Considering Trying A New Lifting Approach

I've been focusing on fat loss for the past 8 weeks and am about to shift my focus back to strength/muscle building, this time being more conscious about avoiding excess weight accumulation in my midsection (not good for agility or endurance...or health). Capoeira is still my main priority and I can't be too destroyed to teach/train, and don't want something that makes it so I can't do the other things I enjoy (hiking, yoga, slacklining, drumming). I've done body by science for over a year and have gotten a bit stronger but wonder if changing things up for a while would be a good stimulus for me. Plus I am kind of curious about trying free weights, which I've never done before, and feel like I should at least develop some competency with.


So, is there a weightlifting approach you folks would recommend to someone active like me? I hear stronglifts 5x5 recommended a lot for newbies and just read up on it, would that be a good place to start?


If I do stronglifts (or something else):

-would it be best to do the lifting on days when I don't have more intense capoeira training, or better to do them on the same days so I can get more rest on rest days?


Would I still benefit from HIIT sprints or would I want to leave that out? If it's doable, would it be ideal to it on a day without lifting, or after a lifting session, or after a capoeira class?


This is my current schedule:


Sunday sprints when able

Monday work 7am-3pm

Tuesday capoeira 6pm-7:30pm

Wednesday capoeira 6pm-7:30pm

Thursday capoeira (kids class) 6pm-7pm, BBS

Friday rest day/work 3pm-overnight

Saturday capoeira (short class+roda) 10am-12pm


I also tend to pick up shifts Saturdays and occasionally other days. The rest of the time I'm indulging in the activities mentioned earlier (or chillin!).


I'm thinkin if I did stronglifts it would be Monday evening, Thursday evening, and Saturday evening (or afternoon if I pick up an evening shift).


....or is my lifestyle just not suited for developing the muscle mass to lift heavy?

Comments

  • pd85pd85
    edited April 2015

    It all depends on your goals. If you want strength, choose a strength program. If you want to jump higher, do a jumping higher program. If you want body composition, do a lot of hypertrophy training and focus on your diet. 


     


    I definitely agree that you should be using free weights though, they are the bee's knees. You really develop great kinesthetic awareness and strength with them. 


     


    Keep in mind that serious weight training will leave you sore as hell until your body adjusts to it.


  • I wish I had read Dan John's book before speading so much time on BBS. One of the very few recomendations that Dave has given that has not worked out.


     


    http://danjohn.net/2012/11/intervention-the-book/



  • I'd go with the strong lifts on Monday and Thursday with HIIT on Saturday when available. Alternatively you can do a typical hypertrophy style rep range with the same movements as the stronglifts (5+ sets with 10-12 reps per exercise)




     


    Cool, so in your opinion the value of getting in a HIIT session once a week is worth doing one less lifting session? And by alternatively you mean doing the hypertrophy training in place of the HIIT or doing the hypertrophy rep range for the 2 lifting sessions?


     




    It all depends on your goals. If you want strength, choose a strength program. If you want to jump higher, do a jumping higher program. If you want body composition, do a lot of hypertrophy training and focus on your diet. 


     


    I definitely agree that you should be using free weights though, they are the bee's knees. You really develop great kinesthetic awareness and strength with them. 


     


    Keep in mind that serious weight training will leave you sore as hell until your body adjusts to it.




     


    I would say my goals are to get the health/psychological/lifestyle benefits of having functional strength, and a decent amount of muscle mass without interfering with my agility/mobility/flexibility. Really, my lifestyle provides pretty much everything i need, except for a progressive overload strength-building type thing, and adding a weighted vest to my capoeira training would just be weird. So, for me lifting would be more of a supplement than a meal. 


     




    I wish I had read Dan John's book before speading so much time on BBS. One of the very few recomendations that Dave has given that has not worked out.


     


    http://danjohn.net/2012/11/intervention-the-book/




     


     


    clif's notes? i'm just looking for something simple and effective. not a lot of time spent on a lot of exercises and learning a ton of stuff. 

  • awesome, thanks for the input. a buddy of mine i haven't seen for a while offered to get me started with lifting a long time ago and i told him i'd get ahold of him if i decided to start a different program, so i texted him and he is pretty amped to get me started, and said he's a big fan of the 5x5 strong lifts so i think i'll get started with this sometime in the next week or two. 


  • I don't want to be the guy that jumps in says "I told you so" but I do believe I had my objections from day one for BBS which was unheeded.


     


    Can you quantify "A bit stronger"? Curious after a one year what that looks like.


  • i started out at seated row: 110 lbs, chest press 110 lbs, lat pulldown: 110 lbs, overhead press: 50 lbs, leg press 250 lbs


    lately i've done seated row: 130 lbs, chest press 160 lbs, lat pulldown 140 lbs, overhead press 70 lbs, leg press 350 lbs


     


    i was doing all of my reps super slow (about 10 seconds up, 10 seconds down), and whenever it got to the point that i was able to maintain that for 2 minutes i'd increase weight. i've been intentionally cutting weight and not focusing on optimizing the lifting for the past 2 and a half months and figured it'd be a good time to switch up the routine and see if i notice a difference as i go back to normal strength-building calorie intake. 


  • DManDMan Master of Arts ✭✭✭

    You can do BBS training with free weights too.


     


    My only problem with BBS so far is that I increased my weights so much over time that I had to make adjustments to the classic approach... and I injured my back from deadlifting over time. Slowly over weeks. But I found out through biofeedback training that probably all I have to do is put one foot 3 inches in front of the other.


     


    But besides that I enjoy BBS.


    May you be well, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be loved.

    How much to eat:
    advanced | How to train: bulletproof training | HRV: HRV FOR TRAINING HRV BASICS What Affects HRV | Brain  & Memory dual n back training advanced training

     

     

  • Capoeira is a good choice.


     


    As others have mentioned, it all depends on goals. If you just want raw strength to lift a barbell, there are plenty of programs and (it seems) Jason Miller can probably help more.


     


    If you want some mobility / functional muscle, try some acro yoga, acrobatics/ gymnastics and keep doing capoeira. 


  • The past two months I have been doing gymnastic type workout using parallette bars every other day, GMB.io The alternative days I am doing yoga with mobility work With deadlift and squats on Saturdays. I have not lost any size or strength.
  • cool, its interesting hearing about other folks' routines and how you balance your weight training with other activities. i've been sampling the free trials at gyms near me and i just settled on joining the YMCA, turned out to be the cheapest option with decent equipment. i just finished my 4th stronglifts "workout", which is kind of slow-going because you start with super low weight to get the form down, so i'm cheating and sticking to the program but without rest days until i get a little further into it.. feels good so far, i'm looking forward to when it actually gets challenging, and seeing how well i can balance that with my other activities. so far i've walked out feeling more warmed up than worn out, not sure if that'll be the case in another month or two though. 


  • No rest days!? Nice! Rest when you sleep :) just make that a priority. Especially with the demands the 5x5 training will be putting on your CNS. As you probably know the first few months will be the adaptation phase, so that sleep/recovery will mos def need to be as on point as possible.


     


    Are you incorporating any deadlifts and/or front squats?


  • well, like i said, the first few weeks suuuuper light weight. its tempting to say "fuck it, i can handle more weight, lets do this!" and just start in the middle somewhere, but i think the gradual start will help me avoid any major fuckups in form that lead to injury. so, yeah, no "rest" needed, not even any carbs needed yet (except the other day i did some intense capoeira training afterwards). once it actually gets challenging i'll have to experiment with doing stronglifts on my easy days with less full-on "rest days", vs. stronglifts on days when i'm already doing intense workouts so i can have the easy days be more like rest days. the light squats and deadlifts leave me feeling energized and strong...perfect for capoeira afterwards, but that might not be the case for long. 


     


    no front squats, but regular squats every workout, and deadlifts every other workout.


  • I (again, I plan more then I execute...) try and keep a 'holy trinity' for exercise:


    Weightlifting (5x5 is my go-to, though I'm really drawn to Simple & Sinister... don't have kettlebells, though. :(  )


    HIIT (I use a system recommended by Lifehacker a while back. 8 seconds high, 12 seconds low, 60 rounds (20 minutes). You need a coach or app to keep track. I'm usually so out of it by the end, that counting reps is almost impossible.)


    Yoga (I've been using this as my 'warm up' for the other two)


     


    Strenght, cardio, flexibility. I do weights on Monday-Friday, and the HIIT on Wednesdays, and a half-hour yoga routine (got a great app for that) before. Now that the weather is a bit warmer, I've been going to the pool after as well. Mostly to cool down, but if I can cash in on some hypoxic DHEA and cold thermogenesis... bonus.


  • I've streamlined my workouts based on a few ideas.  Firstly, I decided to lookup the optimal recovery time between sets and after reading a number of pubmed articles see it as 2-3 minutes.  This time allows for maximum strength and size gains.


    For sort of exercises I want to do heavy, multi-joint exercises where-ever possible and feel 3 sets is fine.  I should also say that I am doing the most weight possible and so am lifting quite heavy, to failure for my last set.  Everything put together it ends up being like this for example:


    squats 8 reps when done set timer to 2 minutes


    weighted lunges 8 reps


    When alarm goes off go back to squats.


    seated calf raises 8 reps when done set timer to 2 minutes


    Triceps pullover and press 8 reps 

    When alarm goes off go back to calf raises.

    Close grip chin-ups with weight 8 reps when done set timer to 2 minutes

    bosu ball sit ups with weight 8 reps

    When alarm goes off go back to chin ups

    The whole workout takes about 30 min after this I sit in the sauna for 30 min

     

    This workout is done 4x a week so that is arms, legs and abs with shoulders, chest, and back done on the other days.  

    I have gotten excellent results from this workout though am not sure if the sauna does, as Dr. Rhonda Patrick says boost my HGH levels by 4x and  thus give me a size difference.  I can say that I feel the cleanse is beneficial and I do like the calming effect of sitting in silence for that 30 min.

  • hm, that 2-3 minute rest thing is cool. i'm using the stronglifts app and it has a timer built in, it says to wait 90 seconds if the set was easy, 3 minutes if it was challenging, and 5 minutes at the very most i think. i added in chin ups and dips to my stronglifts when i discovered those in the app, which is nice because so far the other lifts are still too light to really give me much of a challenge....i ordered a dipping belt and am going to add weight incrementally.


  • Hey dude,


     


    I, too, value freedom of movement, mobility, agility, strength, speed... all of the things you mentioned. Overall health has these components, and just, pure absolute strength no longer motivates me like it used to.


     


    That being said, there is certainly a time and place for heavy, slow weight training. Back Squats, Barbell Lunges, Deadlifts, Overhead press and weighted pull-ups should all be staples in any training program.


     


    Build a solid base by performing each of the major lifts above with heavy weight a minimum of once a week. Challenge yourself. Take maybe 6 months mastering these movements, and another 6 months building up a solid foundation of strength here which will give you a very strong (no pun intended) foundation to work with. Honestly, this is the minimum amount of time I would spend and suggest even longer period of strength gain as it will be a great base to build from. I would also improve mastery of basic gymnastics during this time and incorporate plenty of core and single arm/ single leg unilateral work to address imbalances. Single arm farmer's walks, overhead carries, handstands, handstand walks, scapular stability, single arm weighted lunges, overhead lunges, etc.


     


    Once this is done, you can adopt a more minimalist and functional movement type of practice, with touches on the heavy lifts. I currently only train 3x a week for 15-20 minutes at a time, mixing Olympic lifting, some plyometrics, lots of gymnastics, and a few slow and heavy lifts. I also practice yoga daily for 70-85 minutes at a studio, mixing Ashtanga sequencing with power/ vinyasa flow variations. The yoga is a fantastic compliment to balance out my weight training.


     


    Good luck and have fun with it. Training should serve our purpose of living a more athletic life, and be an enjoyable process. Challenge yourself, but enjoy it :)



  • well, like i said, the first few weeks suuuuper light weight. its tempting to say "fuck it, i can handle more weight, lets do this!" and just start in the middle somewhere, but i think the gradual start will help me avoid any major fuckups in form that lead to injury. so, yeah, no "rest" needed, not even any carbs needed yet (except the other day i did some intense capoeira training afterwards). once it actually gets challenging i'll have to experiment with doing stronglifts on my easy days with less full-on "rest days", vs. stronglifts on days when i'm already doing intense workouts so i can have the easy days be more like rest days. the light squats and deadlifts leave me feeling energized and strong...perfect for capoeira afterwards, but that might not be the case for long. 


     


    no front squats, but regular squats every workout, and deadlifts every other workout.




     


    Hows everything been going with the 5x5 drumm?


     


    I started with BBS for the last 4 months with mild gains and just started Strong lifts 5x5. I feel way better, stronger, and wayyyy more sore lol


     


    Just been trying to keep the progression with weight since its super light in the start, but came to realize it all comes down to proper form.

  • It's goin good so far! I have stuck with the program but kinda expedited the first few weeks by skipping rest days. Still easy pretty much but on the verge of getting challenging with some lifts. On Monday I'll be doing the overhead press at the same weight I was doing with body by science, but, stronglifts style, so I can get a better idea how they compare when doing similar weights. I added in chin ups and dips so that at least provides more of a workout, I added weight to my dips but haven't hit the 3x10 on pull-ups at body weight yet, but I think I will Monday. Also usually following up with my bridge mobility routine, and did sprints afterwards once but I'm guessing that won't work so well at higher weights.
  • so i'm still doing this, and figured i'd report back and maybe get some feedback:


     


    i've kept with my schedule of doing stronglifts monday/thursday/saturday with the exception of a missed day a few weeks ago, then about a week and a half off because of a capoeira training intensive. as you can see from the graph, i was progressing pretty consistently with most of the lifts until just a couple weeks before that break, and after the break did a 10% deload, which is what mehdi recommends you do if you take more than a week off. i actually felt kind of relieved because i was at the point where all of the lifts were really challenging, and the break combined with the capoeira event (which throws my sleep way outta whack) would've probably wrecked my chances of hitting any PRs or anything. so last week i got back to it with the weights 10% lighter, which felt good, and i'm working my way back up pretty comfortably so far. 


     


    as far as balancing it with my other activities, i've noticed that it has perhaps taken away a little bit of my capoeira mobility, or at least made it so that i have to warm up more and put more effort into doing the things that i was doing a little more easily before lifting weights. i still have a good amount of endurance but not as much as i've had in the past.  of course part of that is that i'm training my capoeira a little less and putting more energy (time/effort/nutrition) into the stronglift sessions. that's mostly because i have this tendency to want to follow protocols to a T, so when they talk about how you need have rest days between the lifts i really try to keep my activities on those days light most of the time, except wednesdays when i usually lead a little more strenuous advanced capoeira class. so, now that i'm back at it with this 10% deload i've been playing around with just adding in a bit of capoeira movement after the lifting sessions, nothing super long but maybe 15-20 minutes of bridges, handstands, kicks, queda de rins, lunging escapes, etc, and maybe wrap up with some passive hanging just to do some last grip work and stretch my shoulders.  it's felt good so far (and is free advertising at the gym!), but i'm curious to see if i can keep that up when the weights get back to being really hard. i'm not sure how that's going to work. is this a good way to maintain the mobility/strength, and get a little extra cardio? or will trying to do this stuff after intense lifts put me at a greater risk of injury? it's pretty low impact stuff, but there's definitely strength and coordination involved. 


     


     


    5iJvlCOzr.png


     


    blue = squat   gray=bench press    green= deadlift       purple=overhead press      orange = barbell row    red=body weight


    oh, and not shown are weighted dips, which peaked at 70lb before the deload, and weighted chips at 45 lb before the deload


  • awesome, thanks, that all makes a lot of sense. after hearing you talk about the "eat your fitbit" thing i've been really tempted to get a fitbit, at the risk of looking like a bigger dork than i already do. but i'm curious to see what it estimates my calorie consumption to be. and also to see what my heart rate's doing during various activities. my funds are too tight for it at the moment, but i'll probably try it eventually. too bad you can't just rent one for a week or something.


     


    i like that idea of alternating the lifts and other training. on saturdays i do usually lift after my capoeira class, but usually with a couple hours in between. the one time i did lift immediately after class i definitely felt a bit weaker, but it might've just been an off day. but yeah, definitely in the long term i think i might intentionally experiment with that more.


     


    so far the lifting hasn't really made me feel too sore. tight, weak, less mobile, sitting down for long periods is less comfortable, but not the excruciating soreness a lot of people complain about, even after extremely challenging weights. so that kind of gives me the impression that there's room for me to do be doing more. 


  • drumminangoleirodrumminangoleiro ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016

    one year anniversary of starting Stronglifts! hit a squat PR - 285, and deadlifted more than 2x bodyweight for the first time officially (thank you calorie cut!). getting super close to my squat goal. not sure what i'll do once i hit that...maybe add volume or switch to a different squat variation, or just work at going even deeper!


     


    12963726_10204714731668714_4346609258444


  • Great thread.  I will look into the 5x5 for a lifting routine I can do with my 15 yo. athlete.  He wants to get ripped, I need to build strength (an keep up with him ;)


     


    Bulletproof forums delivers yet again


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