Starting Kettlebells$

I started my first day of kettlebell workouts this week which were based on Pavel. My trainer is certified by Pavel. The gym is more personal and works one on one a lot because it is small and growing. My trainer has instructed me to come twice a week at least. He prefers three times a week. The workouts are 45min-1 hour, and they seem intense. I feel like I shouldn't workout hard 2-3 times a week because it will take a toll on my body over time. My goal is have biggish, toned muscles but not too big. I am 21 year old male weighing 170 pounds with 16% body fat (I have a little high homocysteine levels if that matters. My doctor thinks it is from red meat. Idk what it is.). My questions:


 


1. Can I workout once every 2 weeks and expect results within 6 months?


 


2. What about results working out once a week?


 


3. Should kettlebell workouts be done in under 20 minutes like body by science?


 


4. I 2-3 workouts a week really going to hurt my body over time?


 


5. Are kettlebell workouts alone enough to get what I want in the fastest way.


 


6. Any recommendations or advice


 


I always feel like I am working out the wrong way, and I hear so many different methods. From my perspective, it seems like the guys with biggish muscles are in the gym almost every day lifting a lot, but then people on this podcast/blog/website talk about once a week and recovery a lot. I have tried body by science workouts, but it did not seem to work at once a week. My machines weren't exactly like his though. I could only do about 3-4 reps of 75% of my max, and it rarely last a minute. I am not an exercise guru, and anything would help!


"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

-Einstein

Comments

  • First, Homocysteine will be decreased by red meat due to the bio-available b vitamins. I think kettlebells are a great tool an I am an avid user of them. I swing a 48kg for reps 2x a week and despite the amount of weight I am working with the size gain is not that noticeable. Kettlebells have often been mistaken as a strength tool, which they can be just like an isometric hold. But they are most efficiently used as a conditioning tool. I think this greatly has to do with the multi-joint aspect of the movements and how unavailable fractional increases are. You typically see jumps by 4-8kg between bells, but with weights you can go 2.5lbs. 


     


    For size I cannot tell you home dynamic a 5x5 training platform is for size and strength. I did body for life an got my weight down to 196 with a 275# deadlift, in 6mos of working out with a 5x5 training regiment I pulled 495 on my DL and gained about 35# (some fat but mainly muscle). You cant rack KBs like you can a bar. You always have to be able to handle the weight outside of the movement you are preforming, you don't see powerlifters picking up there load 600# bar of the ground then onto their chest and then press, no the weight is racked. Kettlebells are a superior tool though for overall health, you can become a beast with one 24kg bell but you couldn't do that with one 45# plate. 


     


    I will say I did use KBs as an adjunct to the 5x5 and would do active recovery with them post DL days, encouraging blood to circulate in my traps and hamstrings. They were great with bands like banded KB bench presses, banded kb swings and banded military presses. These have amazing pre-rehabing properties preventing nasty injuries like a torn delt, hernia or torn pec. 


     


    Supplements and diet:


    Creatine - micronized 5-10g/day


    Paleo diet, keep the carb up, eat carbs based on soreness or lack of strenght. 


    Side note, If my HR was elevated the morning of a lifting day and couldnt control it by meditating then it was a no lift day, also if I pick up my 24kg KB or a 45# plate and it didnt feel like to me than I wouldn't lift. You must avoid Central Nervous System fatigue to get big.


    Upgraded whey and collagen to keep up protein but reduce inflammation. 


    Whole body vibration has been my biggest saving grace, it reduces my soreness and fatigue by 2 day which is amazing. 


    Electrical muscle stimulation with either Compex or MarcPro is another recovery hack if you are dead set on your time line. 


     


    Google this for more info:


     


    Reg Park


    Bill Starr


    Stronglifts 5x5


     


    good luck 


     


    Patrick 




  • It depends on your food and sleep as to how well you recover, which in turn affects the frequency and difficulty of the training. Start with once per week, if you feel good then try twice, then thrice, etc until you feel like you are just making it or slightly degrading, then reduce back a bit or eat more food. You can definitely use kettlebells as the object you are lifting to increase muscle, but just doing swings might not (most of the top competition swingers barely look like they lift) as it is about power generation from the hip. If you are strictly concerned with adding tissue then doing compound movements in the 5-12 rep range with a barbell and supplementing it with kettlebells will be more effective.




     


    What kind of compound movements would be good? Is there any workout program or reading you would recommend?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

    -Einstein



  • First, Homocysteine will be decreased by red meat due to the bio-available b vitamins. I think kettlebells are a great tool an I am an avid user of them. I swing a 48kg for reps 2x a week and despite the amount of weight I am working with the size gain is not that noticeable. Kettlebells have often been mistaken as a strength tool, which they can be just like an isometric hold. But they are most efficiently used as a conditioning tool. I think this greatly has to do with the multi-joint aspect of the movements and how unavailable fractional increases are. You typically see jumps by 4-8kg between bells, but with weights you can go 2.5lbs. 


     


    For size I cannot tell you home dynamic a 5x5 training platform is for size and strength. I did body for life an got my weight down to 196 with a 275# deadlift, in 6mos of working out with a 5x5 training regiment I pulled 495 on my DL and gained about 35# (some fat but mainly muscle). You cant rack KBs like you can a bar. You always have to be able to handle the weight outside of the movement you are preforming, you don't see powerlifters picking up there load 600# bar of the ground then onto their chest and then press, no the weight is racked. Kettlebells are a superior tool though for overall health, you can become a beast with one 24kg bell but you couldn't do that with one 45# plate. 


     


    I will say I did use KBs as an adjunct to the 5x5 and would do active recovery with them post DL days, encouraging blood to circulate in my traps and hamstrings. They were great with bands like banded KB bench presses, banded kb swings and banded military presses. These have amazing pre-rehabing properties preventing nasty injuries like a torn delt, hernia or torn pec. 


     


    Supplements and diet:


    Creatine - micronized 5-10g/day


    Paleo diet, keep the carb up, eat carbs based on soreness or lack of strenght. 


    Side note, If my HR was elevated the morning of a lifting day and couldnt control it by meditating then it was a no lift day, also if I pick up my 24kg KB or a 45# plate and it didnt feel like to me than I wouldn't lift. You must avoid Central Nervous System fatigue to get big.


    Upgraded whey and collagen to keep up protein but reduce inflammation. 


    Whole body vibration has been my biggest saving grace, it reduces my soreness and fatigue by 2 day which is amazing. 


    Electrical muscle stimulation with either Compex or MarcPro is another recovery hack if you are dead set on your time line. 


     


    Google this for more info:


     


    Reg Park


    Bill Starr


    Stronglifts 5x5


     


    good luck 


     


    Patrick 




     


    You are saying that grass fed red meat will lower my Homocysteine?


     


    I like the idea of strong lift a lot, but it seems to against everything Dave says for exercise. Is there a way to get big and still follow a Body by science perspective?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

    -Einstein

  • How many weeks do you play with the number of reps? Seems like there are a lot of variables. Which means it would be hard to find what works best for me?


    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

    -Einstein



  • Just try this then:

    Sets taken to 1 before fail, last set is failure.

    Week 1: 6 sets of 12 reps per exercise

    Week 2: 6 sets of 10 reps

    Week 3: 6 sets of 8 reps

    Week 4: 6 sets of 6 reps

    Then repeat cycle but increase sets by 2 each cycle, continue this pattern until volume becomes too great then reduce volume to the number of sets that felt best. Your next question will be frequency, so go Mon/wed/fri, squat/lunge pressing/deadlift , pulling/cleans.




     


     


    Great I like that process. What do you think of Stronglifts 5×5? Seems easy to follow.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

    -Einstein



  • You are saying that grass fed red meat will lower my Homocysteine?


     


    I like the idea of strong lift a lot, but it seems to against everything Dave says for exercise. Is there a way to get big and still follow a Body by science perspective?




    Grassfed beef due to its vitamin B content will lower homocysteine. If it is still high after uping your beef but not to the point it's insulinogenic than add a B complex like B right from Jarrows, methylated B vitamins are the only ones you should be buying. 


     


    Dave's thing seems to be minimal effective dose. You'll never squat or bench decent weight with body by science. The tempo within body by science seems to be more crucial than anything. I fundamentally disagree with using machines, that's just me. I like kettlebells, maces, battleropes and bars with lots of plates on them. I think using free weights does more to prepare you for functional movement than using a machine, yes even a smith machine on four planes. That's just my opinion, I have seen the body by science users and yes they are fit and relatively svelte but that's not me. I have a 44in chest on bad day and I am 5'9' my body appreciates the heavy weights.  



  • Just try this then:

    Sets taken to 1 before fail, last set is failure.

    Week 1: 6 sets of 12 reps per exercise

    Week 2: 6 sets of 10 reps

    Week 3: 6 sets of 8 reps

    Week 4: 6 sets of 6 reps

    Then repeat cycle but increase sets by 2 each cycle, continue this pattern until volume becomes too great then reduce volume to the number of sets that felt best. Your next question will be frequency, so go Mon/wed/fri, squat/lunge pressing/deadlift , pulling/cleans.




    I feel a little confused.... But I do want the best results


     


    1. Why would I lower my reps each week? Do the weight gets heavier each week? Is that all my body will be able to stand?


     


    2. I do one new exercise per set I guess? So 6 sets yes, but it will involve: 1. Squat 2. Lunge 3. Pressing 4. Deadlift 5. Pulling 6. Cleans


     


    3. How do I know how much weight to be lifting with this protocol? Like what percent of my max?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

    -Einstein

  • I really think for the most amazing hormetic response you need to do a whole body compound joint 2-3x a week. Stronglifts will get you the results you want and it eliminates so much confuse, the confuse you are currently experiencing (no offense). 


     


    Doing upper body AND lower body compound multi-joint movements produce the most amount of testosterone which is the catalyst for true composition change. 


     


    If you want aesthetics do the weight lifting aspect of Body-For-Life. It will have you looking good in no time. If you don't need to loose weight than don't do the cardio, save up the glycogen to go heavier the next weight lifting session. 


     


    But if you want strength, long lasting functional strength then go lift heavy shit.


     


    Remember crossfit is all well in good but it comes at a pretty good cost, it was originally developed by Glassman as a way to gain a competitive edge on his fellow gymnast than later tailored its intensity towards first responders and the military. It's taxing stuff and unless you are playing a sport I really don't recommend it. 


     


     


    And dont forget to Keep It Simple Stupid (always centering), both stonglifts and body for life have premade templates. The first couple of times you try either of these you will most likely over shoot the weight and not finish the workout, next week re-calculate and ramp up slower. It is always better to start lighter in the beginning to safely warm up your joints, so you can finish heavier. Now the lower rep higher weight want have that body building effect that lower weight higher reps will but you will get stronger this way while creating composition change.



  • I started my first day of kettlebell workouts this week which were based on Pavel. My trainer is certified by Pavel. The gym is more personal and works one on one a lot because it is small and growing. My trainer has instructed me to come twice a week at least. He prefers three times a week. The workouts are 45min-1 hour, and they seem intense. I feel like I shouldn't workout hard 2-3 times a week because it will take a toll on my body over time. My goal is have biggish, toned muscles but not too big. I am 21 year old male weighing 170 pounds with 16% body fat (I have a little high homocysteine levels if that matters. My doctor thinks it is from red meat. Idk what it is.). My questions:


     


    1. Can I workout once every 2 weeks and expect results within 6 months?


     


    2. What about results working out once a week?


     


    3. Should kettlebell workouts be done in under 20 minutes like body by science?


     


    4. I 2-3 workouts a week really going to hurt my body over time?


     


    5. Are kettlebell workouts alone enough to get what I want in the fastest way.


     


    6. Any recommendations or advice


     


    I always feel like I am working out the wrong way, and I hear so many different methods. From my perspective, it seems like the guys with biggish muscles are in the gym almost every day lifting a lot, but then people on this podcast/blog/website talk about once a week and recovery a lot. I have tried body by science workouts, but it did not seem to work at once a week. My machines weren't exactly like his though. I could only do about 3-4 reps of 75% of my max, and it rarely last a minute. I am not an exercise guru, and anything would help!




     


     


    Hey Zonk,


     


    Heard this after my workout and thought of you buddy. Take a listen.


     


    http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/01/15/pavel-tsatsouline/



  • That was the basis of what I wrote, just with higher reps to bias hypertrophy over strength, seemed more like what you were looking for. Just add a vertical pull.




    When adding a vertical pull, I guess I just trade it out for one of the other exercises? Or do 4 exercises instead of 3?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

    -Einstein

  • Zonk,


     


    Thanks for posting this. I don't know too much about Kettlebells- what made you decide to add it in your workout routine?  I did have a friend in high school who worked out with his dad and they implemented kettlebells in their training- they had them in their backyard.  Needless to say, he did lose a lot of weight.


     


    -Daniela


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