Avocado production killing off the Mexican forest

According to an article, 30-40% of forests in Mexico are destroyed to have more space for avocado farming for export, as avocados became popular. :(

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Comments

  • It's more of a question of how the farming is being done long term imo. I'm pretty versed in ecology and permaculture and I believe that we can build strong resilient ecosystems while growing food.

    Bulletproof OG, SIBO survivor, Cascadian, Anarchist, and musician.

    "There's no such thing as a belief that does not have a consequence." - Tony Robbins

  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016

    When Trump's wall goes up next year, how are the Mexicans going to get us our avocados? Is Dave Asprey going to have to become like a drug lord, ordering the BP diehards to act as avocado mules to get them across the border?

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  • edited November 2016

    ..... Hey kid.... Wanna buy an avocado?...

    Bulletproof OG, SIBO survivor, Cascadian, Anarchist, and musician.

    "There's no such thing as a belief that does not have a consequence." - Tony Robbins

  • @Agora_Black_Flag said:
    It's more of a question of how the farming is being done long term imo. I'm pretty versed in ecology and permaculture and I believe that we can build strong resilient ecosystems while growing food.

    Until we vote with our dollar, that ain't gonna change.

    More insidious yet, they'll start labeling avocados grown with tomatoes and peppers as "permaculture avocados". Yet, no Mexican forest, no animals, no diversity. Just turning a monoculture into a tri-culture. No amount of companion-cropping will save all of the "useless" plants/animals, nor any "useless" genetics of otherwise useful plants/animals.

    Not to dog permaculture. It's still an infinitely better form of food production. But it's not going to "save the Earth". I'm of the opinion that every farm-space should be surrounded and intersected by large swaths of undisturbed old-growth forest. Also, less humans and a bigger Earth.

  • Until we vote with our dollar, that ain't gonna change.

    This is a part of it no doubt but I don't think it's even close to enough. We need to vote with our actions. I live in an intentional community and we produce all our own food (practically). I have to move it all south though because the climate is better down there and I live across from a conventional farming field that is making my deathly ill. NEVER LIVE NEAR A CONVENTIONAL FARM. In order to be in charge we have to seize the means of producing our own food either as individuals or communities. We have 50 years of top soil, if we don't start creating it for ourselves we will run out. Period. Nobody is going to save us.

    This is the only real Bulletproof approach imo.

    Just turning a monoculture into a tri-culture.

    I have no preference towards native plants within food production systems, at all. What I care about is results. Biodiversity can be achieved in systems designed for food production. First you start with ground cover which should probably be around 6 different plants (russian comfrey is god) to begin with, then you have to introduce pollinators lets say 2 different, then the shrub layer which can have any different number of plants but lets say just 2 for this example, then sub canopy so lets say 3 different kinds of dwarf trees here, then you have your main canopy which should probably have a least 3 different kinds of trees mixed together.

    Look up guilds, we don't have to reinvent these. Surely there are more but this isn't new.

    So from this example you have 16 main different kinds of plants from a food production system. So then lets mix in our animals, chickens, goats, cows, etc. Then you have wild animals (which will come with ground cover lol). And that's assuming you do the same guild or combination over your whole field which would be weird because you would get a shit ton of the same food over and over. Who wants that? Then lets talk about the fungi level that results from a good top soil.

    That is a real fuckin community you've got going there.

    Further, Aquaponics has a place in all of this. It should be the primary food production system on Earth imo. HOWEVER this doesn't really apply to growing Avocado trees. And it sure kicks the shit out of eating fish out of polluted water.

    should be surrounded and intersected by large swaths of undisturbed old-growth forest

    This is a part of Permaculture zoning. This is really Permaculture 101, not to be shitty but to suggest that perhaps you might like Permaculture a lot more if you learned more about it.

    http://www.jandjacres.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/PermacultureZonesCone.png

    The number one book I would suggest is Gaia's Garden Vol II and the reason why is because it's the most practical information I have found. There's also the reddit on Permaculture.

    Feel free to ask any other questions.

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    Bulletproof OG, SIBO survivor, Cascadian, Anarchist, and musician.

    "There's no such thing as a belief that does not have a consequence." - Tony Robbins

  • Then we're all agreed!

    I'm actually way into permaculture. Read all the books, even helped start an almost-permaculture farm a mile down the road myself!

    Sorry about the definition confusion. Whenever I referred to Permaculture, I was actually referring to the crop production part alone. If you include forest preservation/management in the definition, then definitely, it can preserve biodiversity.

    My points still stand, which I'm sure you agree with:

    1. No matter how diverse your guild of "useful" plants is, a large amount of "useless" and "pestilent" lifeforms are bound to be excluded.

    2. More specifically, even if the most efficient guilds were created, Mexican forests would not be saved by INCREASED land use for avocado production, due to the point above. There's more economic incentive to efficiently produce avocados/associated plants then there is to preserve the forests, simply put. Again with the dollar/action vote.

    I've seen too many well-meaning permaculture farms yield to economic realities and compromise on their ideals. STILL better than conventional agriculture! But like you said, more must be done than expecting dollars to save us.

    You should PM me about your community/permaculture philosophy sometime! Always down to connect.

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