The Low Carb Myth

2»

Comments

  • WalterWalter ✭✭✭

    You can definitely say it's a tool kit for experimentation. Nobody can say for sure how you will respond to a certain amount of fat, protein and carbohydrates. This will depend on factors you can and can't change.




  •  


    Oh, and by the way, on the ketogenic diet (no starchy veg., only green), I almost lost my gallbladder, but I lost about 50 lbs. all told, so that's why I'm convinced that carbs are the most significant factor in weight loss. I've also seen my Dad lose tons of weight going low-carb. He always gains it back, though, because he hasn't figured out a way to maintain it.




     


     


    --


     


    RGBREC - I think you already know this but it sounds like you've got some underlying gut issues which is why you're so sensitive to different things.  Keeping it off is the real challenge, I'm intrigued by cold thermogenesis.  I might pick up one of those jackets, it could be an easy habit to pick up and burn some calories with.


     


    I've heard it leads to hunger though.

  • fixerforhirefixerforhire Mr. Not Sure.
    edited February 2015


    --


     


    RGBREC - I think you already know this but it sounds like you've got some underlying gut issues which is why you're so sensitive to different things.  Keeping it off is the real challenge, I'm intrigued by cold thermogenesis.  I might pick up one of those jackets, it could be an easy habit to pick up and burn some calories with.


     


    I've heard it leads to hunger though.




    i'd recommend short doses the colder(there may even be too cold) you go or aim for a longer but warmer temperature. 60ish degrees without a blanket or just a sheet when sleeping.


    i was my thinnest working in the snow for 5 years up in Tahoe. it was characterized by short 20 to 30 minute exposure to cold followed by warming up in my truck or indoors for 15 - 30 minutes.


    the bulk of my cold exposure was my head, hands and feet.


    i wear an ice vest during the summer when i'm watching movies or reading. no issues, except redness from the cold. i'd wear it for 20ish minutes. 


    i've tried immersion in a pool at @50 degrees for a week for 20 minutes. that definitely lead to hunger. i'm sensitive to chlorine as well i think.


     


    in the summer, 70 degree water is tolerable for a time that exceeds my interest to stay in the water. i'm sure the temperature differential is amazing for using excess energy.


     


    if you have a deep tub, 65 to 70 degrees(maybe warmer), for an amount of time that works without throwing you out of whack.  slow and steady to begin with wins the race with cold.


    its tempting to go to the max, the body seems to respond in equal magnitude to prevent your efforts, usually by forcing you into sabotaging your diet. thats just my experience with anything that increase energy loss, be it indirectly or directly through diet, exercise or cold exposure.


     


    Ray Cronise inspired?


  • Ray Cronise inspired?


     


    --


     


    Of course, straight from the 4hr Body.  Sucker for fad diets that I am!

  • fixerforhirefixerforhire Mr. Not Sure.
    edited February 2015


    Ray Cronise inspired?


     


    --


     


    Of course, straight from the 4hr Body.  Sucker for fad diets that I am!




    me too! lol.


    the slow carb diet yielded good results for me. could have done without the beans :(


    it was significantly harder. I am a glutton for punishment. BP IF has been to easy.


    I think we all subscribe to the no pain no gain mentality. crave it for some twisted reason.


    I'm a bit bummed about it, i had a friend suffer with me through the slow carb. he lost 25 pounds and gained it back.


    This time i'm trying to get him on BP, but I used up my credibility capital with him.


    the higher fat intake has him dubious, and i think he thinks I'm secretly suffering and not letting on.


     


    I like Ray's blog. 


    very tech, and the subtlety of some of his suggestions are easily missed. What I took away from his blog was shoot for comfortable cold exposure.


    that temperature where you kinda want to put on a jacket or sweater, or use a blanket.


     


    oh and his other words of wisdom, you cant out exercise your mouth haha.


    i'd love to have one of those stoichiometric devices to measure my basal metabolic rate.


     


    i am a sucker for astounding results from near extreme means. it appeals to my immediate gratification and not wanting to be patient for results.


  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


     


    have you tried using bp chocolate, cacao butter and eryth xyl sweetener + bp oils to carb up?

    basically make the bp choco bars. its a bit pricey but id be curios to see how itd  work to supplement your carbs. not sure how advisable eating 36 additional grams of chocolate a day is.should/may be fine.

    i made chocolate using honey, for 4 chocolate bars each the size of two reeses cups. i used a heaping tbl spn of honey. surprised me how sweet it was.

    almond butter or walnut butter added was pretty good.

     


    I think carbs are a cyclical thing. you edge out fat loss and then bring back the carbs a bit, then back off. if going for significant or sustained fat loss.


    it's like two or three steps forward and one step back on fat loss, or if you're lucky just a momentary halt of fat loss with no gain.


    I need carbs and the amount isn't static. I really have to be mindful between a craving and a glutenous rampage. usually a bag of veggies and sweet potato settle that, in addition to the bp chocolate pudding. i do even give in to having my favorite hazlenut chocolate bar. ive done that three time in 2 months, and two refeed days involved 2 non bp cheat dinners.


     


    the success on the sustained low carb keto diet was painful, it works but I have huge doubts on its healthfulness. its an easy premise to latch on to is why its so prevalent.


     


    the long term abatement is still the big mystery/challenge. I can ride it in terms of slowly gain 10 pounds and then lose it when things get tight.


     


    also... strangely or not on the BP IF i get into ketosis quick. probably the fast part helps tremendously.


    just eating fat and protein before was a fight. it took two days or 3 to get a solid reading on a keto stick.


    how long I can stay there changes and ignoring my body's demand is more counterproductive than useful. I have to resist the urge to let sustained ketosis be the long term heavy hitter. its deceptive.


     


    maybe call the BP IF diet, the Intermittent or cyclical carb diet. 


    i cant say its a low carb experience. it is definitely the current apex of a process of trial and error and the evolution of my fatloss experimentation. i'm sure its not the end all be all but it is excellent progress. i feel like the chimp to walking man poster.  i'm somewhere in the middle looking back at the primitive chimp or less evolved man. future me is looking back in the same fashion.


     


    or maybe the bp diet is more a tool kit of experimentation. its really the first time for me there were parameters that encouraged experimentation rather than rote rules.


    its the discover how your body works diet. 



     




    Sounds like a lot of good ideas. I basically try everything I can. I think I have been VLC and not even known it. I only generally eat 30-100 g of carbs a day. Closer to 100 on workout days, because I have white rice in my post-workout (lunch) meal. If I eat breakfast, I always just do protein, and maybe some cauliflower. 


     


    Yesterday, I tried doing a low-fat and high-carb day (a Sisson-style refeed). It was weird. It was also after my first successful ketogenic day/night with no starchy carbs for meals. I don't know if those two should be matched up to one another. This one guy once suggested switching up macros drastically like this and he had a killer six-pack. He only worked out once a week, following a Doug McGuff Body By Science strategy. I need to look him up again. He seemed like he had some good ideas. He was also a Jack Kruse guy, though, which is very extreme.


     


    Don't know what else to say.


     


    -Rob

  • fixerforhirefixerforhire Mr. Not Sure.
    edited February 2015

    Rob,


     


    maybe use an immersion blender and blend up 2 bags of veggies for 40+ grams of carbs (edit. I don't know about the actual numbers for the net carbs.internet search is confounding), add a little butter and/or mct oil. I can do a bag of whole vegetables, two would be a stretch. i'm gonna try that tonight.


    and add a bp dessert with chocolate.


     


    i'm already doing 1 lb with dinner and the occassional bag with lunch.


     


    i'm not sure if that will cause a gut problem.


    I don't seem to have an issue with 1 bag/1 pound of whole veggies.


     


    I'm starting to get the feeling I need a bit more carbs than what I'm getting. my new tack will be less intense refeed days and a higher daily intake.


    white rice and I don't play well, usually. Other more dense carbs i'm sketched out about.


     


    I have had success on limiting my meals to 20-35 grams per meal at 4-5 meals a day, of just about any type of carbs and playing with the fat and protein ratios.


    I am a glutton for punishment, anything works to some degree if you are militaristic about adhering to rules.


    my new goal is to aim for the more effortless approach.


     


    can anyone think of a reason 1.5 to 2 pounds of veggies might be an issue?


    one thing i'm thinking is I can never know what contamination is present on the veggies and how much of an impact they have given various states of health.


    i'm finding the biggest or unnerving challenge is there is a huge disparity between a pure uncontaminated vitamin, mineral, chemical or whole food and how they react with the body; and what we acquire on our own. 


    we just never know what hidden variables there are that shouldnt be there. I think those are the things that confound our results much more than we'd care to admit. it's not fair. it'd be like me walking into a lab and contaminating experiments. it all goes without saying, everyone knows. i'm venting. very frustrating.


  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited February 2015


    can anyone think of a reason 1.5 to 2 pounds of veggies might be an issue?




     


    Pesticides, so buy good veggies and wash them. Or if you have issues with a lot of fiber. In general though veggies are good, eat lots. 


     


    Importantly though, keep in mind a lot and in some cases most of the carbs in veggies are in the form of fiber and are not usable by your body. Keep an eye on "net carbs," carbs minus fiber. This is why the BP diet says to have a fruit or starch like sweet potato in the evening and for refeeds, rather than just adding more and more veggies. 


  • fixerforhirefixerforhire Mr. Not Sure.
    edited February 2015


    Pesticides, so buy good veggies and wash them. Or if you have issues with a lot of fiber. In general though veggies are good, eat lots. 


     


    Importantly though, keep in mind a lot and in some cases most of the carbs in veggies are in the form of fiber and are not usable by your body. Keep an eye on "net carbs," carbs minus fiber. This is why the BP diet says to have a fruit or starch like sweet potato in the evening and for refeeds, rather than just adding more and more veggies. 




     I'm not giving up my sweet potatoes! I love them.


    I was trying to think of a source/way to augment starch and sugar intake for Rob.


    and in the process it gave me an idea. hehe


    i'm googling the nutritional content of broccoli. it varies significantly. 


    i see what you mean about the net carbs.


     


    maybe shoot for a veggie that has a higher net carb than broccoli?


    or cycle through the other bp starches. butternut squash, yams, carrots


  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


     I'm not giving up my sweet potatoes! I love them.


    I was trying to think of a source/way to augment starch and sugar intake for Rob.


    and in the process it gave me an idea. hehe


    i'm googling the nutritional content of broccoli. it varies significantly. 


    i see what you mean about the net carbs.


     


    maybe shoot for a veggie that has a higher net carb than broccoli?


    or cycle through the other bp starches. butternut squash, yams, carrots




    Hey, I just wanted to let you know I did a Mark Sisson-style carb refeed and the fat burning came back. I'm gonna try and do like a ton of carbs with a low-fat day (which I HATE) once every week or two. I think it makes all the difference because of the need to reset leptin.


     


    I did feel a little yeasty and weak that day, but the next couple days it evened out. If I did all white rice and avoided any excess fructose, I bet I'd have no issues whatsoever. Just like Dave Asprey does.


     


    I guess I didn't realize how few carbs I was having. I probably barely ever went above 50. I didn't realize a cup of rice only had 26 carbs. I must have used to eat mountains of the stuff when I didn't know it was okay to eat fat (before Bulletproof).


     


    Thanks for looking into stuff for me, though. Definitely doing yams (sweet potatoes), but I don't think I'll ever go back to butternut squash after my experience on the SCD diet (right after I got sick and before BP). Too many bad associations.

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    Rob,


     


    maybe use an immersion blender and blend up 2 bags of veggies for 40+ grams of carbs (edit. I don't know about the actual numbers for the net carbs.internet search is confounding), add a little butter and/or mct oil. I can do a bag of whole vegetables, two would be a stretch. i'm gonna try that tonight.


    and add a bp dessert with chocolate.


     


    i'm already doing 1 lb with dinner and the occassional bag with lunch.


     


    i'm not sure if that will cause a gut problem.


    I don't seem to have an issue with 1 bag/1 pound of whole veggies.


     


    I'm starting to get the feeling I need a bit more carbs than what I'm getting. my new tack will be less intense refeed days and a higher daily intake.


    white rice and I don't play well, usually. Other more dense carbs i'm sketched out about.


     


    I have had success on limiting my meals to 20-35 grams per meal at 4-5 meals a day, of just about any type of carbs and playing with the fat and protein ratios.


    I am a glutton for punishment, anything works to some degree if you are militaristic about adhering to rules.


    my new goal is to aim for the more effortless approach.


     


    can anyone think of a reason 1.5 to 2 pounds of veggies might be an issue?


    one thing i'm thinking is I can never know what contamination is present on the veggies and how much of an impact they have given various states of health.


    i'm finding the biggest or unnerving challenge is there is a huge disparity between a pure uncontaminated vitamin, mineral, chemical or whole food and how they react with the body; and what we acquire on our own. 


    we just never know what hidden variables there are that shouldnt be there. I think those are the things that confound our results much more than we'd care to admit. it's not fair. it'd be like me walking into a lab and contaminating experiments. it all goes without saying, everyone knows. i'm venting. very frustrating.




    Hmm, I wouldn't mess with bags of vegetables, unless they're from an excellent organic source. If they're "clean," there shouldn't be any problems whatsoever eating that much. Then again, when I was super yeasty (about a year ago), I recall throwing about a pound and a half of fresh broccoli in a pot and eating it all. By the end, it started to taste like sugar to me. It was a very strange sensation. It does have carbs after all. Also, if you're getting that much soluble fiber, you could be feeding your gut bacteria "too much." Cooked vegetables make it a lot easier to eat a lot of veggies, so you could be overriding your body's natural tendency to limit the veggies. I have no problem with cooking things, however. It's perfectly consistent with our adaptation/evolution. However, again, the tribes existing today just eat veggies on the go. I'd like to look into their total intake of raw/cooked veggies and the exact timing of when they do it. Does it really make sense to have veggies with EVERY meal like we do? I mean I do, because I assume it's good for me. However, would there be days when you just wouldn't eat veggies/carbs at all? It would be interesting to try, eh?


     


    Yeah, I don't even think of veggies as carbs. I don't count them on carb days at all. I only count the rice, potatoes, and starchy veg on those days.

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    The problem is distinguishing between the the two variables. Was it a low carb diet or a calorie restricted diet which was responsible for fat/ weight loss. 


     


    Until very recently I thought my weight/fat loss was attributed to low carb dieting. What changed my mind was an experiment where I added 400-800 calories a day to my diet, essentially just eating more of the things I generally eat. After two months I gained 10lbs most of which was fat.


     


    After other carb experiments I have at least convinced myself that getting enough carbohydrates is essential for my health and well being, a problem I see with describing something as low carb is that it is just too damn vague. I try to eat around 70-100g net carbs per day and I would call that low carb, but what others would call that I don't know? 




     


     


    I think it's manipulation of carb intake that does it. At first, for the obese/overweight, this is just lowering carb intake. They get awesome results on just almost pure fat diets (a la Dave's 100 pounds in 100 days program). There is so much evidence that it's about carbs, we can't ignore it. So, doing the "carb refeeds" and resetting the leptin is probably our problem. Don't let your body get too comfortable with the kind of food you're taking in. Mix it up a little bit. You can take it. I wanted to eat high-fat every day, but to do that carb refeed, it has been postulated that you need to go a little low fat (under 50 g is what Mark Sisson says). It's hard, but it's probably worth it. Enjoy all the fat you can eat the rest of the days. Just some thoughts.



  • Hey, I just wanted to let you know I did a Mark Sisson-style carb refeed and the fat burning came back. I'm gonna try and do like a ton of carbs with a low-fat day (which I HATE) once every week or two. I think it makes all the difference because of the need to reset leptin.


     


    ...


     


    I didn't realize a cup of rice only had 26 carbs.




     


    How do you define Sisson refeed? Just staying low fat, or does the carb amount differ?


     


    Where are you getting that number? I count ~45g carbs for a cup of white rice, loosely packed, by most sources. 


     


     


    I'm down with organic bagged, frozen veggies. They are generally picked at peak ripeness and frozen very quickly, so while you don't get to inspect the food before you buy it, it may be "fresher" than what's sitting out at the supermarket. I still buy mostly fresh, but it's nice to have a few bags hanging out in the freezer ready to go any time. 

  • fixerforhirefixerforhire Mr. Not Sure.


    Hmm, I wouldn't mess with bags of vegetables, unless they're from an excellent organic source


    . If they're "clean," there shouldn't be any problems whatsoever eating that much. Then again, when I was super yeasty (about a year ago), I recall throwing about a pound and a half of fresh broccoli in a pot and eating it all. By the end, it started to taste like sugar to me. It was a very strange sensation. It does have carbs after all. Also, if you're getting that much soluble fiber, you could be feeding your gut bacteria "too much." Cooked vegetables make it a lot easier to eat a lot of veggies, so you could be overriding your body's natural tendency to limit the veggies. I have no problem with cooking things, however. It's perfectly consistent with our adaptation/evolution. However, again, the tribes existing today just eat veggies on the go. I'd like to look into their total intake of raw/cooked veggies and the exact timing of when they do it. Does it really make sense to have veggies with EVERY meal like we do? I mean I do, because I assume it's good for m


     


    Yeah, I don't even think of veggies as carbs. I don't count them on carb days at all. I only count the rice, potatoes, and starchy veg on those days.




    I do organic, definitely notice a difference in quality/taste among the organics available. 


    the one I like best I get 6oz less for the same price. darn veggies are expensive.


     


    I think you might be right about the too much angle. i'm always looking for an excuse to do something to the extreme lol.


     


     


    what type of white rice do you go with? so far i've abstained from rice. I think it's the bad association I have of gaining weight with it, if i eat something bad with it.


    i'm realizing that carbs are starting to become a lot more important due to where i'm at. 


    The lower carb BP IF broad hammer has worked spectacularly; but i'm on the edge of needing more.


    it's getting much more nuanced now. 

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    I do organic, definitely notice a difference in quality/taste among the organics available. 


    the one I like best I get 6oz less for the same price. darn veggies are expensive.


     


    I think you might be right about the too much angle. i'm always looking for an excuse to do something to the extreme lol.


     


     


    what type of white rice do you go with? so far i've abstained from rice. I think it's the bad association I have of gaining weight with it, if i eat something bad with it.


    i'm realizing that carbs are starting to become a lot more important due to where i'm at. 


    The lower carb BP IF broad hammer has worked spectacularly; but i'm on the edge of needing more.


    it's getting much more nuanced now. 




    Yeah, definitely try the refeed. It really made a difference I think. I'm about to do it again today after a massive workout just now (heavy lifting).


     


    Organic white Californian Jasmine rice is the best. Anything from the U.S. helps avoid the arsenic issue. That's really important. Rice is awesome, because it's like pure glucose (almost no fructose at all). Read the article I linked above. 

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    How do you define Sisson refeed? Just staying low fat, or does the carb amount differ?


     


    Where are you getting that number? I count ~45g carbs for a cup of white rice, loosely packed, by most sources. 


     


     


    I'm down with organic bagged, frozen veggies. They are generally picked at peak ripeness and frozen very quickly, so while you don't get to inspect the food before you buy it, it may be "fresher" than what's sitting out at the supermarket. I still buy mostly fresh, but it's nice to have a few bags hanging out in the freezer ready to go any time. 




    Sorry it was 34 g for 100 g of rice. Even had that wrong.


     


    Anyway, here is the Mark Sisson article (also linked above) that describes what he suggests for a refeed. It's under 50 g of fat and over 200 g of carbs. It sounds nuts, but apparently it does the trick for resetting leptin. I'd trust a 60-year-old who manages to maintain a six-pack. There's no reason us 30-40 yr-olds should be struggling with love handles on a low-carb diet if he can keep it up. Mark's my go-to guy for low-tech fitness/diet hacks in the Primal sense. Dave's good with lowering toxins and getting results with no working out at all. I've needed the extra workout bump because of lack of gadgets and an overload of toxins.

  • fixerforhirefixerforhire Mr. Not Sure.


    Yeah, definitely try the refeed. It really made a difference I think. I'm about to do it again today after a massive workout just now (heavy lifting).


     


    Organic white Californian Jasmine rice is the best. Anything from the U.S. helps avoid the arsenic issue. That's really important. Rice is awesome, because it's like pure glucose (almost no fructose at all). Read the article I linked above. 




    I'll give that a go, less a lot of the butter. keep it under 50g.


    thanks for the tip about rice safety. I wouldn't have even thought about that.

  • Thread sucks.


  • Don't forget mark sissons also been a pretty serious athlete and probably has some genetic advantages. Not that he doesn't give some good advice.
  • WalterWalter ✭✭✭


    Don't forget mark sissons also been a pretty serious athlete and probably has some genetic advantages. Not that he doesn't give some good advice.




     


    True, I like his book. Although it's one of the many that implores us to be critical of 'modern life' and all its conveniences, which I think is the best way to stay healthy in general.

  • Modern Life SurvivalistModern Life Survivalist Saturated Fat Truther ✭✭


    True, I like his book. Although it's one of the many that implores us to be critical of 'modern life' and all its conveniences, which I think is the best way to stay healthy in general.




     


    Modern Life is trying to kill you slowly and painfully. Hence the name of my site.  :cool:

Sign In or Register to comment.