Dr Kate And K2

I just finished podcast 106...awesome info for everyone! Wondering if anyone knows a good form of k2 that Dave or Kate may have been referring to using with children who cannot swallow pills! I have been using life extension for myself but cannot find one in powder liquid or something my 4 yr old can take. Ideas? Brands?

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  • Thorne makes a liquid k2, but I think it's only mk4 and not mk7.
  • Open a capsule and taste it.  It might not have much flavor and then I would add it to some cold food or drink. 


  • Yeah I'll open one. I wasn't sure cause the capsule for life extensions seems so thick...maybe the vitamins were imbedded in it too.

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  • No point in opening up a capsule....the dose is WAY too high.


     


    Found this one that maybe she could chew or I could open...the thorne is also way too high in dose at 1mg a drop!!! Thorne recomments 15mg 1-3 times a day! YIKES.


    http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-MK-7-Vitamin-K2-as-MK-7-90-mcg-60-Softgels/256#p=1&oos=0&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=k2%20mk-%207&rc=154&sr=null&ic=1


     


    trying to get an mk7 form since it isnt synthetic.


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  • I agree - awesome podcast.


     


    My dentist said people with gluten & yeast allergies (like me) have terrible teeth. Now I'm wondering if gluten and/or yeast allergy can block or deplete K2 and that's why my teeth suck so bad. So many things to research...


     




    I just finished podcast 106...awesome info for everyone! Wondering if anyone knows a good form of k2 that Dave or Kate may have been referring to using with children who cannot swallow pills! I have been using life extension for myself but cannot find one in powder liquid or something my 4 yr old can take. Ideas? Brands?



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  • What is a good dose for kids? What about the life extension dose less frequently?

  • http://www.bulletproofexec.com/optimize-your-supplements/


     



     


    Adult Dose: 2,000mcg / day (300-400mcg MK-7 form)


    Children’s Dose: 180mcg/ day


    Forms: MK-4 and MK-7


    Time Taken: Doesn’t really matter, but it’s best to take this with vitamin D, so morning is best.


    Recommended Brand: Life Extension


     

  • NoogisNoogis
    edited March 2014

    This article says that children could require even more than adults.


    http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2#foods


     


    "Question: How much K2 is recommended for adults and for children?


    Answer: Unfortunately we do not have any solid numbers on the optimal or minimum intake of K vitamins, neither from modern scientific analysis nor from what people consumed in optimal traditional diets. However, we do know that virtually all adults have some degree of deficiency, whether this is very small or very substantial, and a recent study suggests that children are much more likely to be deficient, so children may actually need more because they are growing. The best thing to do would be to eat from the foods richest in vitamin K2: natto, cheese or goose liver, at least once a week and to eat from the other relatively rich foods—grass-fed butter, animal fats and fermented foods—on a daily basis. If you choose to take any of the supplements listed in the article in addition to this, there is currently no reason to believe that it is necessary to take more than the minimum dose (one drop of Thorne or one capsule of Jarrow). In the years ahead, we should see much more definitive information coming out on this, and hopefully we will also see some research reopen the questions that Price had raised about the agricultural practices that lead to the highest levels of Activator X in foods."


     


    ​I don't think anyone knows  currently what the appropriate doses are. There seems to be no known toxicity.


     


    I just opened a Life Extension gel, and its full of oily liquid. I need to figure out how to dose this for a 5 year old. Maybe I could pierce the end, and squeeze our %20? Storing an opened gel for 5 days would be a hassle. Its probably similar to the thorne drops, so I don't think it would "go bad" in that time.


     


    ​I suppose that another option would be the 90mcg mk-7 by jarrow, and relying on GF butter for adequate mk-4?


     


    this was in another article:


    "However, the problem is that while MK-4 in food like grassfed butter, high vitamin butter oil, and pastured egg yolks is real and ideal, the MK-4 contained in supplements is synthetic. Let me say that again. The MK-4 in supplements is not the same MK-4 as found in grassfed butter.  The MK-4 in supplements is not derived from grassfed dairy as this would be prohibitively expensive.  Rather, it is made from the extract of the tobacco plant.


    Another big downside of MK-4 supplements is that this synthetic form of MK-4 does not remain in therapeutic levels in the blood for very long – only a few hours.  As a result, to maintain useful levels of synthetic MK-4 in the blood throughout the day, periodic dosing every few hours is required. Consequently, I take a Vitamin K2 supplement derived from natto (nonGMO soybeans) instead, which is the form of Vitamin K2 known as MK-7 as this is the same K2 you would get if you actually ate natto, which most folks find highly unpalatable. Another plus is that MK-7 stays in therapeutic doses in the blood much longer than synthetic MK-4.   As a result, a once a day supplement of MK-7 is sufficient to supplement the natural MK-4 that one is getting from a diet high in grassfed dairy and other sacred foods." - See more at: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/which-vitamin-k2-supplement-is-best-mk-4-or-mk-7/#sthash.UODU1T7W.dpuf


     


    So if mk4 in the LEF gels don't remain active for long, I don't see how you could dose too much.


  • Has anyone completely defied dental sensitivity thanks to K2?


    IF we have enough evidence regarding the former statement I'd say that a rule of thumb for "enough" daily K2 would be to get just the minimum effective dose for dental sensitivities to disappear.



    I've reduced a LOT my sensitivities (I'm doing only 1 LEF K complex a day and my diet doesn't include gf butter) but I still have them a bit.

    Any feedback?


  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭

    Yeah that's what I take, but K2 MK7 content is only 200mcg, not the 300-400 suggested, so eat your GF butter. 


     


    I'm not sure I want to take two of those caps, because I don't want to double the K1 content. 


  • So in the podcast, they said that ghee and butter oil are the same. So what's the difference between the $8 jar of ghee, and the $50 jar of butter oil?
  • I don't think they said it was the same thing...I think they skirted the subject maybe because they weren't sure. I would assume they are the same...don't know.


     


    Also...that K2 is the one I take and the total dose of K2 is more than a child could handle. I just found a powder K2 MK7 that I can dump into a drink for my 4 year old and it has a dose of 100mcg. Nice! $15 and it will last me 2 months. I remember her saying for older children into preteen/adolescents that she would double the dose for her own. 


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  • Gotcha.

    I have been poking a hole in the lef k2 and squeezing out a drop for him, it's generally 15% of the contents. then taking the rest myself. It tastes pretty bad.

    Trying to see if I can just use ghee or high vitamin butter oil.


    I don't think they said it was the same thing...I think they skirted the subject maybe because they weren't sure. I would assume they are the same...don't know.


    Also...that K2 is the one I take and the total dose of K2 is more than a child could handle. I just found a powder K2 MK7 that I can dump into a drink for my 4 year old and it has a dose of 100mcg. Nice! $15 and it will last me 2 months. I remember her saying for older children into preteen/adolescents that she would double the dose for her own.

  • edited March 2014

    I think I missed this point about K1. Do we actually know K1 toxicity levels?


     




    I'm not sure I want to take two of those caps, because I don't want to double the K1 content. 





     


  • Podcast 106 gone? Temporary glitch? I wanted to listen to it again, but I'm unable to find it.


  • yeah i just noticed that too. it is still up on youtube/facebook: 


     


    maybe dave didn't like her recommendations for wine and  cheese? 


  • http://bulletproofexecradio.com/106-the-powers-of-vitamin-k2-with-dr-kate-rhaume-bleue

    Seems to be available in mp3 for download. Probably just a glitch.
  • Yep, I also found it on youtube email link that had podcast 107


  • ACH85ACH85 ✭✭
    edited March 2014


    I think I missed this point about K1. Do we actually know K1 toxicity levels?




     


    ---


     


    I do not know K1 toxicity levels. The discussion is at 32 minutes (linked.) But K1 is involved in blood clotting, we recycle it, and we generally get enough of it. So my feeling is why take a large amount given that information?


     


    Further, some people have issues with blood clotting and take Warfarin, which inhibits vitamin K epoxide reductase, the enzyme that recycles vitamin K after it's been used for clotting purposes. If some people need to reduce K1, I don't want to megadose on it. 


     


    According to Wikipedia, there is no known toxicity for vitamin K and therefore no upper limit set. However the next sentence says large doses of K2 were tested in some blood clotting studies, not K1, which is kind of silly. 


     


    Long story short, I'm confident I have enough K1, and want more K2, so I'm not going to megadose on a mixed K1/K2 supplement to get my K2. Even though it's probably fine. 


  • langdjlangdj
    edited March 2014

    I take the Calton Nutrience. They have K1 and K2, they are such a well researched vitamin. Every time I hear a podcast or read an article from a trusted source I look at there ingredients and come back impressed.


     


    Unless, l I learn something else about vitamins I feel I only need the Nutrience, HCL, Fish Oil, BP Coffee / Whey and MSM (sulfur) while sprinkling some herbs  here and there.


  • So back to the Kids dose. If I recall from the podcast, mk4 and mk7 absorb differently. If I get the jarrow 90mcg mk7, would I get my kid 2 of those? or is the recommended dose for mk4? I am leaning towards some mk7, and then just regular portions of the usual quality food.


  • BUTTER OIL vs GHEE: Ghee requires heat, and butter oil is made with no heat - with a centrifuge.


     


    http://blog.radiantlifecatalog.com/bid/56184/Butter-Ghee-Butter-Oil-Clarified


     


    The Green Pasture people (who make butter oil) claim that heat destroys some of the goodies (obvs not K2).  It may be more concentrated than ghee, I'm not sure. FYI somebody posting on another site noted that Green Pasture's Butter Oil does not say "unpasturized" so it may actually be made with milk that was already heated. Don't know who else makes it. 




  • ---


     


    I do not know K1 toxicity levels. The discussion is at 32 minutes (linked.) But K1 is involved in blood clotting, we recycle it, and we generally get enough of it. So my feeling is why take a large amount given that information?


     





    Some supplements have decreased clotting as a drawback(e.g. krill oil/fish oil, vitamin E); I would consider taking more or less K1 thinking about those too.


    ACH85, I thank you because you brought up a very interesting point.

  • Finally was able to listen to this podcast today on the way home from work. Really good one. 


  • Noogis ... Yes give two if the narrow. Here at home I just found a k2, mk7 by preferred nutrition in 100mcg does and it's a powder capsule. I empty 1 1/2 into some coconut yogurt or Choco avo pudding with a probiotic and she takes it in two spoonfuls. MK 7 has a longer half life I believe so it stays with us longer so out body can use it. I also get her to take her multi at the same time because of the vit d and cod liver oil in it(its a good multi, natural calm brand)

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  • One idea if you're trying to get a smaller, sort-of-measured dose for kids out of a capsule is mix it with a liquid as evenly as possible (blend?) then measure out that liquid.

    Men are undoubtedly more in danger from prosperity than adversity.  For when matters go smoothly, they flatter themselves, and are intoxicated by their success.  ~John Calvin

     

     

  • Danno RedDanno Red Practical Man

    How much K2 (and what form?) does Kerrygold typically have?


  • Pure encapsulations has a liquid vit k2/d3 formulation.


    1000IU d3 and 50mcg k2 (mk7) per 1 ml. I use this for my kids.


    Pure encapsulations is via a doctor or other licensed HCP only though.


    Twin labs has a chewable d3/k2 (mk7) about the same dose per chewable if I remember right but it's not the purest re: the inactive ingredients.
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