothing else it definitely flushes your bowels.  :)


     


    The detox was originally made popular by a semi-crazy woman named Hulda Clark.


    Her instructions are on the web in many places but I found this to be the best because it has inline notes from the editor with research tied in.


     


    There are many books on Amazon touting the same protocol.  I read a ton of reviews/experiences for this one before sending my wife and I down this path.  At the end of the day I figured it couldn't hurt so we gave it a shot.  Isn't that what any good biohacker would do?


  • katolotuskatolotus ✭✭✭

    On the liver topic, someone mentioned to be that cause I take a lot of supplements (all bulletproofie) that it might be causing stress on my liver. Is there any truth in that. Only taking stuff recommended here. 


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • On the liver topic, someone mentioned to be that cause I take a lot of supplements (all bulletproofie) that it might be causing stress on my liver. Is there any truth in that. Only taking stuff recommended here. 


     


    I've heard Tim Ferriss say that too. Though he was talking about people who take 140+ pills a day. I take probably around 40-50. Even though I don't think 40-50 is dangerous I still might give this liver flush thing a shot some day.

  • katolotuskatolotus ✭✭✭

    I'm taking around 60 a day, which is a lot from a normal persons point of view.


     


    Any ideas of watch to watch out for regarding the liver struggling to cope?


    Katolotus

    MMA Fighter

     

    SUCCESS: A lot of little things done well

  • Does anyone have access to a good protocol for this type of liver flush?  I've read that you shouldn't use the epsom salts and I've also read you should.


     


    I've read there are resting/sleeping positions you should assume for periods of time, before & after eating protocols etc.


     


    Anyone know where I can learn more on what Dave recommends?


     


    Thanks!


  • edited May 2013

    Dave recommends this protocol http://www.betterbabybook.com/liver/.


    It's basically just like the original from Hulda Clark.  Don't worry about getting it perfect.  It will work regardless of sleeping position.  I sleep on my stomach and had no problems.


     


    If you spend too much time analyzing the experiences and opinions of others will paralyze your ability to take action. Just do it and see if you feel better after. And if you mess up the protocol it's no big deal; you'll have your own experience to work from the next time.


     


    Hack on!


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    Would it be possible to create the stones outside of the body somehow? Like putting all the ingredients in a plastic bag for a few hours?


     


    Either that or do it several times. If you do it one time and nothing comes out, then the stones weren't created by what you ate. If they never stop no matter how many times you do it, then that seems a little suspicious to me.


  • MaverickAzzMaverickAzz Powerful


    Would it be possible to create the stones outside of the body somehow? Like putting all the ingredients in a plastic bag for a few hours?


     


    Either that or do it several times. If you do it one time and nothing comes out, then the stones weren't created by what you ate. If they never stop no matter how many times you do it, then that seems a little suspicious to me.


     


     


    I was about to suggest EXACTLY the same thing.

    No sorcery, just science. 

  • edited May 2013

    I think external soap stone experiment makes a lot of sense.


    There's excellent discussion of the topic in the reviews of the book I posted from Amazon a couple posts back.


    Specifically this one from a soap maker


    I am a soapmaker by trade, and olive oil does NOT produce a bright green soap. Soap made from olive oil becomes a lovely creamy white shade.


     


    There are a ton of other reviews that mention the soap angle. Read through them here.


     


    My wife and I did the cleanse at the same time, in exactly the same manner.  i.e. - we were drinking the same ingredients at the exact same times. 


    She is 130 pounds at 5'8".  I'm 140 pounds at 5'10".


    I had significantly larger stones in higher quantitiy than her.  If I had to put a range I'd say 3-5x more.  Her largest were the size of a pea but most were the size of a quinoa grain.  My largest were the size of a grape with a high number of peas and the rest quinoa. 


     


    No conclusions to be made; just providing you more data.


  • Hi Jeremy! Did you feel better after the cleanse? Any sideeffects? Thanks for sharing :)


  • edited May 2013

    Hi Mia.


    No side affects.


    And, to be honest I didn't feel much different after, neither did my wife.  She probably won't do it again.  I'd like to do it 3 or 4 more times to see if the size and quantity of stones decrease.  In theory, if they are really being cleaned out of my system, they should right? 


     


    One observation I had after the liver cleanse was that I no longer have to pee in the middle of the night, even if I drink a lot of water before bed.  I'm not sure if this has anything to do the liver flush.  It may simply be my body behaving more normal after eating Bulletproof for the last 6 months and I decided to pay attention a little more after the flush.


  • Thanks! Very interesting :)


  • MaverickAzzMaverickAzz Powerful


    I think external soap stone experiment makes a lot of sense.


    There's excellent discussion of the topic in the reviews of the book I posted from Amazon a couple posts back.


    Specifically this one from a soap maker


    I am a soapmaker by trade, and olive oil does NOT produce a bright green soap. Soap made from olive oil becomes a lovely creamy white shade.


     


    There are a ton of other reviews that mention the soap angle. Read through them here.


     


    My wife and I did the cleanse at the same time, in exactly the same manner.  i.e. - we were drinking the same ingredients at the exact same times. 


    She is 130 pounds at 5'8".  I'm 140 pounds at 5'10".


    I had significantly larger stones in higher quantitiy than her.  If I had to put a range I'd say 3-5x more.  Her largest were the size of a pea but most were the size of a quinoa grain.  My largest were the size of a grape with a high number of peas and the rest quinoa. 


     


    No conclusions to be made; just providing you more data.


     


     


    Regarding the soap maker... that's true, but he's only thinking about three ingredients. Lemon juice, Magnesium salts, olive oil. What happens to the colour when you make that soap in a digestive tract?

    No sorcery, just science. 

  • On one of the early podcast Dave recommended Andreas Moritz's book titled "The Amazing Liver and Gallbladder Flush" (I lost the link since the website was re-organized).  The protocol he put in the better baby book post link in an earlier post is very similar to Andreas Moritz's book, although there are key differences. 


     


    I have tried the flush according to Andreas book two times, with limited results (between 5-10 stones).  Although after drinking the mixture I could something moving around internally.  In addition to the flush protocol he also recommends doing a kidney flush with a specific blend of herbs.  I feel the kidney tea has done a lot of good.  My urine has a horrible smell after drinking the tea, and the dark circles under my eyes have slowly started to go away (under eye appearance is one indicator of kidney health in traditional Chinese medicine).  I will try the liver flush again after I complete another 30 days of the drinking kidney tea.  Below is a detailed summary of his protocol.


     


    It would be very interesting to hear Dave's take on the difference between these flushes, the existence of stones in the liver, and if eating fat, dairy and meat  products effect the outcome of the flush (Andreas Moritz was a vegetarian and asserted that ingestion of fats would make the flush much more ineffective - I did drink bullet proof coffee and did not eliminate meat except the two days of the flush).


     




     


    Ingredients:

    Apple juice - six 32 ounce containers (or 1 liter). or cranberry juice (both

    contain malic acid which is the key to softening the stones)


     


    Epsom salts (or magnesium citrate) - 4 tablespoons dissolved in 24 oz of water


    Extra virgin olive oil - cold pressed - 4 ounces


     


    Either fresh grapefruit (pink is best) or fresh lemon and orange combined - Enough to squeeze 6 oz of juice


    Dietary considerations beginning on day 1 of the flush: 


    avoid foods or beverages that are cold or chilled

    try to minimize food from animal sources, dairy products and fried food, don't overeat.


    He highly recommends getting a colonic before and after the liver flush to

    avoid getting the gallstones getting stuck in your body. 


    Day 1-5: drink apple juice through out the day except just

    before, during and two hours after meals.  Don't drink in the evening

    either.


    Day 6: drink all apple juice in the morning.  Avoid

    sugar, sweeteners, spices, milk, butter oils, yogurt, cheese, ham,

    eggs, nuts, pastries, cold cereals, alcohol and similar foods.  Fresh

    fruit or fruit juice is ok.


    Eat a light breakfast (he recommends oatmeal) and a lunch of

    rice and steamed vegetables w/unrefined sea/rock salt.  Do not eat or

    drink anything after 1:30 p.m. or you will feel ill and have

    difficulties passing stones.


    1800 - drink 6 oz of epsom salt/water


    2000 - drink 6 oz of epsom salt/water


    2145 - mix olive oil and grapefruit juice (remove pulp from grapefruit).  Shake/mix until watery


     


    2200 - STAND next to bed (don't sit) and drink without interruption. 

    LIE DOWN IMMEDIATELY!  Lie perfectly still for 20 minutes and try not to

    speak.  Go to sleep if you can.


    0600-0630 - drink 6 oz of epsom salt/water


    0800-0830 - drink 6 oz of epsom salt/water


    1000-1030 - can drink fruit juice.  30 minutes later eat fruit.  1-2 hours later eat light lunch. 


    Drink water whenever you are thirst except approx 20 minutes before and 20

    minutes after taking epsom salt/water.  Avoid drinking water from 2130

    until 0200 (you can drink water if you must except from 2130 to 2400 -

    two hours after drinking olive oil/grapefruit juice mixture). 


     


    He does address some of the criticisms floating around

    the internet.  The most significant reference he provides is the medical

    terms for the stones is "intrahepatic stones" or "biliary stones".  He

    also states that conventional medicine discovered the existence of these

    stones, and cites John Hopkins Medical Institution.  If you search for

    "intrahepatic stones" on John Hopkins website, you will get multiple hits.  Most of

    the articles are reference to gallstones, but he implies in his book

    your liver has similar types of stones, and no one is looking for it.  I

    did not have the time to investigate further. 


    His very basic thesis is your liver is built for cleansing/detoxing

    the body (2nd largest organ in the body), and these stones build up and

    block various ducts in the liver, causing a variety of different

    diseases/medical conditions, depending on what ducts the stones are

    blocking. 

     


  • I've done a liver cleanse 3x now over the past few months (hulda clark's version).  I've had hundreds of light green stones come out and some dramatic health changes.  The main one being that my extreme back pain that I've had for years went away.  Now, this is back pain that nothing else could help and that basically disabled me at age 25 (popped, fell on the floor and couldnt stand up for over 24 hours).  I've had spinal fusion, ARP-wave therapy, yoga/pilates/core work, 15 physical therapist, 10 chiropractors, acupuncture.  I've seen surgeons from many elite insitutions (hopkins, etc).  I lost my coveted job at a fortune 20 company and I've been laying in bed on oxycodone for the past year and a half.  I did this cleanse and after a couple of them and a couple months I was sprinting down trails with no pain.  Can you explain that?  Holy shit my mind was and is blown.  I'm trying to understand this more.  I'm really in the middle of experiencing this right now as my pain came back in a milder form last week.  I'm probably going to read Andreas Moritz book and do a kidney cleanse, a colon cleanse, and then continue with more liver cleanses.  


     


    I've read a lot about this including probably 8 hours today and the debate on whether it is authentic or not (gallstones vs. "soapstones" whatever that is).  The personal testimony of lives changed from doing this cleanse is pretty overwhelming...check the reviews for andreas moritz book "the amazing liver and gallbladder flush".  There are dozens of people writing personal letters of thanks to andreas for saving their lives...many from people who didn't even know they had liver/gallbladder problems.  I found BPE searching for answers to my health problems and heavily practice Dave's recommendations and this is BY FAR the best things I"ve ever done for my health. I'm very skeptical after being severely let down my the medical establishment and find it hard to believe there are that many stones inside me...but it's hard for me to argue with the results and even the emotional impacts this has had upon my life and spirit.  It has actually made me wish there was a more about spiritual/emotional health on BPE but I guess there are other places that focus on that.


  • hm, interesting. i've had a couple people tell me that this same liver cleanse did some awesome things for them, and always been kind of curious, but a little skeptical. i had no idea it was considered a bulletproof thing. i'm kind of tempted to try it, but man i feel pretty good already, i dunno if i need to experiment with weird cleanses...


  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    Scam or not, it's a relatively cheap and harmless thing to test out on yourself. If you feel great afterwards, and especially if you lose things like long term back pain, does it really matter if it just made soap?


  • yeah it does seem harmless, although maybe not very tasty and somewhat uncomfortable. and you have to set aside an evening to do it. 


     


    one guy i know claims that it has made his allergies go away. but he said the last time he did it they actually got worse, which he rationalized by saying that he brought stuff to the surface that was buried. he said it was recommended that he do it again soon. so...i dunno..things like that make me wonder if it IS a good idea. 


  • The cleanse isn't that weird, its just a little inconvenient timewise and the diet is restrictive for anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks if you are really serious. Malic acid supplementation is recommended to soften the stones (or apples or apple juice) for about a week. A solid day and a half you pretty much have to set aside for cleanse time just because of the drinking times the night before and the bathroom times the day after.


     


    I have read everything from this being a super scam to this being something the medical community would like to keep under wraps. Fans recommend after doing enough cleanses to see almost no stones and to redo  the cleanse twice a year or whenever symptoms reemerge. One of  the biggest "points" the detractors use is that the stones that come out are just undigested bits of olive oil, which give it its green color, but I have seen some curezone board entries describing green stones even when using clear colored oil. I have done it once myself, but I don't feel that I properly prepared for it from the beginning.


     


    An easier version of this cleanse can be found by googling Edgar Cayce's apple fast/clease. Same concept (let bile build up and release it with a burst of fat) but its pretty much just eating apples for a few days and some olive oil at the end.


  • hmm...i do like apples, and ate them everyday until going BP... 


     


    how many stones can one possibly have? is it common for people to say they've done it to the point where they've gotten no stones?


     


    it seems a bit fishy to me, but i don't see who would have anything to gain from propagating it if its a myth, unless there are some kind of book sales or something. 


  • If you check out the CureZone boards, there are lots of discussions about this. Even ones that say, hey, I see no reason that this works but I keep doing and I keep getting better.


     


    You will find those that say stones can be removed only by surgery and they are huge and look like actual stones and this cleanse is totally ridiculous. Biliary ducts are said to clog easily, so its mostly cleaning them out, I think?


     


    The only way to figure this one out is to do at least 3 and give them honest shots. The people I read did up to 10-12 before seeing almost nothing come out, but did see immediate improvements post first treatment. They then do cleanses twice a year or whenever the symptoms return. In Chinese medicine, they say your filtering systems are the KEY to aging - keep the filters destressed and clean and you can go a long way to extend quality of life. To boost results, one woman I read suggested Gold Coin Grass tinctures for about a month before as well as Chinese bitters....or even just Chinese bitters and Gold coin grass as a way to naturally dissolve stones (or whatever they actually are) over a long period of time without the cleansing bit. Products and regimen available at www.sensiblehealth.com


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