Is Exercise Neccesary For Building Muscle?

SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

I asked a bit about this in my other thread, but figured it an important enough question to warrant its own. We've all seen that pic of Dave with his shirt off, where he claims not to have exercised in over 2 years, and where he claims to have been eating 4000+ calories a day. I see no reason not to believe him, but I'm wondering, precisely, how this can be possible.


 


Is eating a 100% Bulletproof diet enough to see a physique like this one? Can one attain a similar physique with literally zero exercise, and if so, how? Can one gain muscle without ever picking up a dumbbell or doing a pushup? Curious about the science behind this.


"I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

 

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Comments

  • He was on testosterone at the time, so everything else he did is somewhat pointless.
  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

    I read that he was only on enough to bring him to normal levels, but yeah, supplemental test might call the whole thing into question.


    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

    Let's be friends on MyFitnessPal!

  • StevoStevo Upgrade in Progress

    Yeah he's explained that on a podcast somewhere, it was only to bring his T level back to what it should have been. 


  • the problem with that is what is normal. imo him being on test at all makes the whole experiment useless.
  • He was doing whole body vibration (WBV), right?  That's muscle-stimulation/exercise of a sort.


    He also had done several years of gym time when he was bigger, and probably had decent musculature under his 300 lb. frame.


    Anyone can have a six-pack, many crack-addicts do... but having a well-formed body with muscle everywhere... that's a different story.


    If you want to grow muscle, I'm very sure you need some growth-inciting trigger... whether that's mechanical (weights), or electrical stimulation, or some other bio-hack.... gotta' be something.


     


    Minimum effective dose for muscle maintenance and even potentially a bit of growth?  From what I've researched, about 30 minutes of high-intensity resistance training a week...


  • Yeah I don't think Dave built muscle here. I think he simply shedded his fat, so you could actually see his muscles.


     


    You certainly need a stimulus to grow muscle and more importantly you need a proper environment to maintain it once you have build it (aka, its not easy).


  • Testosterone augmentation by itself won't do much without some muscle growth trigger.  That said, enough testosterone and you don't need much of a trigger.  


     


    Back in the 1960's Olympic style weight lifters training with Bob Hoffman (York Barbell) took anabolic steroids and achieved tremendous and very fast muscle growth from doing a handful of isometric exercises.  Each exercise lasted only 12 seconds (of all out effort) for each exercise.  If I remember clearly, they would do 3 pulls, 3 squats, 3 presses, and 1 shoulder shrug.  As an example:


     


    3 pulls


    - low pull (starting dead lift position),


    - mid pull (around waist height)


    - high pull (chest level)


     


    They applied a similar approach to the squats and standing presses.


     


    Initially the did all of these against a fixed or locked-in bar.  10 exercises, at 12 seconds each, for a total work time of only 120 seconds.  I think they did this two or three times a week, then one day a week they would train with actual weights, primarily to develop technique and test their maximum performance.


     


    Also, other things like cold thermogenesis and maybe vibration can trigger muscle growth.


     


    ​Doug McGuff (Body by Science) has speculated that because muscle growth (after stimulation/dose) results from an expensive metabolic process, evolution would have favored preservation of existing muscle as much as possible.  Hard and expensive to build muscle.  Hard to lose.


     


    Still, maintenance of muscle clearly requires some level a metabolic activity/challenge.  Astronauts loose muscle mass in zero gravity.  Bed ridden patients loose muscle mass (although their bodies may have reallocated resources to attempt to repair/fix whatever afflicts them rather than preserving muscle).  Art DeVany proposes that outside of accident, death comes when people's muscle mass falls below some minimal level.


     


    Just some speculation, but the old Hoffman isometric methods seem pretty close to the minimum that can stimulate muscle growth.  Also, given that a BP diet, grass fed beef, and IF all boost testosterone (in men), such an approach might prove worth revisiting.


     


    Hmmm...?


  • This argument reminds me of what roid users say: you can't get big without exercising or you can't make a bulldog out of a chihuahua.  So I would say you could go on TRT or roids and not exercise and not eat properly and you would still get bigger but the results of doing everything right AND being genetically gifted will get you to a whole other level.  Look at Dwayne Johnson (the Rock) he clearly eats quite well, is on the juice(actually he is likely on HGH as he can afford it), exercises like a madman and is super genetically gifted.  Inversely you could to on TRT or HGH and you will still get some results even if you do nothing else which is basically what Dave did.  So if you think the results that Dave got are fine then you just need to do what he did: eat BP and go on TRT.


  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

    I never said Dave looked like Superman or that his was my goal body. Lol. In that picture he's simply got a decent baseline physique, IMO. I've got a bit of a gut left, and my muscle is pretty well hidden. I figure I'll aim for Dave Asprey mode and then go Dwayne Johnson mode (or as close as possible). I can't afford the gear he's on, and am probably not anywhere near as gifted, but I'm a pretty big dude and hope to build a scary, respectable physique someday.


     


    I appreciate the comments and advice in this thread. I'm still losing weight on BP, so this is good. My clothes are fitting better, my muscles are becoming better-defined and, though I'm still rather pudgy, I don't look like an utter fatass anymore. So that's good. I think that, once I introduce some BBS-style lifting, I'll be well on my way to Dave Asprey mode. I'm currently eating as BP as possible, doing high fat, moderately high protein and low carb. I work a desk job, so preserving muscle is a priority for me. I'm also doing IF. I usually eat my main meal at 6PM-- usually steak with veggies, and then around 10 I eat some nuts, 85% Lindt and a tin of sardines. The rest of the time I'm awake I'm sipping at a BP coffee with an increased amount of MCT and Kerrygold, along with a bit of 100% chocolate powder (unsweetened, of course). I consume half a brick of Kerrygold a day. not sure how much MCT oil I put in precisely; I've stopped measuring and can tell by sight alone how much I can handle without shitting myself. I reckon I'm consuming about 6 teaspoons of it a day. Maybe 8.


     


    Any thoughts or suggestions on this? Like I said, I'm still slimming down on this and I feel pretty great, especially mentally. I'm sure I could up the fat further, but I'm not sure if I ought to. Kerrygold is damn expensive around here at $4/bar lol. I plan on doing some basic stuff in the days to come to become more flexible and active; bodyweight squats, some BBS-style lifts, etc. The only concern is that my work schedule has been absolute hell as of late. For the foreseeable future I'll be working 16-hour shifts 5 days a week. I sleep pretty well, and the BPC/supplements I take seem to help me get through this all right. But it doesn't leave enough time to exercise much and, of course, if I exercise a great deal, I won't be getting enough sleep to properly recover. So it's kind of hard to dive into a BBS-style workout when I can't be ensured 8+ hours of sleep in the following days. Any suggestions on what kind of/how much activity I should do in my particular situation? Like I said, I work a desk job, 16 hours a day, and though I walk a bit and eat a BP diet, I think I need to do a bit of exercise to keep myself healthy. Just not so much that I can't recover from it on 5.5-6 hours of sleep per night.


     


    Current supplements are: 10-14,000 IU Vit. D3/day, K2 (100 mcg, I think), 1 gram of Rhodiola Rosea (I just started this. The bottle says to take 1-2 500mg capsules. Dose might be a little high, but I've experienced no ill effects so far and it SEEMS to be having a positive effect. Dunno for sure, might be placebo), Mag citrate and potassium citrate before bed, I take a B-100 complex twice a week also, and 1 gram of Vitamin C now and then. I also ordered a few grams of Shilajit. Looking forward to giving that a try.


     


    Thoughts? Criticisms? Advice?

    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

    Let's be friends on MyFitnessPal!

  • SkeletorSkeletor The Conqueror Worm ✭✭✭

    Sleep is certainly important. No argument there. So long as I take my supps and get my BPC daily, I feel pretty decent on ~6 hours of sleep. But exercising heavily on that amount of sleep probably isn't wise, right?


     


    Is 6 hours too little, especially if everything else is pretty good?


    "I know how to despise mere cool intelligence. What I want is intelligence matched by pure, physical existence, like a statue." --Yukio Mishima

     

    Let's be friends on MyFitnessPal!



  • right now he's using electricity only for adding muscle right now




     


    I heard this on the podcast and I'm curious, anybody know what type/form/product he's using for this electrical stimulation that he says is building muscle?


     


    I think in the last two podcasts - or the last two I've seen, anyway - he rolls up his sleeve and shows his biceps and says he's surprised how the electrical stimulation is significantly building his muscles, in particular his biceps.



  • Sleep is certainly important. No argument there. So long as I take my supps and get my BPC daily, I feel pretty decent on ~6 hours of sleep. But exercising heavily on that amount of sleep probably isn't wise, right?


     


    Is 6 hours too little, especially if everything else is pretty good?




     


     


    For me it would be. I need 7-8 hours to feel fully rested when i'm just doing capoeira/yoga/hiking/drumming (vigorous but not very high intensity). I've been getting 8.5-9 hours since starting BBS, and definitely feel like i've needed it. Strange how 12 minutes can make you need more sleep the rest of the week. 

  • Intermittent Fasting will cost you muscle.  Kiefer (of http://body.io/ and  Carb BackLoading and Carb Nite) argues that more than 12 hours of fast will start to cost you muscle... there's some potential muscle-preservation via nicotine and creatine use, even with IF.  But introducing some protein and fat at 12 hours is probably necessary for optimal muscle, even 10g of protein every few hours and some fat.


  • hybridhybrid Cateye vs Isolation

    shut-up-and-squat.jpg

  • hybridhybrid Cateye vs Isolation

    Do you even lift?




  • Intermittent Fasting will cost you muscle.  Kiefer (of http://body.io/ and  Carb BackLoading and Carb Nite) argues that more than 12 hours of fast will start to cost you muscle... there's some potential muscle-preservation via nicotine and creatine use, even with IF.  But introducing some protein and fat at 12 hours is probably necessary for optimal muscle, even 10g of protein every few hours and some fat.




     


    Muscle atrophy doesn't begin for 4 weeks...IF does not directly cost you muscle. But it's harder to cram all those calories and macros in a smaller eating window, thats the real culprit. 

  • Hi All,


     


    I'm a newbie and hopefully this post is vaguely on topic. 


     


    I've just turned 40 and have been looking for an exercise routine which is quick, develops and maintains a relatively muscular body and does not lead me to come muscle bound - in the sense of loads of different muscles firing to unnecessarily to perform a simple task. I'm also finding the recovery period of lifting heavy weights is hindering my focus at work.


     


    So I've been trying an exercise routine re-discovered by David Bolton  (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Lost-Secret-Great-Body-ebook/dp/B008C2MRUO). Its basically the routine performed by Eugen Sandow (moustachioed, fig leaf over privates old style muscle man) and many others of that era. It involves a repetitive pump of specific muscles using 2 kg dumbbells as a focusing tool. As much importance is given to relaxation as well as tension. Over the past month my muscles have changed in quality, more relaxed yet slightly rubbery and gradually putting on some mass, although the IF counters this slightly. All in all I feel great physically doing this, no post work out fatigue and feel a lot more relaxed and body aware during the day.


     


    David concludes that this type of training may have originated in ancient Greece and its interesting to note that the pictures of Eugen Sandow look more like the Greek athletic statues than modern day body builders.

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