On Bp Intermitent Fasting

I was thinking, I'm getting good results on the BP Intermittent Fasting, I started about 5 weeks ago and lost about 4kg (8lbs), but Id like to speed it up a little more.



Would cutting the amount of Butter in the BPC help with Fat burn, as my body will have to switch to body fat sooner?



Or how about just having coffee with MCT Oil. As MCT oil is supposed to push you into ketosis I could be burning fat straight away from morning to when I break the fast.



Anyone experimented with this?





Cheers



G
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Comments

  • Hey mate



    Yes - I 've tried this.



    Started with 70g of butter and now down to 30g. I did this gradually and still feel full for the same amount of time so I guess my body is using more bodyfat.



    I did try dropping the butter completely but I got too damn hungry!



    Let me know how you get on bud.
  • Cool,



    I've just dropped my butter/ghee from 50g to 25g.



    So I'll see how my body reacts over the next couple weeks, its been 4 hours and I'm feeling pretty much the same as when I have the 50g, I usually get hungry around 1pm with the 50g so well see what happens in an hour.



    Ill keep this updated.



    Cheers





    G
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  • Hey mate



    Just a quick update.



    I follow a ketogenic diet for five days and then have a carb re-feed on day 6 (which takes me out of ketosis).



    I've noticed that it takes me much longer to get back in to ketosis now that I have dropped the quantity of butter in my BPC (I have a blood monitor which measures my ketones).



    I am therefore going to increase my butter consumption at the beginning of the week and then taper it off as I get into ketosis.



    I'll keep checking my bloods and see what happens.



    Hope you're getting on well.



    Cheers



    Paul
  • 'Paul wrote:


    Hey mate



    Just a quick update.



    I follow a ketogenic diet for five days and then have a carb re-feed on day 6 (which takes me out of ketosis).



    I've noticed that it takes me much longer to get back in to ketosis now that I have dropped the quantity of butter in my BPC (I have a blood monitor which measures my ketones).



    I am therefore going to increase my butter consumption at the beginning of the week and then taper it off as I get into ketosis.



    I'll keep checking my bloods and see what happens.



    Hope you're getting on well.



    Cheers



    Paul




    Whats this blood monitor, you got a link?



    Today I had the Usual MCT Coffe and 25g of Ghee.



    I rode my bike to work instead of my usual public transport to get ready to avoid the London Olympic carnage, I think if I'm gonna ride the bike I might need to hit some more MCT and at least butter when I get to work to give me a little energy kick, I feel my head is a bit funny, I'm not sure if its due to the bike ride rush, or low energy, I took some caffeine when I got to work as well so it might be that?



    Ill test out tomorrow with MCT at work and some butter.



    Cheers



    G
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  • 'Goran wrote:


    Whats this blood monitor, you got a link?



    Today I had the Usual MCT Coffe and 25g of Ghee.



    I rode my bike to work instead of my usual public transport to get ready to avoid the London Olympic carnage, I think if I'm gonna ride the bike I might need to hit some more MCT and at least butter when I get to work to give me a little energy kick, I feel my head is a bit funny, I'm not sure if its due to the bike ride rush, or low energy, I took some caffeine when I got to work as well so it might be that?



    Ill test out tomorrow with MCT at work and some butter.



    Cheers



    G




    Its been 8 hours since I got in the office this morning after my bike ride, and my head is fine, i guess the funny feeling was the rush from the bike, my energy levels have not been low at all!



    Willl keep up with the 25g of ghee in my bulletproof coffee!
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  • Have you not eaten anything all day then?



    You can get the blood monitor from http://www.simplicityhealth.co.uk/blood-glucose-monitor-optium.asp. It's only £15 and comes with 10 lancets and 10 glucose test strips. However, you have to buy the ketone test strips separately and they're expensive - about £30 for ten strips (unless you have a diabetic friend who can get them free on prescription!).



    Alternatively you can get some Ketostix which you pee on, but they're not as accurate http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ketostix-Reagent-Strips-Ketone-strips/dp/B000V3IV3O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343070603&sr=8-1. Much cheaper though - 50 test strips for £5.



    Laters



    Paul
  • 'Paul wrote:


    Have you not eaten anything all day then?



    You can get the blood monitor from http://www.simplicit...itor-optium.asp. It's only £15 and comes with 10 lancets and 10 glucose test strips. However, you have to buy the ketone test strips separately and they're expensive - about £30 for ten strips (unless you have a diabetic friend who can get them free on prescription!).



    Alternatively you can get some Ketostix which you pee on, but they're not as accurate http://www.amazon.co...43070603&sr=8-1. Much cheaper though - 50 test strips for £5.



    Laters



    Paul






    I eat the BPC in the morning around 8am with the MCT and 25g Ghee, then I don't eat anything till the evening around 7-8pm where I eat primal/paleo style, throw in a100g Ghee Proteinshake at some point, had BBQ last night cos of the awesome weather, will probably be having BBQ tonight as well.



    Been doing this for about 6 weeks now including fasted workouts and I've been getting good results, initially lost 4kg from (I had been bulking and gained a lot of fat) and now I'm not loosing weight as fast, I believe my muscle gain and fat loss have balanced each other in speed as I'm getting cut but weighing the same!
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  • Glad you're getting some good results. Do you have any idea of how many calories you consume each day?



    If I don't eat until the evening, apart from being ravenous, I would struggle to consume enough calories in my evening meal. For my current bodyweight, my daily maintenance calories should be about 3100. I probably only manage about 2500. My BPC is about 450 calories so I would then have to consume at least 2000 calories in my evening meal.



    I'm beginning to wonder whether to continue with the intermittent fasting or not. I train really hard with heavy weight and when I wake up in the morning, it just doesn't seem right that I'm not feeding my muscles straight away. I know that fasting increases growth hormone levels but still feel like I am inhibiting protein synthesis for the whole day.
  • Hi Paul,


    'Paul wrote:




    I'm beginning to wonder whether to continue with the intermittent fasting or not. I train really hard with heavy weight and when I wake up in the morning, it just doesn't seem right that I'm not feeding my muscles straight away. I know that fasting increases growth hormone levels but still feel like I am inhibiting protein synthesis for the whole day.


    Look into Carb Back-Loading by John Kiefer. Kiefer participated in a podcast not too long ago. I believe that diet/weight-lifting regimen would fit in nicely with your intermittent fasting. He explains all of the science when you should work out, when you should not eat, eat Paleo, and then eat simple carbs. I haven't started it yet, but I've seen a lot of positive reviews from serious bodybuilders in various forums.
  • 'Paul wrote:


    Glad you're getting some good results. Do you have any idea of how many calories you consume each day?



    If I don't eat until the evening, apart from being ravenous, I would struggle to consume enough calories in my evening meal. For my current bodyweight, my daily maintenance calories should be about 3100. I probably only manage about 2500. My BPC is about 450 calories so I would then have to consume at least 2000 calories in my evening meal.



    I'm beginning to wonder whether to continue with the intermittent fasting or not. I train really hard with heavy weight and when I wake up in the morning, it just doesn't seem right that I'm not feeding my muscles straight away. I know that fasting increases growth hormone levels but still feel like I am inhibiting protein synthesis for the whole day.






    Yes I agree, its really hard to eat a lot in the evening, I feel I am overeating at times! My estimates on calories is about 1500 - 2000, I know my maintenance for my height and body weight is somewhere around 3000 (estimate).



    Breakdown: BPC in the morn (250-400 Cal), eat nothing till the evening, at around 7pm I hit a protein shake with 100g Ghee and 40g Protein about (1000 Cal), Eat dinner whatever it is about 300-500 cals probably, then I sometimes hit another 50g Ghee and 40g protein shake before bed (500 cal), this one can tip me over the edge, I've had to get up out of bed and hurl a couple times as my stomach has shrunk over the last 5 weeks and I couldn't keep it down annoyingly.



    But I figure during my fast I'm burning body fat for fuel, and that's gotta be at least 500 cals if not more through out the day right?



    I don't really feel hungry even when I'm ready to break the fast, it seems my body totally gets into the rhythm of body fat usage, even after riding the bike for 30 minutes (at a relaxed pace) to and back from work.



    I assume to burn fat you need to consume an insufficiency amount of calories which your body fat will cover

    (fat burn), there's no point of consuming my maintenance level of calories orally if I want to burn body fat. (Is my thinking correct here?)



    The only reason Im really doing the IF is to cut down my Body Fat Percentage, as soon as I am happy with it, I will be stopping the IF or shortening the IF window making the eating windown bigger so I can consume an influx of calories for muscle build but keep the benifit of fasting for the growth hormone, since I cannot workout till about 7-8pm, I might break the fast in the morn with a BPC Protein shake, start fasting at noon with a bit of Ghee and MCT to kick me off and eat again after workout.
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  • Sounds like a plan. And yes, I agree, it seems counterintuitive to consume your maintnenance level of calories whn you are trying to burn body fat. I normally leave a deficit of 600 calories and hope that I burn body fat (rather than muscle!). What body fat percentage are you hoping to reach - how are you measuring it?



    And thanks DRD224 - I'm going to look in to the carb back loading thing. I don't like my muscles being flat all the time due to the lack of glycogen.
  • Interesting thread guys. Out of interest, are you guys still trying to lose a lot of fat?

    I'm going to do my second Rapid Fat Loss Protocol tomorrow, hope I can make another 5 days. Then again, I might soon switch to a ketogenic diet with weekly carb refeeds, as Paul does. About 10kg to lose here and I'll soon need to see what works for me in terms of exercise (currently just doing sprints once a week and kettlebells twice a week) and putting on muscle.
  • 'Paul wrote:


    Sounds like a plan. And yes, I agree, it seems counterintuitive to consume your maintnenance level of calories whn you are trying to burn body fat. I normally leave a deficit of 600 calories and hope that I burn body fat (rather than muscle!). What body fat percentage are you hoping to reach - how are you measuring it?



    And thanks DRD224 - I'm going to look in to the carb back loading thing. I don't like my muscles being flat all the time due to the lack of glycogen.




    I've been thinking of looking into that myself as well, looks interesting.






    Interesting thread guys. Out of interest, are you guys still trying to lose a lot of fat?

    I'm going to do my second Rapid Fat Loss Protocol tomorrow, hope I can make another 5 days. Then again, I might soon switch to a ketogenic diet with weekly carb refeeds, as Paul does. About 10kg to lose here and I'll soon need to see what works for me in terms of exercise (currently just doing sprints once a week and kettlebells twice a week) and putting on muscle.




    Ive been trying to loose fat for the past 6-7 weeks, lost 4 kg, I don't have much left to loose any more so I think I'm gonna go into bulking in August for a few months then switch back to fat loss again.



    Ill probably still be doing some form of IF but something that allows me to consume more calories and protein, Ill be using the IF just to produce the growth hormone increase Leangains style, incorporating carb re-feed on a non workout day. Still gotta sit down and work out an eating schedule as I can only work out in the evenings. My workout is pretty much based on musclehack.com / Body By Science style, Ive had great results on this!
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  • Cheers for the musclehack link G; just downloaded the THT e-book, I'll give it a read.
  • Does anyone know the location of the podcast with the guy that talks about carb refeed?
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  • Hey Goran,



    Here's the podcast:



    » Podcast #19: Carb Back-Loading with John Kiefer The Bulletproof Executive

    http://www.bulletproofexec.com/podcast-19-carb-back-loading-with-john-keifer/



    I've purchased Kiefer's ebook and have already read it. The science in there on how to manipulate the body's reaction to insulin throughout the day is fascinating. I've done Ferriss's Occam's Protocol and put on almost 20lbs in six weeks while greatly improving strength, however I also put on body fat. Now I understand why I added both muscle and fat from Ferriss's regimen.



    I haven't begun the back loading yet as I don't know whether I want to do strength accumulation or density bulking. I'm tending toward the latter, yet he says you'll put on 10-20% body weight in the form of muscle. I'm a little hesitant to go from my current 170lbs to 190lbs as I may need a lot of new clothes.



    The other concern I have is being BulletProof while on Kiefer's regimen. He basically advocates no breakfast but BulletProof Coffee, followed by a lunch consisting of high-quality protein and a ton of low-carb vegetables. You work out around 5 pm, followed by a shake consisting of whey isolate, hydrolyzed protein, leucine, and creatine. The former two proteins are no-nos for the BP diet, however Kiefer states that they increase muscle mass the quickest. After the shake you binge on high GI foods, e.g., donuts, sweet potatoes, pizza, ice cream, pie, etc. Sweet potatoes are probably fine, but everything else is not BP.



    In addition, I also want to try intermittent fasting but don't know how to incorporate my caloric and protein needs with density bulking into the IF regimen. I guess I'll have to experiment.

  • 'drd224' wrote:


    Hey Goran,



    Here's the podcast:



    » Podcast #19: Carb Back-Loading with John Kiefer The Bulletproof Executive

    http://www.bulletpro...th-john-keifer/



    I've purchased Kiefer's ebook and have already read it. The science in there on how to manipulate the body's reaction to insulin throughout the day is fascinating. I've done Ferriss's Occam's Protocol and put on almost 20lbs in six weeks while greatly improving strength, however I also put on body fat. Now I understand why I added both muscle and fat from Ferriss's regimen.



    I haven't begun the back loading yet as I don't know whether I want to do strength accumulation or density bulking. I'm tending toward the latter, yet he says you'll put on 10-20% body weight in the form of muscle. I'm a little hesitant to go from my current 170lbs to 190lbs as I may need a lot of new clothes.



    The other concern I have is being BulletProof while on Kiefer's regimen. He basically advocates no breakfast but BulletProof Coffee, followed by a lunch consisting of high-quality protein and a ton of low-carb vegetables. You work out around 5 pm, followed by a shake consisting of whey isolate, hydrolyzed protein, leucine, and creatine. The former two proteins are no-nos for the BP diet, however Kiefer states that they increase muscle mass the quickest. After the shake you binge on high GI foods, e.g., donuts, sweet potatoes, pizza, ice cream, pie, etc. Sweet potatoes are probably fine, but everything else is not BP.



    In addition, I also want to try intermittent fasting but don't know how to incorporate my caloric and protein needs with density bulking into the IF regimen. I guess I'll have to experiment.




    Cheers for the link!



    Ill be bulking again mid Aug, and Im definitely thinking to do the Carb back loading, sticking to healthier carbs tho. I also want to keep the fasting atleast in the morning so Im trying to work out a good protocall.



    Im thinking on workout days:



    Morning: skip breakfast (only coffee + MCT, vitamins),



    12pm: eat (bulletproof) + protein+fat (at least 500 cals),



    3pm: eat (bulletproof) + protein+ fat +MCT (at least 500 cals)



    4pm - 8 pm : eat nothing until 8pm when I work out to try to induce a leangains fasted workout (hopefully the food would've digested by now!) ( I'll have some caffeine and BCAA prior to workout),



    9pm: Post workout shake + fat + Banana (bringing on the Carb Back Loading) (1000cals)



    9:30pm - 10pm : Eat Dinner, fats, protein and carbs (potatoes, rice),( at least 500 cals,)



    12pm: Hit another protein shake just protein and fat in this one no carbs (at least 500 cals)





    So ill be trying to incorporating fasting in the morning, then the bulletproof diet in the afternoon, then carb back loading in the evening, I estimate I will be consuming somewhere from 2500 to 300 cals on workout days, 2800 is my maintenance.



    On non workout days Ill probably be sticking to the normal bulletproof, no carbs all day: incorporating fasting, and bulletproof in the late afternoon.
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  • Ok some updates.



    I must've been about 17-20% body fat 8 weeks ago when I started IF, I lost about 8kg in the 8 weeks, Week 1 weight was 78.3kg, and a couple days ago when I checked I was down to 71.1kg.



    I also bought some Body Fat Callipers, these to be precise: Calipers They aren't 100% accurate but they're the best you can get. I did not take my first mesurement I did a few different calculations and worked out the average and my body fat percentage was down to 12.4%, I'm slightly leaner than normal before I was bulking up to 78kg, so I think my neutral bf is around 13-14%.



    The calculator I used to get all my results was from this website: http://www.linear-software.com/online.html



    I did my measurements on all 5 calliper calculators, and got the average of the 5, (one calculator gives a really high reading the 4th one from the left, so I did an average of all 5 calcs, then all 4 except the 4th one, and got the average of those two averages, lol confusing? lol)





    Ill be on holiday till the 12th, once I get back I'll be doing the bulking protocol from the "John Kiefer - Carb Back Loading" book to bulk up for a month, where I will again take measurements of my body fat and weight again and see how well I do, I think ill be measuring my muscle sizes as well.



    I will be keeping the carb loading as clean as possible, no gluten or grains except for rice. So ill mostly be back loading on white potatoes and rice, I don't want to eat too much crap!



    I will try to stick to his protocol as close as possible!
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  • Stop thinking so much about calories in terms of buring fat or building muscle.



    Eat quality foods that make you feel great, and train hard.



    For most people (especially those who worry so much about counting calories), it is the actual cutting of calories that stalls their fat loss or physique goals.



    Cutting calories and increasing cardio is not the best way to lean up. Increasing quality calories from good health sources, performing shorter bouts of more intense cardio, and lifting heavier weights is the best way to lean up.



    No you proably won't lean up if you consume some outrageous number of calories each day, but if you are cutting calories and not getting results, then go the opposite way and start adding in a few hundred calories more each day until your body and metabolism gets used to working efficiently.



    I fast, and spend all day in a warehouse gym training athletes and still manage to get my calories in.



    Here is a great example of what my daily food intake looks like - http://dclaiborne.com/my-daily-fat-hack-meal-plan/



    Hope that helps, and gives you a good idea of some tweaks you can make to your diet to help you get your physique going in the right direction.
  • 'Paul wrote:


    Hey mate



    Just a quick update.



    I follow a ketogenic diet for five days and then have a carb re-feed on day 6 (which takes me out of ketosis).



    I've noticed that it takes me much longer to get back in to ketosis now that I have dropped the quantity of butter in my BPC (I have a blood monitor which measures my ketones).



    I am therefore going to increase my butter consumption at the beginning of the week and then taper it off as I get into ketosis.






    Paul,

    Can you update us on your progress? I too am doing Keto 6 days and a re-feed weekly but i'm not sure i'm sold on how the reefed helps. I have at least 50 lbs to lose.
  • Ok Guys,



    I haven't updated this in a while, but I just took new Body Fat Measurements Last night and taught it was a good idea to update.



    Since coming back from holiday a month ago I have been doing Carb Back Loading ([font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif]John Kiefer Book[/font]).



    In general, I wake in the morning and have my Bulletproof coffee and Vitamins, at around 2 PM I have carb free lunch or a bulletproof Protein shake (Proteinshake with Butter), then If its a workout day I eat nothing again till before workout where I only have caffeine and 5g of BCAAs after the workout, after the workout I hit 100g Dextrose and a 40g Protein shake with about 5g of Creatine and 5g of BCAA. About an hour later I have my main meal, usually some sort of meat and some vegies, then about an hour later I have a rice puding made with milk, and before bed I hit another bulletproof proteinshake, with about 50g ghee/butter and 40g protein.



    I have noticed I have gained weight, about 1 kg in the last month, I am visually more toned/ripped and bigger when I look at myself in the mirror than I was a month ago.



    A month afo my Body Fat was 12.4%, Last night when I measured it was 11.4%, so I have lost 1% body fat while carb back loading!



    Ill be taking mesurements like this atleast once a month, and Updating monthly!
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