Viome

Anyone doing Viome's thing? I'm curious what the experience is like, if they really are ready to start testing the stuff they are claiming...

https://www.viome.com

Comments

  • I am also curious about this test. I asked them if they had any examples of the test results and they said no. Hard to sign up at $100 per month when youhave no idea what you will be getting.

  • jcg3jcg3 ✭✭

    There are some screenshots in their app in the iOS app store, but just looks like a questionnaire for when you're first setting things up.

  • I went ahead and signed up. I'll post what I get from viome.

  • edited April 18

    I received the package from Viome. Nice packaging. First pic is of the package.

    The biome test (gut intelligence) is pretty standard. Poop, get some, put in vial, mix and mail to Viome.

    I feel a little deceived about the blood test (Metabolic Intelligence). I thought it was going to be an actual blood test you send in. But it is just a blood glucose response test. The Challenge Powder is just 40 gms glucose and 6 gms cream of tartar. Attached is the questionnaire for this test. At least they provide a glucose tester and all the equipment necessary.

    Will be interesting to see what results they provide.!


  • Thanks for sharing that with us 418. I'm interested in knowing what one gets back and the types of recommendations they give. Eat more greens....? Probably don't need a test for that! :)

  • I finally received this email from Viome today...

    Great news! We've successfully sequenced your Gut Intelligence™ sample and are now interpreting your results. Although we're working around the clock to analyze your data as quickly as possible, our demand has rapidly grown and we're experiencing a minor delay.

    We know you're eager to receive your results and recommendations. To say thank you for your patience, we won't charge you for your second month of membership until you've received your results.

    Your Viome Insight results and recommendations will be loaded into your app in the next 3 weeks, and we'll contact you as soon as they're available.

    If you have any questions, please let us know.

    Yours in Wellness,
    The Viome Team

    3 weeks for a self learning AI system to give recommendations seems like a long time to me - unless with my luck I'm one of the first people it is learning from!

    I have been thinking that Viome is stringing this out to get more payments from me - So it is nice though that they are delaying the membership payment.

  • dazdaz today is a good day ✭✭✭
    edited May 18

    Mr 'potato hack', Tim Steele, briefly discussed Viome (amongst other gut flora testing services) here;
    https://potatohack.com/2017/05/08/gut-testing-services/
    & a bit of the text;
    " Perhaps Jain has invented a better way to test gut flora than the world’s standard, 16S. But if he has, he’s not talking about it and there are no papers describing it, that I can find. And after 2 years of biotech graduate studies, I can tell you that I have not heard of anything better than 16S for analyzing gut bacteria. Or anything else. Period. "

    fake it till you make it

  • @daz said:
    Mr 'potato hack', Tim Steele, briefly discussed Viome (amongst other gut flora testing services) here;
    https://potatohack.com/2017/05/08/gut-testing-services/
    & a bit of the text;
    " Perhaps Jain has invented a better way to test gut flora than the world’s standard, 16S. But if he has, he’s not talking about it and there are no papers describing it, that I can find. And after 2 years of biotech graduate studies, I can tell you that I have not heard of anything better than 16S for analyzing gut bacteria. Or anything else. Period. "

    Thank you for this article!

  • jcg3jcg3 ✭✭

    I agree - the article is quite interesting.

    Isn't Viome supposed to be looking at the fungal and yeast flora in the gut?

    If they're going to do everything they promised, I could imagine using 16S and some other analysis on the same samples. But the 3 weeks for the self-learning AI sounds like they're currently building as they go... not a horrible strategy in software (or at least, not uncommon), but quite a challenge in biology/lab testing.

    @418Auburnman Thanks for sharing!

  • So I finally got the results today. I attached screenshots of the results in the app.

    The graphs are pretty neat, but very disappointed in their recommendations. Although honestly, I'm not really sure how to read the graphs!

    But I had hope - the app said detailed results are on your account. So I went there and here it is:

    These are your baseline diet recommendations.
    You will benefit from a diet that emphasizes complex carbohydrates and is lower in heavy proteins and fats in order to balance your body’s energy production and feed your microbiome.
    At each meal or over the day, you should aim for the following ratio of macronutrients as a percentage of calories:
    Protein – 25% to 30%
    Fats – 20% to 30%
    Carbohydrates – 40% to 55%
    Remember that most protein foods contain some fat, so pay attention to your ratio of protein and carbohydrate.
    Eat until you are comfortably satiated or 80% full. If you find yourself over-eating or craving food, you should adjust your macronutrient ratios. For example, if you start to crave sweets, increase the amount of protein in your previous meal or snack.
    Monitor how you feel, including your hunger, energy level, and mood one to three hours after eating. If you feel worse in any of these areas, you will need to adjust your ratios at the next meal. You can range from 40% to 55% carbohydrate and 20% to 30% fat and protein.
    You should eat three meals a day, and snack as needed. However, you will likely not need to snack in between meals.
    If you are very active or under a significant amount of stress you will likely need to adjust to the higher end of protein and fat ratio for that day.
    Enjoy the foods listed in green, eat the foods listed in yellow, but in moderation, and avoid the foods listed in red.
    Emphasize non-starchy vegetables as your main source of carbohydrates. You can add fruits, whole grains, and starchy vegetables as a portion of your carbohydrate intake.
    Go for variety - try to not eat the same foods every day.
    Aim for eating at least one serving of each color of fruits and vegetables per day (green, red, orange, yellow, blue, purple).
    Eat organic meat, eggs, and produce whenever possible.
    Drink a total of 6 to 8 glasses of water per day, try adding fresh lemon juice or apple cider vinegar to your water.
    If you know you are allergic or have a sensitivity to any food, then please avoid that food.
    Avoid eating three hours before you go to bed.
    Do not overcook or blacken animal foods.
    Never heat oils to the smoking point.
    Be sure in include raw vegetables in your diet.
    Soak all grains, flours, legumes, nuts, and seeds, prior to cooking (See instructions below).
    Whole grains:
    1. To soak grains, place grain in a bowl and cover completely with filtered warm water.
    2. For every one cup of liquid, add 1 tsp of lemon juice or raw apple cider vinegar.
    3. Cover the bowl and soak for 12 to 24 hours at room temperature.
    4. Buckwheat, brown rice, and millet should be soaked for 8 hours.
    5. When done soaking, drain the water and cook normally.
    Flour:
    1. To soak flour to use in your recipes, add the liquids from the recipe (water, oil etc) and flour together.
    2. For every one cup of liquid, add 1 tsp of lemon juice or raw apple cider vinegar.
    3. Cover and allow to soak for 8 hours.
    4. When finished soaking, proceed with the normal recipe.
    5. If making yeast bread, reserve 1/2 cup water to dissolve yeast and use rest of liquids for soaking.
    Legumes:
    1. Put legumes in a bowl, and add enough water to cover them.
    2. Add a pinch of baking soda.
    3. Soak at room temperature for 12 to 24 hours, while changing the water and baking soda at least once.
    4. Rinse and cook normally.
    1. Put raw nuts in a bowl and cover with warm water.
    2. Add a tbsp of sea salt.
    3. Soak at room temperature for 7 to 8 hours.
    4. Drain nuts and spread on a cookie sheet.
    5. Dry in oven at lowest temperature for 12 to 24 hours until completely dry.

    When it says to eat the green foods and avoid the red ones, just look at the bulletproof road map and you will get the same results. Shockingly, it told me to avoid processed meats. Duh!

    Someone please tell me that I haven't wasted my money. I know you will be lying but hopefully it will make me feel better.

    I will be canceling this service and don't recommend it to anyone.

  • jcg3jcg3 ✭✭

    @418Auburnman - I'm not going to lie to you... it does look like generic advice that would apply to almost anyone. Thanks for sharing so that the rest of us know what we're (not) missing out on.

    I'm getting the same type of situation with all sorts of different services I've tried... 23andMe, uBiome, FitnessGenes, IQYou... outside of a few specific situations when you have something rare or really wrong, all they really do is give you some background information while the lifestyle choices remain the same - eat well, move around and exercise occasionally, don't get too stressed, sleep enough, and try not to get sick.

    It's possible Viome is still building stuff as-they-go and it will get better over time... but you have to weigh the cost against your current benefits. For Viome, that's the risk of launching when they're really not ready with unique analysis and recommendations - disappoint some of the early and eager customers. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and guess they have more in store for the future... but I'm going to wait for them to prove it before believing it.

    I did just poke around on the viome website, saw they have a table on the following page comparing 16S Sequencing to "Viome Metatranscriptome Sequencing".

    https://www.viome.com/our-science/

    It might be good marketing copy, but doesn't really match up with what they delivered.

    If you're willing, maybe contact them before cancelling and ask some questions about where to find that specific information in the app. "Where do I see 'the metabolites that are being produced and which are missing' in the app?" Or "where do I get the information to 'minimize the microbial species associated with poor health'?"

  • cortextcortext ✭✭
    edited June 2

    So, for $1,200/yr worth of gut-analysis... looking at the Results.pdf file, they're able to confirm that your gut looks about like a human's gut, then give you the personalized recommendation of a 30-40% carb + 30-40% fat mix over a 40% protein diet. At 2800 calories/d, what is that, like 280g of protein (that's like 100 grams of protein at every meal) and a fuel ratio that would sort of maximally store calories as body fat and elevate triglycerides with substrate competition in the randle cycle.

    Specifically in the diet recommendations, they're recommending refined carbohydrate wheat flours and roasted nuts / polyunsaturated fats... hmm. Interestingly, they're looking at a higher protein:fat ratio on active days rather than a higher carb+protein:fat ratio.

    I was really thinking about buying into this service, where I'm actually pretty hesitant now. (Eg. uBiome is currently doing virtually-free gut panels in their SmartGut pilot program -- if your insurance won't cover it, uBiome picks up the tab.)

  • Here is what I sent this morning and what I received. I will say - their customer service has been pretty good.

    Me:
    I have received and reviewed my results and recommendations. Thank you for that.
    However, I find the recommendations to be too generic.
    A generic question - will I receive updated recommendations or will the next set come with the next test?
    Specific questions:
    1. The website states that Viome points out which metabolites are present and those that are missing. I cannot find in the app anywhere that shows this.
    2. The recommended macronutrient percentages are very broad - will this be refined to be specific to me? The guidelines you give are very broad.
    3. I scored low on the Body Score. No where does it address this or give any recommendations. Forthcoming?
    4. None of the graphs are intuitive. Is there a help article on how to interpret these?
    5. The Viome website also states that it evaluates and recommends priobiotics. I do not see any recommendations or results for probiotics.
    There absolutely is a lot of information included in the app. But honestly it may be too much and there is no corresponding recommendations. I feel that Viome has over-promised and under-delivered.
    I would really like to continue to be a customer, but I need more the program to be closer to what was advertised.

    Viome:
    Dear Frank,

    Thank you for your feedback and your patience. Although the recommendations may appear to be generic, these were hand crafted for you by our top medical researchers. Recommendations will trickle in throughout the year, usually starting with easily actionable foods to avoid, minimize or enjoy more of. You should see those lists as you click on the food colors.
    1. The results charts show you which metabolites are present as you click on each and drill down through the various charts. By showing you the percentile compared to different populations, you can see which ones you need to increase.
    2. I can't see your particular recommendations, but these were done with you in mind. As time goes on, there will be more clarity.
    3. This also will become more clear as we incorporate user feedback such as yours.
    4. Same as #3.
    5. Probiotics recommendations will be made to some customers, as needed, after the initial recommendations. It's part of the "trickling in".

    Frank, we are a new company and are working as fast as possible to meet the demands of our customers. Feedback like yours will help us do that and help you as well. Please continue to be patient as we try to do beyond what is humanly possible with this technology.

    I plan to give them one more cycle of tests to see if anything improves. The expense (right now) is less than my curiosity. I'll report back in a couple of months.

  • jcg3jcg3 ✭✭

    Hmm... Artificial Intelligence vs "hand crafted for you by our top medical researchers"?

    Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

  • Thank you for sharing this - I had been on the fence for this. I am definitely going to hold off now

  • I used Genova Diagnostics: GI Effects Comprehensive Stool Testing, twice. It is the lab I chose and my ND uses them too. The test is cheaper if you can ask you Doc to order for you about $150, the rest insurance picks up.

  • @418Auburnman said:
    So I finally got the results today. I attached screenshots of the results in the app.

    The graphs are pretty neat, but very disappointed in their recommendations. Although honestly, I'm not really sure how to read the graphs!

    But I had hope - the app said detailed results are on your account. So I went there and here it is:

    These are your baseline diet recommendations.
    You will benefit from a diet that emphasizes complex carbohydrates and is lower in heavy proteins and fats in order to balance your body’s energy production and feed your microbiome.
    At each meal or over the day, you should aim for the following ratio of macronutrients as a percentage of calories:
    Protein – 25% to 30%
    Fats – 20% to 30%
    Carbohydrates – 40% to 55%
    Remember that most protein foods contain some fat, so pay attention to your ratio of protein and carbohydrate.
    Eat until you are comfortably satiated or 80% full. If you find yourself over-eating or craving food, you should adjust your macronutrient ratios. For example, if you start to crave sweets, increase the amount of protein in your previous meal or snack.
    Monitor how you feel, including your hunger, energy level, and mood one to three hours after eating. If you feel worse in any of these areas, you will need to adjust your ratios at the next meal. You can range from 40% to 55% carbohydrate and 20% to 30% fat and protein.
    You should eat three meals a day, and snack as needed. However, you will likely not need to snack in between meals.
    If you are very active or under a significant amount of stress you will likely need to adjust to the higher end of protein and fat ratio for that day.
    Enjoy the foods listed in green, eat the foods listed in yellow, but in moderation, and avoid the foods listed in red.
    Emphasize non-starchy vegetables as your main source of carbohydrates. You can add fruits, whole grains, and starchy vegetables as a portion of your carbohydrate intake.
    Go for variety - try to not eat the same foods every day.
    Aim for eating at least one serving of each color of fruits and vegetables per day (green, red, orange, yellow, blue, purple).
    Eat organic meat, eggs, and produce whenever possible.
    Drink a total of 6 to 8 glasses of water per day, try adding fresh lemon juice or apple cider vinegar to your water.
    If you know you are allergic or have a sensitivity to any food, then please avoid that food.
    Avoid eating three hours before you go to bed.
    Do not overcook or blacken animal foods.
    Never heat oils to the smoking point.
    Be sure in include raw vegetables in your diet.
    Soak all grains, flours, legumes, nuts, and seeds, prior to cooking (See instructions below).
    Whole grains:
    1. To soak grains, place grain in a bowl and cover completely with filtered warm water.
    2. For every one cup of liquid, add 1 tsp of lemon juice or raw apple cider vinegar.
    3. Cover the bowl and soak for 12 to 24 hours at room temperature.
    4. Buckwheat, brown rice, and millet should be soaked for 8 hours.
    5. When done soaking, drain the water and cook normally.
    Flour:
    1. To soak flour to use in your recipes, add the liquids from the recipe (water, oil etc) and flour together.
    2. For every one cup of liquid, add 1 tsp of lemon juice or raw apple cider vinegar.
    3. Cover and allow to soak for 8 hours.
    4. When finished soaking, proceed with the normal recipe.
    5. If making yeast bread, reserve 1/2 cup water to dissolve yeast and use rest of liquids for soaking.
    Legumes:
    1. Put legumes in a bowl, and add enough water to cover them.
    2. Add a pinch of baking soda.
    3. Soak at room temperature for 12 to 24 hours, while changing the water and baking soda at least once.
    4. Rinse and cook normally.
    1. Put raw nuts in a bowl and cover with warm water.
    2. Add a tbsp of sea salt.
    3. Soak at room temperature for 7 to 8 hours.
    4. Drain nuts and spread on a cookie sheet.
    5. Dry in oven at lowest temperature for 12 to 24 hours until completely dry.

    When it says to eat the green foods and avoid the red ones, just look at the bulletproof road map and you will get the same results. Shockingly, it told me to avoid processed meats. Duh!

    Someone please tell me that I haven't wasted my money. I know you will be lying but hopefully it will make me feel better.

    I will be canceling this service and don't recommend it to anyone.

    @418Auburnman said:
    So I finally got the results today. I attached screenshots of the results in the app.

    The graphs are pretty neat, but very disappointed in their recommendations. Although honestly, I'm not really sure how to read the graphs!

    But I had hope - the app said detailed results are on your account. So I went there and here it is:

    These are your baseline diet recommendations.
    You will benefit from a diet that emphasizes complex carbohydrates and is lower in heavy proteins and fats in order to balance your body’s energy production and feed your microbiome.
    At each meal or over the day, you should aim for the following ratio of macronutrients as a percentage of calories:
    Protein – 25% to 30%
    Fats – 20% to 30%
    Carbohydrates – 40% to 55%
    Remember that most protein foods contain some fat, so pay attention to your ratio of protein and carbohydrate.
    Eat until you are comfortably satiated or 80% full. If you find yourself over-eating or craving food, you should adjust your macronutrient ratios. For example, if you start to crave sweets, increase the amount of protein in your previous meal or snack.
    Monitor how you feel, including your hunger, energy level, and mood one to three hours after eating. If you feel worse in any of these areas, you will need to adjust your ratios at the next meal. You can range from 40% to 55% carbohydrate and 20% to 30% fat and protein.
    You should eat three meals a day, and snack as needed. However, you will likely not need to snack in between meals.
    If you are very active or under a significant amount of stress you will likely need to adjust to the higher end of protein and fat ratio for that day.
    Enjoy the foods listed in green, eat the foods listed in yellow, but in moderation, and avoid the foods listed in red.
    Emphasize non-starchy vegetables as your main source of carbohydrates. You can add fruits, whole grains, and starchy vegetables as a portion of your carbohydrate intake.
    Go for variety - try to not eat the same foods every day.
    Aim for eating at least one serving of each color of fruits and vegetables per day (green, red, orange, yellow, blue, purple).
    Eat organic meat, eggs, and produce whenever possible.
    Drink a total of 6 to 8 glasses of water per day, try adding fresh lemon juice or apple cider vinegar to your water.
    If you know you are allergic or have a sensitivity to any food, then please avoid that food.
    Avoid eating three hours before you go to bed.
    Do not overcook or blacken animal foods.
    Never heat oils to the smoking point.
    Be sure in include raw vegetables in your diet.
    Soak all grains, flours, legumes, nuts, and seeds, prior to cooking (See instructions below).
    Whole grains:
    1. To soak grains, place grain in a bowl and cover completely with filtered warm water.
    2. For every one cup of liquid, add 1 tsp of lemon juice or raw apple cider vinegar.
    3. Cover the bowl and soak for 12 to 24 hours at room temperature.
    4. Buckwheat, brown rice, and millet should be soaked for 8 hours.
    5. When done soaking, drain the water and cook normally.
    Flour:
    1. To soak flour to use in your recipes, add the liquids from the recipe (water, oil etc) and flour together.
    2. For every one cup of liquid, add 1 tsp of lemon juice or raw apple cider vinegar.
    3. Cover and allow to soak for 8 hours.
    4. When finished soaking, proceed with the normal recipe.
    5. If making yeast bread, reserve 1/2 cup water to dissolve yeast and use rest of liquids for soaking.
    Legumes:
    1. Put legumes in a bowl, and add enough water to cover them.
    2. Add a pinch of baking soda.
    3. Soak at room temperature for 12 to 24 hours, while changing the water and baking soda at least once.
    4. Rinse and cook normally.
    1. Put raw nuts in a bowl and cover with warm water.
    2. Add a tbsp of sea salt.
    3. Soak at room temperature for 7 to 8 hours.
    4. Drain nuts and spread on a cookie sheet.
    5. Dry in oven at lowest temperature for 12 to 24 hours until completely dry.

    When it says to eat the green foods and avoid the red ones, just look at the bulletproof road map and you will get the same results. Shockingly, it told me to avoid processed meats. Duh!

    Someone please tell me that I haven't wasted my money. I know you will be lying but hopefully it will make me feel better.

    I will be canceling this service and don't recommend it to anyone.

  • Wow, did I get duped...$99/ month in a scam noncancellabke contract with results that basically say eat your veggies and cut down on the beer and pizza!,, ! Holly Molly.

    Congrats to the slick marketing campaign...but viome is nothing more than common sense with graphs.

  • I am disappointed in my recommendations so far. I will say that they recommended a different ratio: Proteins (grass-fed or wild game red meats, fowl, small ocean fish or freshwater fish (no shellfish)): 40%
    Fats (avocado, coconut, olives, olive/grapeseed oils, ghee): 30%
    Complex Carbohydrates (mainly vegetables, some fruit, and rice): 30%
    Also, they recommended mostly foods that I am not currently eating much of. I normally eat a ketogenic diet with dairy. I try to rotate my proteins but I eat bacon, grass-fed red meat, pork, eggs. These are a no go for the next few weeks according to their recommendations. This does make sense. I have done the elimination diet and others so, I may do this. I am feeling a little bummed by the cost versus the information and recommendations. I am hoping I will get more info.

  • My wife did Viome and it was a total waste of time and money. The recommendations were very generic - i.e. eat lots of complex carbs- mostly vegetables and limited amounts of lean protein and good fats. Eat Amaranthan (!); minimize bulgur and oats, etc. Avoid beef, dairy, lard, sugar, etc. You could go to any article on a healthy diet and get more realistic/actionable info than you do by spending $500 and waiting 2 months for their results. Based on this and Jain's past history, my opinion is that Viome looks like a snake oil scam. Save your money and just eat a healthy, varied diet.

  • I just signed up for Viome and I did it, not so much for their recommendations, but mostly for their test results. I have been using GI Map testing (DNA Stool test) from Diagnostic Solutions and they recently increased their prices from 400 to 540 so I thought Viome will show what's in my gut for less. Did you get any such results related to parasites, fungi, bacteria etc.?

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