Hi Protein Or High Dairy Diets Causes Cancer.

NickatNickat
edited March 2014 in General Discussion
Here in the UK we have been bombarded in the media about this.

Strangely, this, the day after the media was encouraging a sugar tax.

What are we to do? What are we to do?


So they say eat chicken fish and veggies....too much red meat is like smoking 20 cigarettes a day. All very well coming from the country that had disastrous mad cow disease me thinks. Wonder if the high protein meat was grass fed in their equations?

Comments

  • RekaReka ✭✭✭
    edited March 2014

    Most of these are made using processed meat products as "protein". People who ate more burgers, cold cuts and other products tended to get cancer. I highly doubt anybody found a correlation between real good quality meat and cancer. This has been discussed somewhere on the BP site and also on the forums.


    But instead of just reading what BP people write try to check out the studies to see what they used and what other variables they controlled for. Was it like, I gave my rats some salami peppered with rat poison and they died, so red meat kills?


    I wouldn't worry. Media is the opposite of unbiased, methodogically sound data.


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  • The NAHNES study is a US population study which means that the people in the study are likely to be consuming non-grass fed/finished beef (finished instead with poultry litter) and dairy that is produced from cattle that are given growth hormone to stimulate milk production and who spend their lives indoors eating grain. Aside from the reduced omega 3 content of the meat (and presumably dairy) from grain fed animals, US livestock is also fed large quantities of antibiotics and hormones. Tryptophan is  the only amino acid that is known to be carcinogenic. It's found in high quantities in muscle meat. Traditional cooking methods that cooked meat on the bone reduced the proportion of tryptophan by increasing the amount of glycine and other amino acids which are primarily found in the connective tissue. It's also unlikely that the study population balanced their muscle meat consumption in this way, 


     


     A more accurate representation of the study is that people who eat conventional commercially produced meat and dairy in the US have a higher risk of cancer and heart disease because they're consuming too much tryptophan via the muscle meat and the meat is too saturated with Omega 6 PUFAs. The researchers are undoubtedly right about the association between protein consumption and disease incidence in this population but are off beam blaming it on the macronutrient composition of the food rather than understanding (or even investigating) that the problem with the protein and the dairy is how it is produced and how cooked. 


  • NickatNickat
    edited March 2014
    Yeah if there's one thing to notice it's there is always a medical paper that proves it's case and another to disprove it. Media and the public perception of it really shouldn't influenced us but somehow it does.

    Just looking at the touched up glossy models on magazines and the sales figures is a prime example. Maybe we should start a media campaign here too. BP calendar. ...so come on girls get out your buns and guys show us your meat in the name of BP-isim.
  • RekaReka ✭✭✭


    Yeah if there's one thing to notice it's there is always a medical paper that proves it's case and another to disprove it. Media and the public perception of it really shouldn't influenced us but somehow it does.

    Just looking at the touched up glossy models on magazines and the sales figures is a prime example. Maybe we should start a media campaign here too. BP calendar. ...so come on girls get out your buns and guys show us your meat in the name of BP-isim.




     


     


    Hehe, good idea. :) Who knows what times will come.

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  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭
    edited March 2014

    My very uneducated opinion here:


     


    While the O3/O6 ratio of conventionally-raised meats isn't optimal, I think that the massive increases in O6 we see in the general population are due mainly to vegetable oils and things of the like. Grass-fed/pastured meats are healthier, no argument there. But I'm not convinced that conventional meats are the great Sheitan, either. I mean, A diet low in nuts, seeds and devoid of O6-rich oils should make for a fairly decent ratio, if O3 supplements are taken or fish is eaten with some frequency. Not optimal maybe, but not a one-way ticket to cancer-town.


     


    Feel free to point out the flaws in my thinking here, but this is my take: It isn't that people are eating conventional meats in particular that's causing cancer, but it's that people eat highly processed "healthy" meats, deli meats and such with tons of nasty additives. Also, they cook in suboptimal oils and enjoy their conventionally-raised burgers with, you know, buns and questionable condiments. I'm not convinced that the protein is the culprit here.


     


    Oh, and we all know that most conventional dairy is absolute shit, so no surprise there. A diet high in string cheese isn't likely to be good for you. SHOCK AND AWE.


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  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭
    edited March 2014


    Not so much the fat ratio, but the hormones, antibiotics, and lower nutrient levels.  Cooking ruins the omega fats anyway (reason for low temp processing with fish oil).  Can of worms officially opened.




     


    Good point. So, considering the fact that a good deal of the nutrients can be made up elsewhere, do we have any way of quantifying just how harmful the hormones and antibiotics are? That looks to be the lynchpin here. I'm sure it probably depends on the animal. Sigh. I guess I'm going coffin shoppin' tomorrow. I'll have to find a roomy one for all of my tumors...


     


    One of these days I'm going to make the switch to exclusively grass fed. One of these days, dang it...


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  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited March 2014


    Not so much the fat ratio, but the hormones, antibiotics, and lower nutrient levels.  Cooking ruins the omega fats anyway (reason for low temp processing with fish oil).  Can of worms officially opened.




     




    Feel free to point out the flaws in my thinking here, but this is my take: It isn't that people are eating conventional meats in particular that's causing cancer, but it's that people eat highly processed "healthy" meats, deli meats and such with tons of nasty additives. 




    ---


    Likely both. 


     


    This is something I found myself thinking about around a year ago when my mom had breast cancer (she's fine now.) The docs put her on Tamoxifen for the next 5 years, and told her to avoid red meat. Obviously I did research, and while I'm never a huge fan of long term pharmies, I think I'm on board with the Tamoxifen, which acts as an agonist on the estrogen receptor at the breast tissue, and thereby makes it very difficult for her particular form of breast cancer to come back because it's fueled by estrogen. But why the red meat?


     


    She asked the doc, who just said "all we know is we see a correlation between consumption of red meat and an increased rate of relapse in this form of cancer."


     


    But duh, Dave talks about added hormones, antibiotics in cattle raising estrogen levels, and Zearalenone raising estrogen too. But of course there are no breast cancer relapse studies that use grass fed meat.


     


    In any case, I'm totally on board with added hormones being a major cause of why the data show increased cancer risk with red meat. Breast cancer is a sizeable percentage of all cancer, and that alone could account for it, though I suspect it's not the only cancer fed by the crap hormones in mainstream meat. And the preservatives in processed meats are likely additional nails in the coffin. 


  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

    So, wait... I'm not getting Omega 3s from my sardines...?


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  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

    That's a good point. I guess I'd never considered that before. Perhaps I shouldn't have ditched my Omega 3 supps in favor of sardines...


     


    I've never been good at the whole sushi thing... but I guess this might be the impetus to start...


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  • RekaReka ✭✭✭

    Damn. Forgive my ignorance about something I eat several times a week... Is canned fish raw or cooked? Like sardines, tuna, herring.


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  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭
    edited March 2014

    They're cooked.


     


    If this video is to be believed, they're cooked at about 212 degrees:


     



    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

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  • RekaReka ✭✭✭
    edited March 2014

    Ohh. You telling me Santa doesn't exist... :shock:  On the other hand they would surely face several food safety lawsuits.


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  • The issue is with the tryptophan content of the muscle meat which is far more problematic than the O3:O6 issue,  


     


    People consume too much of the expensive cuts of muscle meat which has the highest proportion of tryptophan which we actually require less of when we age. This will increase the amount of serotonin in the body which can be problematic. Traditional diets used gelatine from bone broth and cheap cuts of meat which balance out the tryptophan content.  


  • NickatNickat
    edited March 2014

    Now that’s interesting as cooking sous vide enables bad cuts of meats or cheaper cuts taste succulent and tasty.

    Learning that it is better for you is new to us (as long as it is cooked on the bone). Always thought muscle meats were so much better cuts(no bone). This will certainly cut the grocery bills down a bit. Awesome.


    Estrogen build up is something that is less desirable and so tryptophan and it’s effects are not a good thing unless you are estrogen deficient. Feeding cancer this way is indeed costly. Yup understand that.


     


    Ahhhh....Tryptophan is carcinogenic: increased dietary tryptophan has a promoting effect on liver carcinogenesis and muscle meats have more Tryptophan therefore....


     


    Maybe we should have an infographics on the different cuts of meat with regard to their carcinogenic properties etc... also didn`t know that we won’t need calcium supplements if you cook with bone-in cuts frequently.



     

    Will have to rethink what quality means now. Grass-fed and on the bone prob more BP.



  • I was eluding to that if you eat cooked fish you aren't getting omega 3's either.  If they are using estrogen or mold toxins to fatten the cows then I'm not interested, I'm fine with just trimming all the fat but I would rather support natural raising environments.




     


     


    My biggest worry with antiobiotics is the increased risk of pathagen mutations in a factory farm enviornment.  This is reason enough alone to avoid conventional meat, as it puts literally everyone at risk.


     


    Then there is the CLA content to consider with grass-fed meat and dairy, which is stable when heated, and protects against cancer.

  • CLA can not be made in our bodies. Have taken it as a supplement but decided to drop it as thought it better to get from our diet in grass fed beef. Think we’ll continue that for now but only if it’s on the bone. Decided to go raw milk (kefir style) which although appears on the new infographics as (just) green also has the same benefits as you so pointed out regarding CLA.

  • Cold-smoked sockeye salmon, sashimi -- yum!


    Here's Denise Minger's rebuttal to the China study, posted on the Weston Price Foundation's website. It's a pretty good read.


    http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/the-china-study-myth 


    Mary

  • NickatNickat
    edited March 2014

    That`s a great read. Particularly liked the reference by Denise Minger talking about the possiblity that some coastal areas that are industry-dominated regions (that ate the most fish) also had cadmium-contaminated soils? The run off of which made it possible to be transfered to the fish that was eaten. The data  collected pointed out on a chart by it`s grid line was close to that of the county`s population with the absolute highest use of homemade cigarettes.


  • I read an article on IFLS (via Facebook) about red meat causing cancer...this gave me the fear and so I have come here for some solace, hopefully!


     


    I also read a few comments by seemingly well-educated individuals, also disgruntled at the inaccuracy of the article, who said that a big problem with eating lots of red meat is that many people do not eat enough fiber to flush the meat through the colon (which is not a great place for it to sit for a long time apparently). 


     


    I am not going to pretend I have a good knowledge of science so could anyone a bit more clued up than myself give an opinion please? 


     


    The BP diet does seem to be relatively low on the fiber front (as all the bad stuff is full of fiber!)...so does anyone have any recommendations for good BP-friendly sources of fiber? I did a search but could not find any posts here on the forum with fiber. 


     


    Cheers!


  • WalterWalter ✭✭✭

    Sweet potatoes, avocados, broccoli and spinach all are decent BP sources of fibre.


  • RekaReka ✭✭✭

    The BP diet advocates lots of vegetables. I wouldn't call it low on fiber.


    I don't think meat digests any longer than other foods. I highly doubt that meat tends to rot in the colon but I don't have the means right now to cite articles on it.


    It doesn't get easier... It's you who gets better.

     

    Is your social worker in that horse?

     

    Success has a price, not a secret.

  • It is utterly surprising to me that keto diet has linked with reducing cancer, but does this mean that processed meat is used is unclear to me. According to the link here http://todaybeast.com/732/experts-are-now-investigating-the-benefits-of-keto-on-cancer-patients/says it lowers insulin and decreases the risk of cancer, I am a bit skeptic though because what kind of meat is used while doing these research and does it mean like a variety of food? Also I feel like genetic oughta play a role in this because like not everyone has the same reaction of meat. But how come something be linked to reducing cancer when is can possibly have long-term side effects.

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