My Rflp Progress (34, F, 20Lbs To Lose)

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  • edited April 2014

    It stands for ( R)apid (F)at (L)oss (P)rotocol.  Dave wrote about it here:


     


    http://www.bulletproofexec.com/rapid-fat-loss-protocol/


  • It's so helpful to know that other women are doing the RFLP!


     


    My first week had its ups and downs.  For the most part we stuck to the coffee, supplements, and butter.  On days 4 and 5 we splurged with some grass-fed cheese which was truly wonderful.  


     


    Days 1-5:  Lost 11 lbs (My husband did too!)


    Refeed Day 6: Gain of 2.8lbs 


     


    My husband hides the scales through the week, but I'm hoping for at least 5lbs this upcoming week.  


     


    5'10", 30 years old, starting weight 244lbs, goal weight 170lbs.  


  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited June 2015

    Michelle and mtsquared - awesome first weeks, congrats!


     


    So full disclosure, I am a guy and not on RFLP, but when I first started doing IF and ketosis I studied a lot of this stuff and I think I can shed some light on some of the questions being asked here. Short answer though, listen to Thea and refeed with carbs! Super important. 


     


    Why do we gain weight on refeeds?


     


    When you eat carbs, you will 1) fill your intestines with carbs/fiber and also pull water into your intestines to digest it, and 2) replenish glycogen stores in your liver and muscles. Glycogen is stored sugar in a sugar/water matrix. Larger men have over 500g of glycogen. For every gram of glycogen, there are 2-3g water. Therefore, glycogen can account for up to ~5lbs of non-fat weight fluctuation, maybe call it 4lbs for women. The carbs in your intestines + water for digestion might account for another couple pounds, assuming you drink water to replace fluids once some are pushed into your intestines. Which you should. So you'll have to wait 24-50 hours to poop out the carbs/water in your intestines, depending on your personal intestinal transit time.You can begin burning fat before all the glycogen is gone, but it will take a few days to use up most of the glycogen and get back to your pre-refeed weight.  However, that glycogen is doing really important things like ensuring your intestines have a lining and you don't get poop leaching into your blood stream. So glycogen is not your enemy. Replenish it. If you are not on RFLP, and are getting >50g net carbs (carbs - fiber = net carbs) per day, you could experiment with high intensity interval training the day after your refeed to burn off glycogen faster. But only if you're getting adequate carbs for mucous production throughout the week. 


     


    Why is there a 10lb plateau? 


     


    So you start the RFLP, you lose 2-3lbs of food waste and water in your intestines, then 4lbs glycogen, as well as 4lbs fat. Now, it looks like you've lost 10lbs. That's great for your motivation, but the reality is that you have not lost 10lbs of fat. In fact, if you were eating a standard American diet before starting RFLP, you're not fully fat adapted yet. You'll probably have a week or two where refeed gains make you discouraged, until you really hit your fat loss stride. But you will, because your body has no other choice. Except starvation mode, which brings me to...


     


    Why refeed after 7 days? 


     


    Even if you don't care about your intestinal lining, you definitely care about keeping your metabolism humming along. You need leptin for that, as well as some other hormone players. Thea is correct, the data suggest that you can go lower calorie or carb for about 4-5 days before your body begins to adjust your metabolism, and around the 7th day it really starts to get into "starvation mode" and try to slow down your metabolism as much as possible, as well as potentially make the shift to destroying muscle for energy while preserving fat. Not good, that's skinny-fat + weak and tired. You signal your body that it's OK to stay in fat burning mode by feeding it both higher calories, as well as plenty of carbs. It's true that perhaps that data generalizes, and this is different for different people, but we know that for most people, refeeding on the 7th day is about as far as you can take it and still be metabolically healthy. Plus, intestinal lining! 


     


    Pushing through without carbs/refeeds?


     


    If starvation mode and poop in your blood stream didn't scare you off, consider that that is actually partially digested food particles in your blood stream: once your white blood cells get a hold of those proteins, you become allergic to them. This is why Dave had to stop eating eggs for 6 months. Imagine if you make yourself allergic to butter, and all the refeed carbs you ate as well? How will you lose more weight then? Everything healthy will make you allergic and inflamed. RFLP is not the safest way to lose weight, it is the fastest, and reasonably safe if you follow the instructions perfectly. Eat plenty of carbs on refeed day. 


  • RekaReka ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014


    Michelle and mtsquared - awesome first weeks, congrats!


     


    So full disclosure, I am a guy and not on RFLP, but when I first started doing IF and ketosis I studied a lot of this stuff and I think I can shed some light on some of the questions being asked here. Short answer though, listen to Thea and refeed with carbs! Super important. 


     


    Why do we gain weight on refeeds?


     


    When you eat carbs, you will 1) fill your intestines with carbs/fiber and also pull water into your intestines to digest it, and 2) replenish glycogen stores in your liver and muscles. Glycogen is stored sugar in a sugar/water matrix. Larger men have up to 500g of liver glycogen, and more in muscles. For every gram of glycogen, there are 2-3g water. Therefore, glycogen can account for up to ~5lbs of non-fat weight fluctuation, maybe call it 4lbs for women. The carbs in your intestines + water for digestion might account for another couple pounds, assuming you drink water to replace fluids once some are pushed into your intestines. Which you should. So you'll have to wait 24-50 hours to poop out the carbs/water in your intestines, depending on your personal intestinal transit time.You can begin burning fat before all the glycogen is gone, but it will take a few days to use up most of the glycogen and get back to your pre-refeed weight.  However, that glycogen is doing really important things like ensuring your intestines have a lining and you don't get poop leaching into your blood stream. So glycogen is not your enemy. Replenish it. If you are not on RFLP, and are getting >50g net carbs (carbs - fiber = net carbs) per day, you could experiment with high intensity interval training the day after your refeed to burn off glycogen faster. But only if you're getting adequate carbs for mucous production throughout the week. 


     


    Why is there a 10lb plateau? 


     


    So you start the RFLP, you lose 2-3lbs of food waste and water in your intestines, then 4lbs glycogen, as well as 4lbs fat. Now, it looks like you've lost 10lbs. That's great for your motivation, but the reality is that you have not lost 10lbs of fat. In fact, if you were eating a standard American diet before starting RFLP, you're not fully fat adapted yet. You'll probably have a week or two where refeed gains make you discouraged, until you really hit your fat loss stride. But you will, because your body has no other choice. Except starvation mode, which brings me to...


     


    Why refeed after 7 days? 


     


    Even if you don't care about your intestinal lining, you definitely care about keeping your metabolism humming along. You need leptin for that, as well as some other hormone players. Thea is correct, the data suggest that you can go lower calorie or carb for about 4-5 days before your body begins to adjust your metabolism, and around the 7th day it really starts to get into "starvation mode" and try to slow down your metabolism as much as possible, as well as potentially make the shift to destroying muscle for energy while preserving fat. Not good, that's skinny-fat + weak and tired. You signal your body that it's OK to stay in fat burning mode by feeding it both higher calories, as well as plenty of carbs. It's true that perhaps that data generalizes, and this is different for different people, but we know that for most people, refeeding on the 7th day is about as far as you can take it and still be metabolically healthy. Plus, intestinal lining! 


     


    Pushing through without carbs/refeeds?


     


    If starvation mode and poop in your blood stream didn't scare you off, consider that that is actually partially digested food particles in your blood stream: once your white blood cells get a hold of those proteins, you become allergic to them. This is why Dave had to stop eating eggs for 6 months. Imagine if you make yourself allergic to butter, and all the refeed carbs you ate as well? How will you lose more weight then? Everything healthy will make you allergic and inflamed. RFLP is not the safest way to lose weight, it is the fastest, and reasonably safe if you follow the instructions perfectly. Eat plenty of carbs on refeed day. 




     


     


     


    Now all my likes go on your posts. I keep running out of likes. Better than keeping just running. :D


     


    A question then: so if the liver stores up to 500 g glycogen, and muscles some more, let's suppose it's not totally empty when starting a refeed, still there is place to 500-600 g of sugars. Does this mean that one could eat up to that amount of carbs for refeed without gaining any fat from it, because it will replenish the glycogen stores first? Of course, insulin and cravings and energy swings will make this a bad experience, but it won't result fat gain I suppose (if we eat it with no fat).


    It doesn't get easier... It's you who gets better.

     

    Is your social worker in that horse?

     

    Success has a price, not a secret.

  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭


    A question then: so if the liver stores up to 500 g glycogen, and muscles some more, let's suppose it's not totally empty when starting a refeed, still there is place to 500-600 g of sugars. Does this mean that one could eat up to that amount of carbs for refeed without gaining any fat from it, because it will replenish the glycogen stores first? Of course, insulin and cravings and energy swings will make this a bad experience, but it won't result fat gain I suppose (if we eat it with no fat).




     


    ---


     


    Note: Reka's question is complex, probably beyond the scope of most people in this thread, read if curious, see conclusion below if not. 


     


    Yeah, that's the more detailed question my statements raise, and I don't know the answer. I suspect it's yes, in theory you could store that much, but in practice you cannot. Maybe with very specific carbs, and timing the rate of ingestion you could. It's pretty complex, and one of those "your body is a chemistry experiment, not a bank account" type of things.


     


    A lot of the research on glycogen replenishment is specifically on post-workout replenishment, and dextrose, which Jason Miller mentions in his bulletproofing the athlete thread, comes up a lot. Here's a study that shows different forms of carbs replenish glycogen at different rates post workout. Note that in the conclusion, it mentions "when ingested at a rate designed to saturate intestinal CHO transport systems..." which implies there is a maximum absorption rate for carbs. 


     


    But is that max absorption rate different post workout than during a post-fast refeed? Does your body preferentially store muscle glycogen before liver glycogen post-fast? Is it different post-workout? We know different carbs affect the rate of storage, but do different carbs preferentially focus on muscle vs. liver glycogen? Is there a point at which, or circumstances under which sugar gets stored as fat even when glycogen stores aren't totally full?


     


    These questions are beyond my understanding at this point. 


     


    Conclusion: I think that for the average IFer or RFLP user on a refeed, I think an adequate answer is: eat plenty of carbs, consider eating more than one type, don't chug them all in one go because you might not absorb them all, instead spread them out at least over an afternoon/evening, and avoid tons of fat with those carbs.


     


    For serious athletes, start researching those questions. 

  • Week two was a tough one!  After the 2.8lb gain on refeed, and it being that time of the month, I only lost an additional pound for 12 pounds total.  Easter was not exactly healthy, and I had a 6lb gain!  I'm traveling this week, but really looking forward to returning to RFLP on Sunday.  


     


    We did a little experimenting with grass fed cheese, bacon, and cream cheese.  Having a little variety gave us more to look forward to at the end of the day and ensured we hit the proper calorie totals.  I also enjoyed a bit of cocoa powder in the coffee for a nice change.  


  • grass fed cheese and cream cheese can be VERY inflammatory. I love them too but only have cheese once a month or two and we always pay for it the next few days! 


    Help me get my blog up and running...check it out for recipes and info

    http://adventuresintheuncommon.wordpress.com

     

  • Great information.  I suspected as much, but I was trying to stay optimistic that I had magically lost all that fat and it wasn't just water weight!  lol


  • Hi Michelle - 



    I know this is over a year old but would love to know how the RFLP worked for you. We have (or at least you had before your weight loss:) very similar body's and weight loss goals so would love to know if this worked for you in the end and if you've stuck with bulletproof. Thank you so much for the help! 


     


    I'm 5'4" 135 and looking to lose around 15-20 pounds. 


    thanks!




    Progress update:


     


    4/1     127.6


    4/2     127.2


    4/3     127.0


    4/4     126.8


    4/5     125.8


    4/6     125.0 (refeed day)


    4/7     125.6


    4/8     125.4


     


    So my second week started at 127, I had my refeed and gained .6 lbs, but too basically 4 days to get back to pre-refeed weight & start losing again, which was VERY frustrating.  Once I got back to that point of really losing again on 4/4 - 4/6 it was coming off as quickly as it had the first week though, which was encouraging.


     


    Dave did mention a possible plateau around the first 10lbs, which is about where I was, so I thought perhaps that had to do with it.


     


    On my next refeed on 4/6, I didn't "refeed" that much... I focused on eating fats and proteins and did NOT do the sweet potato/rice thing... I felt like eating them on my first refeed stalled my progress when it had been going so well and I don't have that far to go to get to my goal. There were incidental carbs adding up to about 35 grams plus 112 grams of fat and 72 grams of protein.


     


    Now I'm seeing history repeat itself - that is, even though I didn't carb-up on my next 4/6 refeed, my body seems to be reacting the same way - I didn't actually gain much from the refeed, but I'm not losing it quickly either, just like the first week when I did have a lot of carbs.


     


    When I was doing the slow-carb Tim Ferriss thing, we would do the "cheat days" and it took me a long time to recover from those as well - but they were loaded with junk food, so I thought that was more part of it... But these two refeed days have been very clean/Bulletproof eating, so that's not the culprit.


     


    So I'm a little puzzled why it's taking my body as long to recover from the refeed as it is... It took me about 24 hours to get back in ketosis the first refeed and I never left ketosis the second refeed (according to pee sticks).


     


    I'm considering NOT doing the next refeed and just trucking though until I reach my goal of about 120.


     


    And I'm wondering about "starvation mode." Eating butter all the time is OK, I'm mostly used to it and don't really get hungry anymore. But I'm not eating my "maintenance" calories by any means, I just can't eat that much butter in a day. I burn about 1800 calories per day and am eating between 800-1200 - usually closer to 800. I just can't stomach more butter than that.


     


    On traditional/low calorie diets I have to eat about 1000 calories/day to see progress, and even then it's slow.


     


    I'm worried that I'm not eating enough right now and am putting my body in "starvation mode." I've not ever actually seen relevant research on that being a real thing, what it takes to actually get there, etc., but would love to.


     


    In total I've lost 12.2 lbs in 14 days, which is more than I could ever achieve with any other method, so I'm very happy - I just can't help but feel that without the refeed, I'd be farther along.



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